Bad Flash - dead ATI card anyone know how to fix it?

[john]

Heres the whole idiotic story.

I was swapping two 9600s the other night I have in two of my extra
PCs. One is a flashable 9600 Pro/Xt the other is a 9600 nonpro.

Well I forgot that I had put the 9600 in my compaq and DUHHHHHHH which
usually has the Pro which everyione says is really an XT which I flash
to an XT. I saw 9600 in ATI tools when I was testing it and for some
bizarre reason I thought it had reverted back to even lower 9600
status. Yup moronic.

So I decide to reflash it to XT level and of course it promptly now
shows up dead. It was then of course I remember DUHHHHHH I swapped the
cards. I thnk it may have been one of the dumbest things Ive ever
done. I have a really bad headache now so Im using that as an excuse.


Anyway how to fix?

I have builtin graohics in the compaq but with the ATI in it - it goes
to the ATI first. Im think I could boot up then put the ATI in but Im
concerned that putting a graphics card in after its powered up may
damage something. The other is - will WINFLASH find a card thats not
being used?

 

[john]

Anyway how to fix?

I might try buying a cheapo ancient PCI card. Thats the usual way to
fix but of course Id like to avoid that.

Anyone know a way to force the onboard video on while the AGP slot is
occupied?

 

[Boba & Ilinka]

Try to see if you could do it in bios.

Boba Vancouver

 

[john]

Try to see if you could do it in bios.

Boba Vancouver

I wish you could do it in bios. They should make that mandatory.

Unfortunately all there is like many boards is a ONBOARDVIDEO/AGP
---YES or NO. I assume they mean onboard and AGP OR PCI.

I guess Ill look for one on EBAY for 10-15 bucks. The other thing I
have to worry about is some old PCI cards just dont work. I had an
ANCIENT PCI ATI card from the 90s that never seemed to work at all in
any of the system I tried them in a few years ago.

 

[Michael C]

I wish you could do it in bios. They should make that mandatory.

Unfortunately all there is like many boards is a ONBOARDVIDEO/AGP
---YES or NO. I assume they mean onboard and AGP OR PCI.

I guess Ill look for one on EBAY for 10-15 bucks. The other thing I
have to worry about is some old PCI cards just dont work. I had an
ANCIENT PCI ATI card from the 90s that never seemed to work at all in
any of the system I tried them in a few years ago.

The trick I heard of was to put a in a good bios, boot up with it, swap in
the bad bios while it's running and flash it. Not sure if the 2 cards you
have are similar enough for that though. This works in motherboards because
the bios is copied to ram but I'm not sure if it would work in a video card.

The other option is to get someone to flash the bios in an flash programmer.

Michael

 

[john]

The trick I heard of was to put a in a good bios, boot up with it, swap in
the bad bios while it's running and flash it. Not sure if the 2 cards you
have are similar enough for that though. This works in motherboards because
the bios is copied to ram but I'm not sure if it would work in a video card.

I actually have another 9600XT card. But whats the chance of damaging
your card and board trying to plug a card in while its running, thats
what I want to know.

Come to think of it not a good idea. Theres weird lock on the AGP slot
on my lame SIS chipset COMPAQ board and the way the case is designed
its also very hard to slide the AGP card out. Theres a huge chance Ill
be bumping around the card while trying to remove and install it which
may cause a short in the slot.

The other option is to get someone to flash the bios in an flash programmer.

Yeah thats a bit unpractical. These card makers should offer to do it
for small fee or sites like BAD flash.

Anyway the standard advice on the net is get an old PCI graphics card
and set your bios to PCI first which my board does have . Then flash.
I assume this is going to work as its claimed it does work in various
posts but just my luck the flasher wont be able to detect the card.

If they just had a jumper to force onboard video to work even when
there was an AGP card in the slot then there wouldnt be this hassle.

 

[dannysdailys]

(e-mail address removed)
Heres the whole idiotic story.

I was swapping two 9600s the other night I have in two of my extr
PCs. One is a flashable 9600 Pro/Xt the other is a 9600 nonpro.

Well I forgot that I had put the 9600 in my compaq and DUHHHHHH whic
usually has the Pro which everyione says is really an XT which flas
to an XT. I saw 9600 in ATI tools when I was testing it and fo som
bizarre reason I thought it had reverted back to even lower 960
status. Yup moronic.

So I decide to reflash it to XT level and of course it promptly no
shows up dead. It was then of course I remember DUHHHHHH I swappe th
cards. I thnk it may have been one of the dumbest things Ive eve
done. I have a really bad headache now so Im using that as a excuse.


Anyway how to fix?

I have builtin graohics in the compaq but with the ATI in it - i goe
to the ATI first. Im think I could boot up then put the ATI in bu I
concerned that putting a graphics card in after its powered up ma
damage something. The other is - will WINFLASH find a card that no
being used

I am curious, why did you flash the bios in the first place? Do yo
do this kind of thing often

 

[Michael C]

I actually have another 9600XT card. But whats the chance of damaging
your card and board trying to plug a card in while its running, thats
what I want to know.

Come to think of it not a good idea. Theres weird lock on the AGP slot
on my lame SIS chipset COMPAQ board and the way the case is designed
its also very hard to slide the AGP card out. Theres a huge chance Ill
be bumping around the card while trying to remove and install it which
may cause a short in the slot.

I'm not suggesting changing the card, I'm suggesting changing the bios chip
while it's running. As long as you don't short anything out you shouldn't do
any damage. Just loosen the bios chip but keep it plugged in, boot up with
the good card, change the chips and flash. I'm presuming the bios chip can
be removed.

Michael

 

[john]

I am curious, why did you flash the bios in the first place? Do you
do this kind of thing often?

Because I got a 9600 Pro that Im experimenting with.

The short story is - I got a 9600 Pro that everyone said was an
underclocked XT. So people were using ATITOOL to overclock it to test
it and then flash it to a 9600xt -- 500/300.

Its noticeably faster. I tested it with qUAKE 4. There are certain
ATI models of ATI cards that can be overclocked easily and reflashed.

The DUMB part is I was switching them around in my PCs and forgot
which is which and then had a bout of temporary insanity where I
decided to flash the 9600 to a XT not the Pro ---- which is a NO NO.

 

[john]

I'm not suggesting changing the card, I'm suggesting changing the bios chip
while it's running. As long as you don't short anything out you shouldn't do
any damage. Just loosen the bios chip but keep it plugged in, boot up with
the good card, change the chips and flash. I'm presuming the bios chip can
be removed.

Michael

Dont see one on this card. I assume its under the massive heatsink.
That would be an interesting idea if the chips were similar.

 

[kony]

I am curious, why did you flash the bios in the first place? Do you
do this kind of thing often?

Flashing video card bios is a fairly common thing to those
who are both 1) Gamers 2) Able to do it.

For economic reasons many cards (except the highest end
models) use an underclocked GPU to fill the mid and lower
end product lines... they artifically limit performance so
these lower priced cards don't devaluate the more expensive
ones. One of the limitations in such a situation is what
quality (speed grade and type of) memory was used, as that
often ends up being a bottleneck.

 

[kony]

Dont see one on this card. I assume its under the massive heatsink.
That would be an interesting idea if the chips were similar.

Some cards are now using very small EEPROMs soldered
directly to the board. Naturally they're not reasonably
swappable.

Don't try to swap cards while system is running, it could
damage one or the motherboard.

Does the system boot with this bad-flashed cards in it? If
so, see if you can get a bios flashed with a DOS command
line argument executed from a floppy or thumbdrive.

I don't think there is any way to use the onboard AGP video
while a card is still in the AGP slot, except "maybe" if the
card had no bios at all on it, and even then I'm not
confident it would work. Try to get a PCI card if you can't
flash the bios with a command line argument.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I'm think I could boot up then put the ATI in

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Probably will zap both the mobo and the ATI card.

Is there a BIOS setting to let the computer try the built-in graphics
before trying any AGP or PCI graphics card? If not, can you make a DOS
boot floppy or CD and call up a DOS-based ATI flash program from an
AUTOEXEC.BAT file?

 

[john]

Some cards are now using very small EEPROMs soldered
directly to the board. Naturally they're not reasonably
swappable.

Yeah I dont see one. I think they used to use those big ol hairy chips
in the old days. I recall seeing one ages ago but cant really remember
seeing one recently.

Does the system boot with this bad-flashed cards in it? If
so, see if you can get a bios flashed with a DOS command
line argument executed from a floppy or thumbdrive.

Video is completely dead.

You would think 9600 non pro flash to a 9600 XT would still work in
some fashion but nope - I get nothing.

In fact I see conlficting info when I searched. Some posts claim they
flashed a 9600 to a XT or Pro while TechPowerup site has a thing
saying its useless to flash a 9600 to anything else.

 

[john]

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Probably will zap both the mobo and the ATI card.

Yeah Ive seen a board that had buirned contacts before.

Is there a BIOS setting to let the computer try the built-in graphics
before trying any AGP or PCI graphics card? If not, can you make a DOS
boot floppy or CD and call up a DOS-based ATI flash program from an
AUTOEXEC.BAT file?

Nope. Its ONBOARD/AGP OR PCI in the bios.

I thought of that but Id like to get specific info on it to do it.
There is a non win flasher that might work. So far Im not coming up
with anything in Google. The only obvious thing that comes up is use a
PCI card.

I think I can get a PCI for $10 or so on ebay so I guess Ill try that
unless I can dig up a command line method using autoexec.

 

[kony]

I think I can get a PCI for $10 or so on ebay so I guess Ill try that
unless I can dig up a command line method using autoexec.

Even if you can't pass arguments to it with a command line,
if the box boots with the card installed you could just do a
mock run of the flashing procedure with the working card,
but back out of flashing it at the last step, and write down
(on paper) the keystrokes used to do it, then you might be
able to do it without any video feedback while the dead card
is installed.

 

[john]

Even if you can't pass arguments to it with a command line,
if the box boots with the card installed you could just do a
mock run of the flashing procedure with the working card,
but back out of flashing it at the last step, and write down
(on paper) the keystrokes used to do it, then you might be
able to do it without any video feedback while the dead card
is installed.

Yeah I might try that though itll be bizarre. I was actually thinking
about it but I have little confidence in the autoexec method etc cause
I tried it once with a dead motherboard bios where various websites
said it would work and it didnt work at all. But of course that doesnt
mean it wont work with a graphics card. The problem is like I said
though no info on a autoexec method for graphics card.

However typing it in blind may work though I have enough problems
typing when I can see what Im type let alone when I cant see what Im
typing.

Of course Im really going to be steamed if I buy a PCI card and that
method for some reason doesnt work too !

 

[john]

Even if you can't pass arguments to it with a command line,
if the box boots with the card installed you could just do a
mock run of the flashing procedure with the working card,
but back out of flashing it at the last step, and write down
(on paper) the keystrokes used to do it, then you might be
able to do it without any video feedback while the dead card
is installed.

Heres one question - has anyone noticed any old PCI cards that just
dont work in a newer motherboard?

I had an ancient PCI ATI which was ANCIENT but that wouldnt work at
all even in two systems I had few years ago.


Ideally Id like to get an ATI 7000-9000 PCI or something like that
cause Im positive those would work but they tend to be bid up to 20-30
on ebay which is insane as usual. I got my 9600 for 38 bucks and the
9600 pro for 38.

I think Ill call my PCI backup card the IDIOT CARD for emergencies
when I do flash the wrong bios into some card resulting in a dead
card.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I thought of that but Id like to get specific info on it to do it.
There is a non win flasher that might work. So far Im not coming up
with anything in Google. The only obvious thing that comes up is use a
PCI card.

Have you asked in the forums of www.wimsbios.com , www.rage3d.com , or
www.3dchipset.com ? I got hits there by Yahoo searching "ATI flash",
and lots of people use a DOS flasher to upgrade cards the way you were
trying.

I think I can get a PCI for $10 or so on ebay

Can't you find a graphics card from an old computer at the office or in
a dumpster (apartments are good)?

You should be able to get by with a really old PCI card because my
vintage-1996 S3 Verge and S3 Stealth cards worked with an ECS 755-A2
mobo (socket 754). OTOH my Cirruslogic 5430(?), made a year or two
earlier, showed nothing but a blue cursor, I think even with some
Socket 370 mobos.

 

[kony]

Yeah I might try that though itll be bizarre. I was actually thinking
about it but I have little confidence in the autoexec method etc cause
I tried it once with a dead motherboard bios where various websites
said it would work and it didnt work at all. But of course that doesnt
mean it wont work with a graphics card. The problem is like I said
though no info on a autoexec method for graphics card.

Find the DOS flasher you want to use the do the old
"<flasher.exe> /?" command argument to see if it lists the
commands for a flash without user intervention.

However typing it in blind may work though I have enough problems
typing when I can see what Im type let alone when I cant see what Im
typing.

LOL
I am king of mistyped words, I'm sure you can do it fine.

Of course Im really going to be steamed if I buy a PCI card and that
method for some reason doesnt work too !

There has to be a spare PCI card *somewhere* on that island.
Surely a PC shop will lend you one or give it up for a
couple bucks.