backing up advice

  • Thread starter Thread starter JB
  • Start date Start date
J

JB

Hello
We have a network of 5 pcs and 1 shared pc that we all use for storage.
My son's machine decided not to boot up saying boot sector lost and
what-not. He had a major assignment to hand in so we had to rush off to
this place that specialises in data recovery and the guy said the drive was
gone. It cost an arm and a leg to recover his assignment and University
files and stuff.. He also lost 3 year collection of music that the guy
didn't manage to recover. My son's gutted. I haven't got the heart to
lecture him now about backing up.
I don't want to go through this again but I don't want to forever be nagging
at the family to backup their files.
I want to schedule a back up on all 5 pcs to backup their Documents into a
folder in the Shared Pc and on a regular basis.
I see that XP has Backup in Accessories and you can schedule it. Does anyone
use it and what do you think of it.?
or is there another Software that will do it without costing any other parts
of my body.
Thanks
J
 
JB said:
Hello
We have a network of 5 pcs and 1 shared pc that we all use for storage.
My son's machine decided not to boot up saying boot sector lost and
what-not. He had a major assignment to hand in so we had to rush off to
this place that specialises in data recovery and the guy said the drive
was gone. It cost an arm and a leg to recover his assignment and
University files and stuff.. He also lost 3 year collection of music that
the guy didn't manage to recover. My son's gutted. I haven't got the
heart to lecture him now about backing up.
I don't want to go through this again but I don't want to forever be
nagging at the family to backup their files.
I want to schedule a back up on all 5 pcs to backup their Documents into a
folder in the Shared Pc and on a regular basis.
I see that XP has Backup in Accessories and you can schedule it. Does
anyone use it and what do you think of it.?
or is there another Software that will do it without costing any other
parts of my body.
Thanks
J
Click to expand...

A) I'd make all users' My Documents point directly at the 'server' computer
for data storage
B) Get an external USB hard drive for backups & use NTBackup, or the backup
software of your choice, or a batch file running xcopy/robocopy, to back
everything up to the hard drive - automatically, so no user intervention is
required
 
JB said:
We have a network of 5 pcs and 1 shared pc that we all use for
storage.

My son's machine decided not to boot up saying boot sector lost and
what-not. He had a major assignment to hand in so we had to rush off
to this place that specialises in data recovery and the guy said the
drive was gone. It cost an arm and a leg to recover his assignment
and University files and stuff.. He also lost 3 year collection of
music that the guy didn't manage to recover. My son's gutted.
I haven't got the heart to lecture him now about backing up.
I don't want to go through this again but I don't want to forever be
nagging at the family to backup their files.

I want to schedule a back up on all 5 pcs to backup their Documents
into a folder in the Shared Pc and on a regular basis. I see that XP
has Backup in Accessories and you can schedule it. Does
anyone use it and what do you think of it or is there another Software
that will do it without costing any other parts of my body.
Click to expand...

First - make sure you have enough combined space on the shared computer to
do this. You should have at least the amount of space available on it as
you do the other machines combined.

Second - in your case - it is easy to use the built in backup application to
schedule the backup and schedule it to backup to the networked computer hard
drive.

Third - if the lesson wasn't learned, well, you cannot hold everyone's hand
forever. Either they learn it or they don't. Even if you schedule a backup
every night - they can thwart that easily enough depending on a lot of
things. They have to be responsible. If they are not - they have to pay
the consequences. No one is going to backup your son's stuff when he is out
on his own - so why do it now? Gutted or not - if that is the hardest
lesson he has to learn in life - then not only is he lucky - but you really
should let him out of the home every so often... *grin*

Do you have to lecture anyone? No.
Do you have to take responsibility for everyone in the family? No, not in
this case.

I know it must suck to lose all that data - but it is *not* the worst thing
that can happen. I just cannot see you taking responsibility for everyone's
backups in response to it, though. Sure - buy them each an external drive
and maybe use the Retrospect or other software that comes with it and show
them each how to use it so that they can schedule their own backups of their
own important stuff - but doing it for them? This is not a JOB at a
corporate office - this is a private home.

I'm not saying it is not done.. I know of people who purchase Windows 200x
servers and create a domain and place all of their computers in that
domain so that they have "roaming profiles" and more control over the
machines from a centralized location.. and if your son was age 1-16.. MAYBE
that would make sense.. But you said "University".

Go at it with this attitude.. They are not going to learn any younger how
to take responsibilty for their own stuff.
(That goes for anyone at any age.)

Teach them how to backup their own materials and you and they gain.
Do it for them and only you gain - and sooner or later - you won't be
around.
 
Get an external USB hard drive. NTBackup (The XP Backup software) does a
good job - just redirect it to the USB Hard drive. Redirect all the my
documents folders to the shared pc and hook the thing up there. backing
up the music collection may take a lot of space, so i would create a
seperate job that only does that once a week or so into a seperate folder.
Don't use that external drive for anything else - you want it to be a
repository, not something *else* you need to back up. Many USB HDD's have
a button on the front to start a backup and come with their own software -
don't use it. Use the NTBackup.
 
Hello JB,

At work, I use the DOS command "xcopy" to backup all files and folders on my
"Documents" drive.
I have a drive that is labeled "Documents". This is where I keep (ALL) work
related files that need to be backed up on a regular bases.

Then I created a desktop shortcut to the batch file named "backupall.bat".
My "backupall.bat" file contains the xcopy command with the required
parameters.
Whenever I want, clicking the shortcut icon runs the batch file.
It's works well for me, but it is a manual operation in that I have to
remember to do it weekly.
This is not really an issue for me, but may be for your family.

(I believe you can set this as a "scheduled task" with Windows task
scheduler, but I think only WinXP-Pro will do it without user profiles. If
your running XP-Home, for some reason you have to have user log-in profiles
using passwords before it can be a scheduled task) Maybe someone can add to
this... I'm not certain.

But it will work fine using the shortcut.
I have not tried putting the shortcut in the startup folder. This might
automate it for you, but then it would run at every boot. Maybe each user
would have their own batch file that would have different source/target
folders.

Below is the line in the batch file that executes the backup routine...

<C:\Windows\System32\Xcopy.exe "E:\*.*" "F:\Backup Of Documents Drive" /E /D
/I /W /Y>

a) Remove the leading <
b) Remove the Ending >
c) Xcopy.exe is found on MY "system32" folder, you might have to search
for it if otherwise.
d) "E:\*.*" is my source, drive letter "E" = my "Documents" drive. *.* =
All files and folders contained herein.
e) "F:\" is my target drive. A separate physical hard drive that can be
removed and easily installed in a new system if mine fails or I simply buy a
new system.
f) If my target drive does not contain a folder named "Backup Of
Documents Drive" , it will create it.
g) Parameter "/E" = copies directories and subdirectories, including
empty ones.
h) Parameter "/D" = copies only those files whose source time is newer
than the destination time.
(if the file does not exist in the target folder, then it will
copy the source file)
i) Parameter "/W" = Prompts you to press a key before copying.
(I only need to press a key once and the routine will run till
complete)
(Upon completion, the dos batch window will close, if there
where any errors, you won't get to see what it said, I suggest you test-run
your batch file manually by opening a DOS command window and typing the name
of your batch file. when it completes, the DOS window will remain open and
you'll be able to read any errors. Close the window when through. Once you
get any errors you have resolved, things should work fine from here on.
j) Parameter "/Y" = Suppresses prompting to confirm you want to overwrite
an existing destination file.
k) Parameter "/I" = If destination does not exist and copying more than
one file, assumes that destination must be a directory.
(Otherwise, if there is a new folder in the source location, It
will stop and ask if this is a folder or a file)


You may consider using other parameters as needed. Use as many as needed.
Here is the list. This is what you get when you open a DOS command prompt
and type..."help xcopy"
Note the leading double colon, any line in the batch file that begins with
a colon will not be read by the batch routine. therefore, you can place this
text in your batch file for easy reference.
I use two (2) colons simply because one is sometimes hard to see.

::Copies files and directory trees.
::
::XCOPY source [destination] [/A | /M] [/D[:date]] [/P] [/S [/E]] [/V] [/W]
:: [/C] [/I] [/Q] [/F] [/L] [/G] [/H] [/R] [/T]
[/U]
:: [/K] [/N] [/O] [/X] [/Y] [/-Y] [/Z]
:: [/EXCLUDE:file1[+file2][+file3]...]
::
:: source Specifies the file(s) to copy.
:: destination Specifies the location and/or name of new files.
:: /A Copies only files with the archive attribute set,
:: doesn't change the attribute.
:: /M Copies only files with the archive attribute set,
:: turns off the archive attribute.
:: /D:m-d-y Copies files changed on or after the specified date.
:: If no date is given, copies only those files whose
:: source time is newer than the destination time.
:: /EXCLUDE:file1[+file2][+file3]...
:: Specifies a list of files containing strings. Each string
:: should be in a separate line in the files. When any of the
:: strings match any part of the absolute path of the file to
be
:: copied, that file will be excluded from being copied. For
:: example, specifying a string like \obj\ or .obj will
exclude
:: all files underneath the directory obj or all files with
the
:: .obj extension respectively.
:: /P Prompts you before creating each destination file.
:: /S Copies directories and subdirectories except empty ones.
:: /E Copies directories and subdirectories, including empty
ones.
:: Same as /S /E. May be used to modify /T.
:: /V Verifies each new file.
:: /W Prompts you to press a key before copying.
:: /C Continues copying even if errors occur.
:: /I If destination does not exist and copying more than one
file,
:: assumes that destination must be a directory.
:: /Q Does not display file names while copying.
:: /F Displays full source and destination file names while
copying.
:: /L Displays files that would be copied.
:: /G Allows the copying of encrypted files to destination that
does
:: not support encryption.
:: /H Copies hidden and system files also.
:: /R Overwrites read-only files.
:: /T Creates directory structure, but does not copy files. Does
not
:: include empty directories or subdirectories. /T /E includes
:: empty directories and subdirectories.
:: /U Copies only files that already exist in destination.
:: /K Copies attributes. Normal Xcopy will reset read-only
attributes.
:: /N Copies using the generated short names.
:: /O Copies file ownership and ACL information.
:: /X Copies file audit settings (implies /O).
:: /Y Suppresses prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
:: existing destination file.
:: /-Y Causes prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
:: existing destination file.
:: /Z Copies networked files in restartable mode.
::
::The switch /Y may be preset in the COPYCMD environment variable.
::This may be overridden with /-Y on the command line.
::

I know this is not what your looking for.... maybe.... but it is free. It's
been a part of Windows sense before Windows even existed, meaning DOS.

If you don't have any DOS background, maybe you can purchase and download a
program to make this easier for you. I think some, if not most backup
programs utilize the DOS xcopy command and simply bring its function into a
tidy graphic user interface.

Have you looked at the FREE Microsoft "Sync Toys" backup utility?
I think Sync Toys was intended for pictures because it can recognize 2
pictures are identical yet have different names. Allowing you to delete one
of them. But I understand it works well for all file types.
I don't know if it can be scheduled tho.

I hope that maybe SOME of this is helpful to you!

Best regards.
Richard in Va.

PS. Please don't threaten to kill me, I use the xcopy command with great
success and pleasure. but I did have to play with it some to get it to do
what I wanted. It's been the answer to all my problems sense.
And it's FREE.
++++++++++++++++++++
 
In addition...
Although the "My documents" folder is a system folder and that it is user
profile dependant. I'm not sure how you would perform a backup of a "My
documents" folder for a user that is not logged on.

Maybe someone can explain how to use the %UserProfile% thing within xcopy.
That is, if it can be done.
(did I say that right?)

But this example worked for me, that is, when I'm logged on as me.

<C:\Windows\System32\Xcopy.exe "C:\Documents and Settings\Richard\My
Documents\*.*" "F:\Backup Of Richard's Documents" /E /D /W /Y>

Don't forget about the leading < and the trailing >. (see my previous post)
This copied all files and folders in my "My Documents" folder to "F" drive
to a folder named "Backup Of Richard's Documents"

It only copies files that been edited or updated via the file's time stamp.
If the files don't exist in the target folder, it will copy them there.

And also, the first time the batch file runs, it may take several minutes
(or more) for it to execute.
Once it runs for the first time, from then on, it will execute fairly
quickly because it only copies files that are new or have been updated.

As a curiosity.... you mention you have 5 computers on a network and 1 (one)
being shared for common files or backup or such... Is it possible to have
something like my batch file, or a purchased backup program installed on the
shared computer and have it fetch the files from each of the other 5
computers "My Documents folder(s).

Then nobody would have to feel un-responsible again.

Do you still have the problematic hard drive in your possession?
If so, install it into one of your working computers as a slave device and
see if you can salvage some of those music files. Your son needs his guts...
we all need our guts!

I believe I've seen where there are some programs that claim they can
recover files from drives that have been re-formatted. Maybe there is
something that can help. My assumption has always been that so long as the
disk's surface structure is okay and the heads haven't crashed. The files
should still be intact and on the disk.

"My son's machine decided not to boot up saying boot sector lost and
what-not."

Just because the disk won't boot doesn't mean it's "gone".
I also have to assume your tech guy did all he could and maybe he found
bigger problems than you mention in your original post. Nevertheless, I'd
hang onto the drive for awhile. We never know what technology might hold in
our future.

Good luck!

Best regards,
Richard in Va.
+++++++++++++
 
In the future, don't start a new thread when you respond to a post,
please respond to the existing thread.

You just created a separate, fragmented thread.
 
I've taken all that in.
Thank you

Shenan Stanley said:
First - make sure you have enough combined space on the shared computer to
do this. You should have at least the amount of space available on it as
you do the other machines combined.

Second - in your case - it is easy to use the built in backup application
to schedule the backup and schedule it to backup to the networked computer
hard drive.

Third - if the lesson wasn't learned, well, you cannot hold everyone's
hand forever. Either they learn it or they don't. Even if you schedule a
backup every night - they can thwart that easily enough depending on a lot
of things. They have to be responsible. If they are not - they have to
pay the consequences. No one is going to backup your son's stuff when he
is out on his own - so why do it now? Gutted or not - if that is the
hardest lesson he has to learn in life - then not only is he lucky - but
you really should let him out of the home every so often... *grin*

Do you have to lecture anyone? No.
Do you have to take responsibility for everyone in the family? No, not in
this case.

I know it must suck to lose all that data - but it is *not* the worst
thing that can happen. I just cannot see you taking responsibility for
everyone's backups in response to it, though. Sure - buy them each an
external drive and maybe use the Retrospect or other software that comes
with it and show them each how to use it so that they can schedule their
own backups of their own important stuff - but doing it for them? This is
not a JOB at a corporate office - this is a private home.

I'm not saying it is not done.. I know of people who purchase Windows
200x servers and create a domain and place all of their computers in that
domain so that they have "roaming profiles" and more control over the
machines from a centralized location.. and if your son was age 1-16..
MAYBE that would make sense.. But you said "University".

Go at it with this attitude.. They are not going to learn any younger how
to take responsibilty for their own stuff.
(That goes for anyone at any age.)

Teach them how to backup their own materials and you and they gain.
Do it for them and only you gain - and sooner or later - you won't be
around.
Click to expand...
 
Your most welcome!
Hope my reply/method wasn't abit much.
But once I figured out the does and don'ts, it really got pretty simple.
But then I have several years experience working in the DOS environment
before Windows (3.x) came out.
I even created a neat desktop Icon (via MS paint) to use with my desktop
shortcut.

But anyway, here is a link that might interest you. This is a download site
for freeware/shareware and pay-for programs regarding "Backup".
http://www.downloadjunction.com/product/software/7697/index.html
There are many programs here to sift through.

Here is a link to PCWorld's download page. Do a search for "backup" from
here.
http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/

Here is the link to Microsoft SyncToy
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...54-c975-4814-9649-cce41af06eb7&DisplayLang=en

Here is a link to Gizmo's Top Picks
See Item #30 - "Best Free Folder Sync Utility" See what these folks say
about SyncToys.
http://www.techsupportalert.com/best_46_free_utilities.htm

You might also do a google search for "backup" or
"network+backup+software"...
or whatever suites

Hope you find something useful!

Best regards,
Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
Hello JB,

Thank you for using newsgroup!

Based on your requirements, the following articles should be helpful.
Please refer to:

Windows XP Backup Made Easy
<http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx
Establishing a Backup Plan
<http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-u
s/Default.asp?url=/resources/documentation/Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prdg_
dsm_rnne.asp>

How to back up manually or using Windows XP Backup utility
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/update/howbackup.mspx

For more information about how to schedule a backup, please refer to:
To schedule a backup
<http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en
-us/ntbackup_schedule_backup.mspx>

Hope that helps!

Thanks & Regards,

Ken Zhao

Microsoft Online Partner Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

=====================================================
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.
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This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.





--------------------
| From: "JB" <[email protected]>
| Subject: backing up advice
| Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 18:08:21 -0000
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| X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
|
| Hello
| We have a network of 5 pcs and 1 shared pc that we all use for storage.
| My son's machine decided not to boot up saying boot sector lost and
| what-not. He had a major assignment to hand in so we had to rush off to
| this place that specialises in data recovery and the guy said the drive
was
| gone. It cost an arm and a leg to recover his assignment and University
| files and stuff.. He also lost 3 year collection of music that the guy
| didn't manage to recover. My son's gutted. I haven't got the heart to
| lecture him now about backing up.
| I don't want to go through this again but I don't want to forever be
nagging
| at the family to backup their files.
| I want to schedule a back up on all 5 pcs to backup their Documents into
a
| folder in the Shared Pc and on a regular basis.
| I see that XP has Backup in Accessories and you can schedule it. Does
anyone
| use it and what do you think of it.?
| or is there another Software that will do it without costing any other
parts
| of my body.
| Thanks
| J
|
|
|
 
Don't know if this is important to you, but what happens if you make a
silly change that wipes the best part of a document? The next backup
will overrun the good backup with the corrupted file- leaving you with
two duplicates of a corrupted file.

For that reason you need to have backup versions. Relative Rev Backup
(http://www.datamills.com) supports backup versions, it will schedule
the backups as you like, and will keep several versions that can go
months back without multiplying the backup space, while expiring
outdated versions.

So even if you do the above mistake, you will have several backup
points to recover from.
 

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