AVI to VHS tape for grade school class project

[Anthona Susa]

How do we output an avi file onto a VHS video tape?

My fourth grader told me today (last minute) he needs to bring to school a
VHS video tape of his verbal book report as a 60-second "commercial".

I easily snapped the one-minute video from my Nikon CoolPix camera which
saved the 18 MB AVI file onto the compact flash card. But I'm stuck at this
point!

I don't now how to get this AVI file onto a VHS tape from my Windows XP IBM
A31p laptop. I searched this newsgroup but didn't find the question already
answered by anyone.

I tried playing the AVI file in Media Player Classic, version 6.4 while the
firewire was hooked to a borrowed Pinnacle "movie DV" digital to analog
converter which itself was hooked by 3 RCA cables (red, white, yellow) into
the VCR input jack - but nothing was coming into the firewire PC output.

I think I have all the equipment I need but I have no idea how to 'force'
the AVI file to go out the firewire output of the IBM A31p laptop.

Maybe the Pinnacle Studio 9 software disk I borrowed might help?
Or maybe Windows MovieMaker? Or MediaPlaye? I just don't know.

Can you point me in the right direction soon?

What program would play the AVI file and push it out to the firewire which
is hooked to the Pinnacle MovieDV digital to analog converter so that I can
then record the one-minute AVI file onto the VHS tape via the three RCA
jacks on the VCR?

 

[Anthona Susa]

How do we output an avi file onto a VHS video tape?

I forgot to mention that I don't have a video camera that records to tape.
My camera is a point and shoot that also saves AVI files with audio.

I don't have the original three IBM A31p laptop mini-jack green blue pink
either (which I presume are connected to the sound card).

I do have:
- Access to the Internet to download the software I might need
- Firewire to connect the WinXP laptop to the Pinnacle MovieDV box
- RCA cables to connect from the Pinnacle MovieDV to the VCR input
- Pinnacle Studio 9 (not installed) CDROMs (borrowed with the MovieDV box)

What program do I use to force the AVI file to go out the firewire so that
it goes into the MovieDV box as digital and then goes out that MovieDV box
as analog that goes into my (ancient) VCR as analog so that we can record
the 60-seconds of fame onto a VHS tape for the classroom?

Or is there a simpler better way that I don't know about yet?

 

[Martin]

How do we output an avi file onto a VHS video tape?

My fourth grader told me today (last minute) he needs to bring to school a
VHS video tape of his verbal book report as a 60-second "commercial".

I easily snapped the one-minute video from my Nikon CoolPix camera which
saved the 18 MB AVI file onto the compact flash card. But I'm stuck at
this
point!

I don't now how to get this AVI file onto a VHS tape from my Windows XP
IBM
A31p laptop. I searched this newsgroup but didn't find the question
already
answered by anyone.

I tried playing the AVI file in Media Player Classic, version 6.4 while
the
firewire was hooked to a borrowed Pinnacle "movie DV" digital to analog
converter which itself was hooked by 3 RCA cables (red, white, yellow)
into
the VCR input jack - but nothing was coming into the firewire PC output.

I think I have all the equipment I need but I have no idea how to 'force'
the AVI file to go out the firewire output of the IBM A31p laptop.

Maybe the Pinnacle Studio 9 software disk I borrowed might help?
Or maybe Windows MovieMaker? Or MediaPlaye? I just don't know.

Can you point me in the right direction soon?

What program would play the AVI file and push it out to the firewire which
is hooked to the Pinnacle MovieDV digital to analog converter so that I
can
then record the one-minute AVI file onto the VHS tape via the three RCA
jacks on the VCR?

Has your Nikon got a composite video output which can be used to connect to
a TV?
(Many digital cameras have such a connector).

If so you could easily just record straight from the Nikon to a VCR's
composite video input.

Martin.

 

[Anthona Susa]

Does your point and shoot camer have a composite video output
which can be used to connect to a TV?

I had not thought of that (mainly because I never use wires with the point
and shoot camera). I normally just pop the compact flash card into the
PCMCIA adapter and slide the files over from the compact flash card over to
the hard drive.

It's well past midnight and I still haven't gotten this AVI file onto tape
yet by playing it and trying to force it to go down the firewire pipe (if
only I knew how) so I will also try to dig up the original box with the
original wires to the point and shoot camera to see if I can output from
the camera to either the MovieDV ADC/DAC or to the analog VCR input.

Keep ideas coming as I only have about 7 more hours before his school
starts! (He's sleeping blissfully at the moment but he's hoping for a
miacle .

 

[Anthona Susa]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 09:20:21 -0000, Martin wrote:

I don't have the Nikon video-output wires (I always used the PCMCIA card to
tansfer the files from the compact flash to the WinXP laptop hard drive).

But, you gave me an idea which I will try now as I'm desperate.
I found my wife's Canon PowerShot camera and her AV output cable.
That AV output cable converts a mini-phono jack to mono RCA (yellow, red).

Instead of (unsuccessfully so far) trying to force the AVI file out the
firewire into the Pinnacle MovieDV box, I will try your suggestion on the
Canon camera to the VCR recorder. I will now:
1. Format a spare compact flash card in the Canon point and shoot
2. Put the formatted compact flash card in the laptop PCMCIA slot
3. Slide the 18 MB 1-minute AVI file onto the compact flash card
4. Place that compact flash card into the Canon PowerShot camera
5. Hook the analog A/V output from the PowerShot to the VCR input
6. Play (need to figure how) the AVI file on the Canon camera
7. Press the RECORD button on the VCR
8. Hopefully, this will result in a one-minute video on VHS tape!
9. My boy could then bring that to school this morning
10. Leaving me, his Dad, as a hero!

I'll let you know how your suggestion goes.

Meanwhile, if anyone else knows how to force the AVI file out the firewire
which is connected to the pinnacle studio MovieDV box which is connected to
the VCR VHS input, please let me know!

 

[Anthona Susa]

1. Format a spare compact flash card in the Canon point and shoot

2. Put the formatted compact flash card in the laptop PCMCIA slot
3. Slide the 18 MB 1-minute AVI file onto the compact flash card
4. Place that compact flash card into the Canon PowerShot camera
5. Hook the analog A/V output from the PowerShot to the VCR input
6. Play (need to figure how) the AVI file on the Canon camera
7. Press the RECORD button on the VCR to create a 1-minute VHS

Well, I'm almost there; but I must've done something not right yet.

a. I formatted the CF card in the Canon PowerShot A95.
b. I snapped a junk photo & a junk 3-second video.
c. I next put that CF card into the PCMCIA CF adapter.
d. In WinXP, I could see the following file structure:
----> H:\CANON_DC\DCIM\100CANON\MVI0001.AVI
----> H:\CANON_DC\DCIM\100CANON\MVI0001.THM
----> H:\CANON_DC\DCIM\100CANON\IMG_0002.JPG
h. I copied over my AVI file onto that CF card.
i. I wasn't sure what to name it so I named it:
----> H:\CANON_DC\DCIM\100CANON\MVI0002.AVI
j. I wasn't sure what to do about the binary THM file.
k. I don't even know what a THM file is
k. So, I copied the first THM file and called it:
----> H:\CANON_DC\DCIM\100CANON\MVI0002.THM
m. I popped this CF card back into the Canon camera
n. I hooked the Canon NTSC AV output to the VCR RCA input
o. I turned on the VCR & TV & Canon Camera
p. I put the Canon Poweshot A95 in display mode

I have two problems to be solved:
1. The one test photo show up fine on the TV
2. But the 3-second test video just shows a single frame on the TV
3. The 60-second AVI clip I copied to the CF doesn't show up.

So, I now am left with only these two problems, the first of which I am
feverishly looking in the PowerShot A95 User Guide for the solution to; and
the second of which is a perplexing (to me) techical detail which doesn't
seem to be in the manual (I guess they didn't expect us to be moving files
from one camera to the hard disk to the PowerShot A95 for playing so we can
output from the A95 to a VCR for recording onto VHS tape).

Here are my current problems to resolve:
P1: How do we play an AVI video clip on the Canon PowerShot A95?
P2: How do we get the A95 to recognize an AVI copied over from the PC?

 

[Anthona Susa]

Here are my current problems to resolve:

P1: How do we play an AVI video clip on the Canon PowerShot A95?
P2: How do we get the A95 to recognize an AVI copied over from the PC?

I figured out the first question, which was how to play the AVI on the
Canon PowerShot A95 so I could output it to the VCR so I could record it
onto a VHS tape.

1. Turn the Canon PowerShot A95 on.
2. Put the "Mode Switch" (p32) in the down (play) position
3. Press the large round button at the 3 o'clock position
4. Stop when you see a frozen image of your AVI video clip
5. Then press the "Set" button to see the play menu
6. Press the "Set" button again to play the selected AVI
7. You'll hear no sound at first until you read on
8. Press the round button at the 12 o'clock position
9. This will raise the volume so you can hear it

Now that I can play a movie, and now that I can output that played movie to
the AV mini-rca jack which connects to the VCR analog input RCA jacks so I
can now record onto VHS tape.

The only problem I have to surmount now, is to get the Canon camera to
recognize the AVI file that I copied over to its compact flash card.

I'll try naming the copied AVI MV10003.AVI instead of MV10002.AVI to see if
that helps. Also, I wonder what is in the THM file. Do I need it? Is the
fact I just copied another unrelated THM file over important?

What does it take to force a Canon PowerShot A95 camera to play an AVI file
brought over from another source?

 

[Anthona Susa]

I'll try naming the copied AVI MV10003.AVI instead of MV10002.AVI to see if
that helps. Also, I wonder what is in the THM file. Do I need it? Is the
fact I just copied another unrelated THM file over important?

All I want to do is transfer an 60-second AVI file that is on my WinXP hard
disk over to VHS so that my son can bring the VHS tape to school to play in
class. It's almost 3am and I only have until morning to figure this out by
the time he leaves for the bus stop to go to school.

I'm learning a lot and hoping others who read this in the future can just
do it.

At first, I tried playing the 60-second AVI on my hard drive using Media
Player Classic, version 6.4. With a firewire connected from the laptop to
the input of the Pinnacle MovieDV DAC and with the output of the Pinnacle
Movie DV connected to the input of the videocassette player, I figured I
could record onto a VHS tape the movie being played on Media Player
Classic. Alas, nothing was being pushed through the firewire so this
approach failed.

Martin suggested instead of converting the digital AVI to analog using the
Pinnacle MovieDV box, I could convert the digital AVI to analog using the
Canon PowerShot A95 (which wasn't the original camea that shot the AVI in
the first place). This approach seems to work for my test AVIs created on
the Canon PowerShot A95. The only problem at the moment is the menu
selections also show up on the final VHS recording (I think I might resolve
the menus showing up on the final VHS with the Canon PowerShot A95
"AutoPlay" feature).

So, this approach suggested by Martin works!
If only I could get the Canon PowerShot A95 to recognize the AVI file I
downloaded and renamed on its formatted CF card.

My only questions are related to how to get the AVI to be recognized by the
Canon camera.

P1. What is that THM file? Is it needed? How can I make a good one?
P2. Does the numbering scheme matter when I copy an AVI file over?
P3. Do I need to do something "special" to get the A95 to recognize the
copied-over AVI file from the computer hard drive?

 

[Anthona Susa]

P1. What is that THM file? Is it needed? How can I make a good one?
P2. Does the numbering scheme matter when I copy an AVI file over?
P3. Do I need to do something "special" to get the A95 to recognize the
copied-over AVI file from the computer hard drive?

I noticed something interesting.
In my tests, I copied over a bunch of JPEG files onto the Compact Flash
card from my WinXP hard drive. I had used IrfanView to do a "lossless
rotation" of some of those JPEG files. Of the JPEG files I copied over, the
Canon PowerShot A95 refused to recognize those that were rotated by the
IrfanView plugin.

The good news is that the copied over JPEG files that were not rotated
worked fine. Also, I figured out how to turn on the AutoPlay feature of the
Canon A95 so that got rid of the play menu caused by hitting the set button
and then hitting it again to actually play the AVI.

So, I now can autoplay a few related JPGs and then autoplay an AVI and then
a few more JPGs (based on the file numberng system) to record from the
Canon A95 over to the VHS tape. The only problem is this is working only
with the test AVI; the AVI that is shot from the Canon camera.

I need to get the Canon camera to recognize the AVI that was on my computer
hard disk.

Does anyone out there know the steps to properly copy an AVI file from a
WinXP hard disk over to a compact flash such that the Canon PowerShot A95
will recognize that AVI file? Does the numbering system or THM file
(whatever that is) have anything to do with the technique?

Thanks for your help, I'm trying to get this done by morning so my kid can
take the VHS tape to school for his project due tomorrow (he only told me
about it today and it's now past 3am and I'm tantalizingly almost there
with your help!).

Tony Susa

 

[Martin]

I noticed something interesting.
In my tests, I copied over a bunch of JPEG files onto the Compact Flash
card from my WinXP hard drive. I had used IrfanView to do a "lossless
rotation" of some of those JPEG files. Of the JPEG files I copied over,
the
Canon PowerShot A95 refused to recognize those that were rotated by the
IrfanView plugin.

The good news is that the copied over JPEG files that were not rotated
worked fine. Also, I figured out how to turn on the AutoPlay feature of
the
Canon A95 so that got rid of the play menu caused by hitting the set
button
and then hitting it again to actually play the AVI.

So, I now can autoplay a few related JPGs and then autoplay an AVI and
then
a few more JPGs (based on the file numberng system) to record from the
Canon A95 over to the VHS tape. The only problem is this is working only
with the test AVI; the AVI that is shot from the Canon camera.

I need to get the Canon camera to recognize the AVI that was on my
computer
hard disk.

Does anyone out there know the steps to properly copy an AVI file from a
WinXP hard disk over to a compact flash such that the Canon PowerShot A95
will recognize that AVI file? Does the numbering system or THM file
(whatever that is) have anything to do with the technique?

Thanks for your help, I'm trying to get this done by morning so my kid can
take the VHS tape to school for his project due tomorrow (he only told me
about it today and it's now past 3am and I'm tantalizingly almost there
with your help!).

Tony Susa

So do you still have the Nikon that the original AVI was recorded with?
Does the Canon AV lead not work with the Nikon's AV output?

Have you got access to a PC with a TV output (composite video) which you
could record directly to VHS?

Good luck.

Martin.

 

[JimK]

I noticed something interesting.
In my tests, I copied over a bunch of JPEG files onto the Compact Flash
card from my WinXP hard drive. I had used IrfanView to do a "lossless
rotation" of some of those JPEG files. Of the JPEG files I copied over, the
Canon PowerShot A95 refused to recognize those that were rotated by the
IrfanView plugin.

The good news is that the copied over JPEG files that were not rotated
worked fine. Also, I figured out how to turn on the AutoPlay feature of the
Canon A95 so that got rid of the play menu caused by hitting the set button
and then hitting it again to actually play the AVI.

So, I now can autoplay a few related JPGs and then autoplay an AVI and then
a few more JPGs (based on the file numberng system) to record from the
Canon A95 over to the VHS tape. The only problem is this is working only
with the test AVI; the AVI that is shot from the Canon camera.

I need to get the Canon camera to recognize the AVI that was on my computer
hard disk.

Does anyone out there know the steps to properly copy an AVI file from a
WinXP hard disk over to a compact flash such that the Canon PowerShot A95
will recognize that AVI file? Does the numbering system or THM file
(whatever that is) have anything to do with the technique?

Thanks for your help, I'm trying to get this done by morning so my kid can
take the VHS tape to school for his project due tomorrow (he only told me
about it today and it's now past 3am and I'm tantalizingly almost there
with your help!).

Tony Susa

It would be nice if laptop had s-video or composite TV Out.

The Studio MovieBox DV should output s-video or composite TV Out.

You probably have to play video within Studio MovieBox DV software
to output MovieBox DV s-video or composite TV Out, you'd think.
Probably settings somewhere.

VCR set to "line in" ?

Good Luck

 

[Frank ess]

It would be nice if laptop had s-video or composite TV Out.

The Studio MovieBox DV should output s-video or composite TV Out.

You probably have to play video within Studio MovieBox DV software
to output MovieBox DV s-video or composite TV Out, you'd think.
Probably settings somewhere.

VCR set to "line in" ?

Good Luck

shh

 

[Martin]

I noticed something interesting.
In my tests, I copied over a bunch of JPEG files onto the Compact Flash
card from my WinXP hard drive. I had used IrfanView to do a "lossless
rotation" of some of those JPEG files. Of the JPEG files I copied over,
the
Canon PowerShot A95 refused to recognize those that were rotated by the
IrfanView plugin.

The good news is that the copied over JPEG files that were not rotated
worked fine. Also, I figured out how to turn on the AutoPlay feature of
the
Canon A95 so that got rid of the play menu caused by hitting the set
button
and then hitting it again to actually play the AVI.

So, I now can autoplay a few related JPGs and then autoplay an AVI and
then
a few more JPGs (based on the file numberng system) to record from the
Canon A95 over to the VHS tape. The only problem is this is working only
with the test AVI; the AVI that is shot from the Canon camera.

I need to get the Canon camera to recognize the AVI that was on my
computer
hard disk.

Does anyone out there know the steps to properly copy an AVI file from a
WinXP hard disk over to a compact flash such that the Canon PowerShot A95
will recognize that AVI file? Does the numbering system or THM file
(whatever that is) have anything to do with the technique?

Thanks for your help, I'm trying to get this done by morning so my kid can
take the VHS tape to school for his project due tomorrow (he only told me
about it today and it's now past 3am and I'm tantalizingly almost there
with your help!).

Tony Susa

Have you succeeded yet?

I had an idea - analyse the videos produced by your Canon with say AVIcodec.

Then do your best to convert the Nikon video to the same format that the
Canon produces and of course - plays back....

AVIcodec:
http://avicodec.duby.info/

(A small freeware utility - 556KBs).

Martin.

 

[Gripper]

How do we output an avi file onto a VHS video tape?

My fourth grader told me today (last minute) he needs to bring to school a
VHS video tape of his verbal book report as a 60-second "commercial".

I easily snapped the one-minute video from my Nikon CoolPix camera which
saved the 18 MB AVI file onto the compact flash card. But I'm stuck at
this
point!

I don't now how to get this AVI file onto a VHS tape from my Windows XP
IBM
A31p laptop. I searched this newsgroup but didn't find the question
already
answered by anyone.

I tried playing the AVI file in Media Player Classic, version 6.4 while
the
firewire was hooked to a borrowed Pinnacle "movie DV" digital to analog
converter which itself was hooked by 3 RCA cables (red, white, yellow)
into
the VCR input jack - but nothing was coming into the firewire PC output.

I think I have all the equipment I need but I have no idea how to 'force'
the AVI file to go out the firewire output of the IBM A31p laptop.

Maybe the Pinnacle Studio 9 software disk I borrowed might help?
Or maybe Windows MovieMaker? Or MediaPlaye? I just don't know.

Can you point me in the right direction soon?

What program would play the AVI file and push it out to the firewire which
is hooked to the Pinnacle MovieDV digital to analog converter so that I
can
then record the one-minute AVI file onto the VHS tape via the three RCA
jacks on the VCR?

I've just found the specs for your laptop- it has video out: both composite
and S-video! just hook it up to your VCR , get the laptop playing the video
full screen, hit record on the VCR ......
no need to bother with firewire at all

 

[Alan Shepherd]

P1. What is that THM file? Is it needed? How can I make a good one?

I noticed something interesting.
In my tests, I copied over a bunch of JPEG files onto the Compact Flash
card from my WinXP hard drive. I had used IrfanView to do a "lossless
rotation" of some of those JPEG files. Of the JPEG files I copied over,
the
Canon PowerShot A95 refused to recognize those that were rotated by the
IrfanView plugin.

The good news is that the copied over JPEG files that were not rotated
worked fine. Also, I figured out how to turn on the AutoPlay feature of
the
Canon A95 so that got rid of the play menu caused by hitting the set
button
and then hitting it again to actually play the AVI.

So, I now can autoplay a few related JPGs and then autoplay an AVI and
then
a few more JPGs (based on the file numberng system) to record from the
Canon A95 over to the VHS tape. The only problem is this is working only
with the test AVI; the AVI that is shot from the Canon camera.

I need to get the Canon camera to recognize the AVI that was on my
computer
hard disk.

Does anyone out there know the steps to properly copy an AVI file from a
WinXP hard disk over to a compact flash such that the Canon PowerShot A95
will recognize that AVI file? Does the numbering system or THM file
(whatever that is) have anything to do with the technique?

Thanks for your help, I'm trying to get this done by morning so my kid can
take the VHS tape to school for his project due tomorrow (he only told me
about it today and it's now past 3am and I'm tantalizingly almost there
with your help!).

Tony Susa

This may sound daft, but could'nt you just plug the TV Out from your PC into
a VHS Video recorder and work it that way?

Another solution would be to try and convert the compressed Avi to DV-Avi
and output that to the MovieBox (which WILL work - but is the frame rate
15fps or genuine NTSC/ Pal, if so then this idea snookered - it'll look VERY
jumpy, and you'll be lucky to get the conversion correct).

 

[marks542004]

How do we output an avi file onto a VHS video tape?

My fourth grader told me today (last minute) he needs to bring to school a
VHS video tape of his verbal book report as a 60-second "commercial".

I easily snapped the one-minute video from my Nikon CoolPix camera which
saved the 18 MB AVI file onto the compact flash card. But I'm stuck at this
point!

I don't now how to get this AVI file onto a VHS tape from my Windows XP IBM
A31p laptop. I searched this newsgroup but didn't find the question already
answered by anyone.

I tried playing the AVI file in Media Player Classic, version 6.4 while the
firewire was hooked to a borrowed Pinnacle "movie DV" digital to analog
converter which itself was hooked by 3 RCA cables (red, white, yellow) into
the VCR input jack - but nothing was coming into the firewire PC output.

I think I have all the equipment I need but I have no idea how to 'force'
the AVI file to go out the firewire output of the IBM A31p laptop.

Maybe the Pinnacle Studio 9 software disk I borrowed might help?
Or maybe Windows MovieMaker? Or MediaPlaye? I just don't know.

Can you point me in the right direction soon?

What program would play the AVI file and push it out to the firewire which
is hooked to the Pinnacle MovieDV digital to analog converter so that I can
then record the one-minute AVI file onto the VHS tape via the three RCA
jacks on the VCR?

I would look at other output options than firewire.
Could you burn the video to DVD and then copy it from dvd player to vhs
tape ?
Does your laptop have a TV out port ?


I would question why your kid has this as a task. I would not expect
many households to have the equipment to record video to vhs tape.

 

[RobG]

can take the VHS tape to school for his project due tomorrow (he only
told me about it today and it's now past 3am and I'm tantalizingly
almost there with your help!).

Tony Susa

Tony,

you seem to be missing the point. It's 3am? Your son only just told you
about this project? Go to bed. In the morning, he'll learn a valuable
lesson about planning. This is called experience and it is that which
teaches us life skills. No harm will come to him, and you'll get some
sleep.

Not much help in your current situation, I know, but it's what I'd be
doing.

RobG

 

[Bill G]

Tony,

you seem to be missing the point. It's 3am? Your son only just told you
about this project? Go to bed. In the morning, he'll learn a valuable
lesson about planning. This is called experience and it is that which
teaches us life skills. No harm will come to him, and you'll get some
sleep.

Not much help in your current situation, I know, but it's what I'd be
doing.

Amen. That's exactly how I have handled several of these kinds of
occasions. You don't teach others to plan ahead by staying up all
night.

Remember the saying, "Lack of planning on your part does not
constitute an emergency on my part."

 

[kashe]

How do we output an avi file onto a VHS video tape?

My fourth grader told me today (last minute) he needs to bring to school a
VHS video tape of his verbal book report as a 60-second "commercial".

I easily snapped the one-minute video from my Nikon CoolPix camera which
saved the 18 MB AVI file onto the compact flash card. But I'm stuck at this
point!

I don't now how to get this AVI file onto a VHS tape from my Windows XP IBM
A31p laptop. I searched this newsgroup but didn't find the question already
answered by anyone.

I tried playing the AVI file in Media Player Classic, version 6.4 while the
firewire was hooked to a borrowed Pinnacle "movie DV" digital to analog
converter which itself was hooked by 3 RCA cables (red, white, yellow) into
the VCR input jack - but nothing was coming into the firewire PC output.

I think I have all the equipment I need but I have no idea how to 'force'
the AVI file to go out the firewire output of the IBM A31p laptop.

Maybe the Pinnacle Studio 9 software disk I borrowed might help?
Or maybe Windows MovieMaker? Or MediaPlaye? I just don't know.

Can you point me in the right direction soon?

What program would play the AVI file and push it out to the firewire which
is hooked to the Pinnacle MovieDV digital to analog converter so that I can
then record the one-minute AVI file onto the VHS tape via the three RCA
jacks on the VCR?

 

[kashe]

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 08:13:19 GMT, Anthona Susa


... to five friggin newsgroups. With all that, you'd think
he's have enough moxie to STFW.