V
V Green
Saucy Lemon said:
But the Default is to Reboot, a stupid choice.
Default should be NOT to.
But the Default is to Reboot, a stupid choice.
Default should be NOT to.
U
Uncle Grumpy
Joseph said:
It's your fault because you were not smart enough to save your work.
It's also your fault because you didn't select the proper option from
those available from your automatic update selection.
J
Joseph Geretz
No, just the wording on the Automatic Updates tab.
And where pray tell, on the Auto Updates tab does it say anything about
automatic reboot? I'm a developer. I've written dozens of application
installers. I've NEVER written an installer which would force a reboot of
the system without prompting the user. What would you think of an installer
that unilaterally rebooted the machine at the end of an install process
without asking your permission?
- Joe Geretz -
And where pray tell, on the Auto Updates tab does it say anything about
automatic reboot? I'm a developer. I've written dozens of application
installers. I've NEVER written an installer which would force a reboot of
the system without prompting the user. What would you think of an installer
that unilaterally rebooted the machine at the end of an install process
without asking your permission?
- Joe Geretz -
Saucy Lemon said:
J
Joseph Geretz
But the Default is to Reboot, a stupid choice.
Thank you V. When the Emeror has no clothes, it's so hard to get people to
see it.
BTW, am I missing something? I see the option to install automatically
versus the option to download and notify. What I don't see though is the
interface to specify any sort of options for auto-install (e.g. reboot
handling, etc.). Although this seems to be possible via Registry Hacking, I
don't see that this discharges Microsoft's responsibility in this matter
since 99.99% of all users aren't likely to be savvy enough for this. I think
that Microsoft's choices of auto-install vs auto-download are simply
insufficient, given the fact the auto-install will involve a unilateral
reboot which is the sort of thing which is liable to cause data loss even if
it does occur at 3:00am. As you say, auto-install is all well and good, in
fact that was, up until a few nights ago, my preferred mechanism. However,
the default auto-boot option of ENABLED is clearly the wrong default.
Trust MS to get it wrong. Anyone remember the fiasco caused by automatically
enabling all Network Adapters, even dial-up, for NETBIOS?
- Joe Geretz -
Thank you V. When the Emeror has no clothes, it's so hard to get people to
see it.
BTW, am I missing something? I see the option to install automatically
versus the option to download and notify. What I don't see though is the
interface to specify any sort of options for auto-install (e.g. reboot
handling, etc.). Although this seems to be possible via Registry Hacking, I
don't see that this discharges Microsoft's responsibility in this matter
since 99.99% of all users aren't likely to be savvy enough for this. I think
that Microsoft's choices of auto-install vs auto-download are simply
insufficient, given the fact the auto-install will involve a unilateral
reboot which is the sort of thing which is liable to cause data loss even if
it does occur at 3:00am. As you say, auto-install is all well and good, in
fact that was, up until a few nights ago, my preferred mechanism. However,
the default auto-boot option of ENABLED is clearly the wrong default.
Trust MS to get it wrong. Anyone remember the fiasco caused by automatically
enabling all Network Adapters, even dial-up, for NETBIOS?
- Joe Geretz -
L
Leythos
No, the default is designed to provide the MOST PROTECTION FOR THE
IGNORANT.
In your case, you had several options for the automatic updates, you
didn't take the time to understand them and you paid the price for
wanting to remain ignorant.
As a developer you should really be more concerned that you didn't pay
enough attention to what you told your system to do.
C
Cymbal Man Freq.
Should I do a complete PC backup before applying this update?
L
Leythos
"Cymbal Man said:
The standard has ALWAYS been to backup anything you don't want to lose
before doing any updates/installs.
U
Uncle Grumpy
Joseph said:
Most definitely.
Control Panel. Click on Security Center. Look for "Manage Security
Settings for..."
Even a six year old with average computer savvy could find it.
OH... and learn to make periodic saves of your work so that we don't
have to listen to your whining again.
J
Joseph Geretz
In your case, you had several options for the automatic updates, you
Please don't feed the troll.
Please don't feed the troll.
W
WTC
Joseph Geretz said:
Rebooting the computer is part of the *install* process on most hotfixes. So
what part don't you get about Automatic Updates rebooting the computer when
you have it set to download and install automatically?
W
WTC
Joseph Geretz said:
You are prompted to reboot.
How to schedule automatic updates in Windows Server 2003, in Windows XP, and
in Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;327838
<quote>
Windows will restarts your computer if no action is taken within 5:00
minutes
</quote>
J
Joseph Geretz
what part don't you get about Automatic Updates rebooting the computer
The part about not being prompted for the reboot.
Rebooting the computer is part of many interactive *install* processes. But
they don't take it upon themselves to unilaterally reboot. It's just poor
form.
- Joe Geretz -
The part about not being prompted for the reboot.
Rebooting the computer is part of many interactive *install* processes. But
they don't take it upon themselves to unilaterally reboot. It's just poor
form.
- Joe Geretz -
A
Asher_N
MS got it right. You set auto-update to automatically install the
updates. An update that requires a reboot is not installed until AFTER
the reboot. At best the update is not installed at all. At worst, it's
only half installed, leaving the computer unstable. YOU want the updates
to go on automatically, the computer is just doing what it's told.
S
Saucy Lemon
Joseph said:
Mr. Geretz:
I don't want to be argumentative because I realize you have been hurt by
this updating business, but consider anyway: what part of "automatic" isn't
automatic? If the install needs a reboot and the machine is set to
"automatic" .. well .. one might think that it might all be just that:
"automatic".
Microsoft has made the provision in the Automatic Updates so that the
machine downloads the updates but waits for user input to actually go ahead
and do the update.That might be the best setting for you.
I feel badly for you that you have had this event and understandably you
would be upset.. In a way, though, it is probably good because you have
learned about the process a lot. If it is any comfort, you are not alone in
having lost electronic bits and bytes. I lost an entire family picture
collection that I had been putting together from pictures I was taking with
my digital camera last year because I not only wiped my main computer I went
and frigged with the computer I used for backups and got confused as to
which harddrive had the backups. And a few years ago I lost a lot of source
code because I was too eager to slap on the new version of Windows and I
click the wrong choices.
As another guy said: "sh*t happens" and you the more back ups, even on the
fly, the better, the more important the work. If it is your bread and butter
work or "the" novel, don't depend on the one copy on the one harddrive -
because there's a good chance it might get wiped somehow.
Anyway, I'm sure you have lots of work to do, so's enough's said.
J
Joseph Geretz
So what part don't you get ...
The part about not waiting for user reply before going ahead and rebooting.
Are you saying that Microsoft got it *wrong* for the way this is handled on
Win2003 Server? My Win2003 Server has the same auto-update setting as on my
WindowsXP boxes. Yet on that platform, I found a dialog box waiting on a
reboot the next morning. My assertion is that Microsoft got it right on
Windows2003 Server, yet wrong on Windows XP. You evidently feel that it is
the other way around. Microsoft got it right on Windows XP, but wrong on
Win2003 Server. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
- Joe Geretz -
The part about not waiting for user reply before going ahead and rebooting.
Are you saying that Microsoft got it *wrong* for the way this is handled on
Win2003 Server? My Win2003 Server has the same auto-update setting as on my
WindowsXP boxes. Yet on that platform, I found a dialog box waiting on a
reboot the next morning. My assertion is that Microsoft got it right on
Windows2003 Server, yet wrong on Windows XP. You evidently feel that it is
the other way around. Microsoft got it right on Windows XP, but wrong on
Win2003 Server. You're as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.
- Joe Geretz -
J
Joseph Geretz
Control Panel. Click on Security Center. Look for "Manage Security
Doesn't at all provide any information or settings for controlling
post-update reboot information. (Which by the way is different for Windows
XP, than it is for Windows 2003 Server, as I've mentioned elsewhere.)
I'm trying to determine what is the IQ breakpoint necessary in order to
comprehend the possibility of a unit of work which takes longer than 5
minutes or so. Maybe Grumpy likes to stay up all night babysitting his
processes so that he can save every 5 minutes.
Maybe that's why he's so grumpy...
- Joe Geretz -
Doesn't at all provide any information or settings for controlling
post-update reboot information. (Which by the way is different for Windows
XP, than it is for Windows 2003 Server, as I've mentioned elsewhere.)
I'm trying to determine what is the IQ breakpoint necessary in order to
comprehend the possibility of a unit of work which takes longer than 5
minutes or so. Maybe Grumpy likes to stay up all night babysitting his
processes so that he can save every 5 minutes.
Maybe that's why he's so grumpy...
- Joe Geretz -
J
Joseph Geretz
You are prompted to reboot.
....
And what exactly is it about taking no action that causes microsoft to
assume that it's OK to reboot? As I've pointed out elsewhere on this thread,
this works differently in Windows 2003 Server than it does on Windows XP.
Evidently, Microsoft feels that it's *not safe* to reboot a server unless
explicit interactive permission is given. I think Microsoft got this right.
On the other hand, Microsoft seems to feel that it *is safe* to reboot an XP
box in the absence of explicit interactive permission. I think Microsoft got
this wrong.
- Joe Geretz -
....
And what exactly is it about taking no action that causes microsoft to
assume that it's OK to reboot? As I've pointed out elsewhere on this thread,
this works differently in Windows 2003 Server than it does on Windows XP.
Evidently, Microsoft feels that it's *not safe* to reboot a server unless
explicit interactive permission is given. I think Microsoft got this right.
On the other hand, Microsoft seems to feel that it *is safe* to reboot an XP
box in the absence of explicit interactive permission. I think Microsoft got
this wrong.
- Joe Geretz -
J
Joseph Geretz
It would also be wise for you to save your work periodically. Shit
I'll take your word for it - you should know. Checked your diaper recently?
I'll take your word for it - you should know. Checked your diaper recently?
M
Mike Williams
Joseph said:
Backups won't help if the automatic reboot closes down the machine while
other processes are doing useful stuff on your computer over night/lunch
wahetever.
J
Joseph Geretz
Backups won't help if the automatic reboot closes down the machine while
You're absolutely right Mike. But I think that the concept of a process
which performs useful operations on a continuous, ongoing basis, is way over
Grumpy's head.
He's awfully good at Solitaire though.
You're absolutely right Mike. But I think that the concept of a process
which performs useful operations on a continuous, ongoing basis, is way over
Grumpy's head.
He's awfully good at Solitaire though.