Archiving Classic Films after storing on Satellite System's HDControl Unit

R

Robert Macy

I've got a series of classic films I'd like to transfer to DVD, or
such, in order to archive.

They were originally saved in the DirecTV HD Control Unit. The unit is
acting a bit flakey, and they want me to swap out the Control Unit;
which, according to them, will lose ALL my films!! No way around
losing all my films unless there's some way for me to transfer each to
a more 'permanent' archive form.

Is there some DVD burner that I can transfer each film to and then
burn a DVD - for my own back up.

Every film I collect has 'legs' so I don't mind viewing the film while
doing a real-time transfer - if necessary.

Any ideas out there?
 
B

BillW50

I've got a series of classic films I'd like to transfer to DVD, or
such, in order to archive.

They were originally saved in the DirecTV HD Control Unit. The unit is
acting a bit flakey, and they want me to swap out the Control Unit;
which, according to them, will lose ALL my films!! No way around
losing all my films unless there's some way for me to transfer each to
a more 'permanent' archive form.

Is there some DVD burner that I can transfer each film to and then
burn a DVD - for my own back up.

Every film I collect has 'legs' so I don't mind viewing the film while
doing a real-time transfer - if necessary.

Any ideas out there?

I don't see a problem. You should have a lot of outputs (some outputs
offer better quality than others). Anything that records from one of
these outputs should work just fine I would think. I record from mine
all of the time with the DVD recorder.

I also have two laptops with TV tuners that have composite and S-video
inputs. And I also record directly or indirectly that way too.
 
P

Paul

BillW50 said:
I don't see a problem. You should have a lot of outputs (some outputs
offer better quality than others). Anything that records from one of
these outputs should work just fine I would think. I record from mine
all of the time with the DVD recorder.

I also have two laptops with TV tuners that have composite and S-video
inputs. And I also record directly or indirectly that way too.

1) DVD recorder box - records directly to a DVD. The problem with the
concept, is you may not be happy with the results. If you need to edit
the content a bit, or re-author the DVD (improve menu structure), it'll
mean reading the DVD back into the computer.

2) USB3 capture device ($150)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100148

The "good" interfaces, are on the back. The five RCA connectors are
for left-right audio, and YPbPr component video. That's a high bandwidth
way of recording. There is also digital recording over HDMI. Usually,
on HDMI, it's not legal for the capture device to support HDCP, so if the
source uses HDCP encryption, the capture device will see "snow". The other
limitation with the capture devices, is they cannot capture 1080p (progressive)
and are limited to things like 1080i (interleaved). By comparison, I
don't think the YPbPr is limited in that way. The hardware may even
support Macrovision, so if the content were to be protected with
some flavor of Macrovision, the captured results may be ruined.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/15-100-148-Z04?$S640W$

Basically, you have to look up the specifics of your hardware,
and the results of recording attempts by others, to know whether
wasting money on capture devices, is worthwhile. I can't predict
here, what's going to happen. Lots of TV channels, are going to
arbitrarily turn on the "do not copy" bit, the HD recorder is allowed
to time shift the content, but when asked to play it back, is going to
try to protect the output from copying. Which is why you'd need to know
something about the recording device. Some early devices for example,
had unprotected Firewire ports, and those are like gold. Knowing
how "armored" the box is, is half the battle.

Pulling the drive from a recorder box, is also a possibility you might
have thought of, but again, the recorded content could be encrypted
"just for fun", or, in a format that would make it difficult to
recover (foreign file system). So even it there weren't tamper-proof
screws on the chassis, you might face more of a challenge if you
cloned the hard drive inside the recorder. Again, if there's a way
to do that, typing the exact model number of the Tivo or whatever
into Google, will tell you whether anyone succeeded via hard drive cloning.

3) PCI Express capture device ($99)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100049

Read the customer reviews on that one. Users use FRAPs, a separate program,
to record from the card, rather than the provided software.

Card has same limitation, records up to 1080i. The adapter cable appears
to have YPbPr component input as an option.

In terms of who came out with some of that stuff first, this is an example
of some original hardware. These guys did a PCI Express version and a USB3
version. I see they're offering a new box here, but haven't looked at
the details yet. For the PCI Express design, as far as I know, these
guys did the first one.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity/techspecs/

A weakness with those, comes in a few places.

1) Bandwidth required. The PCI Express card, if it had more lanes, might
have been able to more comfortably record uncompressed (so you can convert
to DVD format later with DVD mastering software). The cards may use MJPEG
compression, to drop the data rate to a point where it'll fit over the
interface. Getting an onboard MPEG compressor, while that would seem a
logical option, might not be as common.

2) Usually, the capture software provided with the product, sucks. But
that tends to be true, even on TV tuner cards, so this is nothing new.
For virtually any capture cards or TV tuner cards, you always have to
read the customer reviews, to see if there is *any* software you can use.
Hardware is useless, if all the software is broken. Don't buy hardware,
without knowing what the "software success path" is.

3) On the USB3 capture box, you may need a "full bandwidth" USB3 port and
not a "half bandwidth" USB3 port. These USB3 capture boxes, are one of
the few devices that can't accept inferior implementations of USB3. The
BlackMagic USB3 capture box, actually comes with transfer rate test software,
and the capture software won't run until it's tested the port. If the transfer
rate is too slow, it'll tell you, and then, won't do capture.

The latest Intel and AMD motherboards, can have native USB3. That stands a
good chance of running full rate. That won't be inferior. Only AMD motherboards
with A70 or other A-series chipsets, have native USB3. Many AMd motherboards
still rely on a third party USB3 chip, so AMD doesn't support it across the board.

Sticking a USB3 card in the computer, can add USB3 ports. But, the slot in
the computer, has to be PCI Express Revision 2, for the capture to be "full rate".
Lots of computers have PCI Express Revision 1 for their x1 (tiny PCI Express) slots,
and they capture at "half speed". The same thing can happen, even for USB3
chips soldered to the motherboard - the PCI Express lane used, can be an inferior
one, and the only time it matters (to date), is with one of these USB3 capture
boxes. Only the latest motherboards, have PCI Express revision 2 x1 slots.
And the documentation may make it difficult to determine what you've got.

So hardware bandwidth is an issue with either type of product. In the
case of the PCI Express, MJPEG compression attempts to get the picture
bandwidth down to the point, it'll travel over an x1 lane. In the USB3
box, you may need a good quality USB3 port, to make capture viable.
And that's when attempting to capture at the highest resolution possible.
If you capture at 720p, that may make capturing a bit easier.

Like any capture or tuner device, audio/video sync can be a problem,
which is why, again, you want to read the reviews, to see if the
two remain aligned over a two hour capture.

The DVD recorder concept, because it outputs a DVD directly, makes
a lot of these issues go away, but at the cost of the potential
quality of the output. Using capture devices, is to attempt to do
as good a job as possible. The output step (conversion to DVD format),
is childs play compared to the capture step. You can do that in
a more leisurely fashion.

Paul
 
R

Robert Macy

1) DVD recorder box - records directly to a DVD. The problem with the
    concept, is you may not be happy with the results. If you need toedit
    the content a bit, or re-author the DVD (improve menu structure),it'll
    mean reading the DVD back into the computer.

2) USB3 capture device ($150)

   http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100148

    The "good" interfaces, are on the back. The five RCA connectors are
    for left-right audio, and YPbPr component video. That's a high bandwidth
    way of recording. There is also digital recording over HDMI. Usually,
    on HDMI, it's not legal for the capture device to support HDCP, so if the
    source uses HDCP encryption, the capture device will see "snow". The other
    limitation with the capture devices, is they cannot capture 1080p(progressive)
    and are limited to things like 1080i (interleaved). By comparison, I
    don't think the YPbPr is limited in that way. The hardware may even
    support Macrovision, so if the content were to be protected with
    some flavor of Macrovision, the captured results may be ruined.

   http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/15-100-148-Z04?$S640W$

    Basically, you have to look up the specifics of your hardware,
    and the results of recording attempts by others, to know whether
    wasting money on capture devices, is worthwhile. I can't predict
    here, what's going to happen. Lots of TV channels, are going to
    arbitrarily turn on the "do not copy" bit, the HD recorder is allowed
    to time shift the content, but when asked to play it back, is going to
    try to protect the output from copying. Which is why you'd need to know
    something about the recording device. Some early devices for example,
    had unprotected Firewire ports, and those are like gold. Knowing
    how "armored" the box is, is half the battle.

    Pulling the drive from a recorder box, is also a possibility you might
    have thought of, but again, the recorded content could be encrypted
    "just for fun", or, in a format that would make it difficult to
    recover (foreign file system). So even it there weren't tamper-proof
    screws on the chassis, you might face more of a challenge if you
    cloned the hard drive inside the recorder. Again, if there's a way
    to do that, typing the exact model number of the Tivo or whatever
    into Google, will tell you whether anyone succeeded via hard drive cloning.

3) PCI Express capture device ($99)

   http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100049

    Read the customer reviews on that one. Users use FRAPs, a separate program,
    to record from the card, rather than the provided software.

    Card has same limitation, records up to 1080i. The adapter cable appears
    to have YPbPr component input as an option.

In terms of who came out with some of that stuff first, this is an example
of some original hardware. These guys did a PCI Express version and a USB3
version. I see they're offering a new box here, but haven't looked at
the details yet. For the PCI Express design, as far as I know, these
guys did the first one.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity/techspecs/

A weakness with those, comes in a few places.

1) Bandwidth required. The PCI Express card, if it had more lanes, might
    have been able to more comfortably record uncompressed (so you can convert
    to DVD format later with DVD mastering software). The cards may use MJPEG
    compression, to drop the data rate to a point where it'll fit over the
    interface. Getting an onboard MPEG compressor, while that would seem a
    logical option, might not be as common.

2) Usually, the capture software provided with the product, sucks. But
    that tends to be true, even on TV tuner cards, so this is nothingnew.
    For virtually any capture cards or TV tuner cards, you always have to
    read the customer reviews, to see if there is *any* software you can use.
    Hardware is useless, if all the software is broken. Don't buy hardware,
    without knowing what the "software success path" is.

3) On the USB3 capture box, you may need a "full bandwidth" USB3 port and
    not a "half bandwidth" USB3 port. These USB3 capture boxes, are one of
    the few devices that can't accept inferior implementations of USB3. The
    BlackMagic USB3 capture box, actually comes with transfer rate test software,
    and the capture software won't run until it's tested the port. Ifthe transfer
    rate is too slow, it'll tell you, and then, won't do capture.

    The latest Intel and AMD motherboards, can have native USB3. Thatstands a
    good chance of running full rate. That won't be inferior. Only AMD motherboards
    with A70 or other A-series chipsets, have native USB3. Many AMd motherboards
    still rely on a third party USB3 chip, so AMD doesn't support it across the board.

    Sticking a USB3 card in the computer, can add USB3 ports. But, the slot in
    the computer, has to be PCI Express Revision 2, for the capture to be "full rate".
    Lots of computers have PCI Express Revision 1 for their x1 (tiny PCI Express) slots,
    and they capture at "half speed". The same thing can happen, evenfor USB3
    chips soldered to the motherboard - the PCI Express lane used, can be an inferior
    one, and the only time it matters (to date), is with one of theseUSB3 capture
    boxes. Only the latest motherboards, have PCI Express revision 2 x1 slots.
    And the documentation may make it difficult to determine what you've got.

So hardware bandwidth is an issue with either type of product. In the
case of the PCI Express, MJPEG compression attempts to get the picture
bandwidth down to the point, it'll travel over an x1 lane. In the USB3
box, you may need a good quality USB3 port, to make capture viable.
And that's when attempting to capture at the highest resolution possible.
If you capture at 720p, that may make capturing a bit easier.

Like any capture or tuner device, audio/video sync can be a problem,
which is why, again, you want to read the reviews, to see if the
two remain aligned over a two hour capture.

The DVD recorder concept, because it outputs a DVD directly, makes
a lot of these issues go away, but at the cost of the potential
quality of the output. Using capture devices, is to attempt to do
as good a job as possible. The output step (conversion to DVD format),
is childs play compared to the capture step. You can do that in
a more leisurely fashion.

    Paul

Thank you for your EXCELLENT reply!

It's possible everything I want is 1080p, will have to check. Armed
with this info, I may go back and DEMAND the capability to archive my
films in view of their los when I exchange the main control unit.
after all I've already paid their exhorbitant fees, so I should have
some ownership.

The satellite company misled me about providing me with international
stations ...on several levels. As a result, immediately after
installation they had to disable the totally isolated receiver. Thus,
I already have one dish, LNA, and cabling that cost something just
sitting there. I told them to come and retrieve the eyesore, but they
said they abandon such equipment. Which makes it mine now. Wonder what
I can do with that?
 
P

Paul

Robert said:
Thank you for your EXCELLENT reply!

It's possible everything I want is 1080p, will have to check. Armed
with this info, I may go back and DEMAND the capability to archive my
films in view of their los when I exchange the main control unit.
after all I've already paid their exhorbitant fees, so I should have
some ownership.

The satellite company misled me about providing me with international
stations ...on several levels. As a result, immediately after
installation they had to disable the totally isolated receiver. Thus,
I already have one dish, LNA, and cabling that cost something just
sitting there. I told them to come and retrieve the eyesore, but they
said they abandon such equipment. Which makes it mine now. Wonder what
I can do with that?

I'm not a "movie guy". So the answer is just a lot of "what I've read".
You really need to read the reviews on some of those boxes, to find
out how the users get their money's worth (or not).

I try to describe the pitfalls with some of that equipment, because
there are so many ways dealing with such content can fail. Like the
turning on of a "do not copy" bit, when perhaps the source of the
information (a local news broadcast), really doesn't give a rats ass.
They do stuff like that, just because they can (push a button, screw
the consumer). Not everything on TV is a movie, and needs generational
control.

Satellite equipment, may have a card installed of some sort, which
controls decryption of a satellite signal. There used to be a lot
of unencrypted satellite signals (some of my neighbors used to have
the big big satellite dishes, more than one of them, for that reason).
Now, a lot more of it is encrypted. A possibility, is once your
setup is "de-authorized", the equipment is relatively useless.
While there are hackers, who hack such things, and people who
sell the hack to make the satellite equipment work, that
probably isn't such a good idea. And if there's little to no
unencrypted content out there, then a receiver might not be
of much use to you.

Presumably there's a satellite forum around somewhere, and
searching using the company name, details of the equipment,
may reveal whether it's been hacked, or what other uses
you can find for it (mount a bird feeder etc).

Paul
 
R

Robert Macy

I'm not a "movie guy". So the answer is just a lot of "what I've read".
You really need to read the reviews on some of those boxes, to find
out how the users get their money's worth (or not).

I try to describe the pitfalls with some of that equipment, because
there are so many ways dealing with such content can fail. Like the
turning on of a "do not copy" bit, when perhaps the source of the
information (a local news broadcast), really doesn't give a rats ass.
They do stuff like that, just because they can (push a button, screw
the consumer). Not everything on TV is a movie, and needs generational
control.

Satellite equipment, may have a card installed of some sort, which
controls decryption of a satellite signal. There used to be a lot
of unencrypted satellite signals (some of my neighbors used to have
the big big satellite dishes, more than one of them, for that reason).
Now, a lot more of it is encrypted. A possibility, is once your
setup is "de-authorized", the equipment is relatively useless.
While there are hackers, who hack such things, and people who
sell the hack to make the satellite equipment work, that
probably isn't such a good idea. And if there's little to no
unencrypted content out there, then a receiver might not be
of much use to you.

Presumably there's a satellite forum around somewhere, and
searching using the company name, details of the equipment,
may reveal whether it's been hacked, or what other uses
you can find for it (mount a bird feeder etc).

    Paul

Thanks. Will check, do want to keep use legal. One of those high risk,
low gain things.
 

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