Anyone taken a look at Firebird browser?

[Dariusz]

Firebird works fine, it claims to be a beta version, but after 3 days of
intensive use, I haven't had ANY problems (I can't even say that about
IE6!). And I can use MyNetscape with it! I've tried OPERA as well, but
with it and every other browser I've tried, I felt like I was loading
features and stuff I would never use. There is a link to it (Firebird) on
the Mozilla site.

I am currently using version 0.61. I tried 0.7 but didn't like it. This
is what "issues" I still have with Firebird, although I keep using the 0.61
more than IE .

1.
In v0.7, removed some of the themes (especially the one I like to use with
no equivalent).

2.
Also in v0.7 they changed (and I can't find how to change it) the useful
top right bar which used to be able to search a word / phrase in the page
you're browsing - now it searches google - pointless as the address bar can
do that already !!! The search in page box was a plus over IE (rather than
"edit --> find on this page" menu).

3.
There is no way (easy for newbies) to move the files that keep your
settings to a directory of YOUR choice. This would be useful if you want
to keep the settings deliberately OUT of the hard drive / partition that
contains Windows (because you can forget to backup the directory and all
settings lost when you invariably have to reformat the windows partition).

4.
Would be nice to be able to edit the user settings like where you want the
cache without editing "user.js" and any other files (have it display in the
"options" box).

5.
Adding extensions to the browser, you can only disable them rather than
uninstall.

6.
Sometimes seems to screw up the viewing of pictures in a web page, I
_guess_ when the cache is nearly full (but then it should auto delete
ala LILO !!!)...

7.
After many attempts, I still cannot get Java to install / work with
Firebird despite the application being "registered" in Java's control
panel. No problems with the Flash plugin.

Overall though, it is a far better - and standards compliant browser than
all the others out there. It has tabbed browsing, which keeps the amount of
windows open down . And unlike with IE, when I had to do a reinstall of
Windows, the bookmarks got imported in the exact same order I have them
arranged when I exported them, thereby saving hours of time re-ordering
them that IE cost me.

Dariusz

 

[Andy Mabbett]

Spot the hypocrite:

As time goes by, I personally am becoming more and more opposed to the
mention of *any* betaware in this group. YMMV

Betaware is NOT freeware.

 

[JunkMonkey]

Andy,

I see no hypocrisy in Mr. Corliss' two posts. In one, he clarifies the
betaware status of the product in question (brought up by ME - not him)
without endorsing it. In the other post he questions the appropriateness of
that product being a part of this group at all.

I think he has come to the wrong conclusion, but there is no inconsistency
in his statements. Unless, of course you believe that he should have stood
on his principles and not have entered the discussion at all. That would
assume you are FULLY aware of all his opinions on this issue and on all
related issues that may have a bearing on those statements. I think you are
being WAY too hard on him

Spot the hypocrite:

As time goes by, I personally am becoming more and more opposed to the
mention of *any* betaware in this group. YMMV

Betaware is NOT freeware.

Betas are officially designated as such by Mozilla.org. They are
considered to be more stable than nightlies, but not as stable as a
final.

--
Andy Mabbett Reply to [my first name] [at] pigsonthewing.org.uk
USA imprisons children without trial, at Guantanamo Bay:
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2970279.stm>
<http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510582003?open&of=ENG-USA>

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Andy,

I see no hypocrisy in Mr. Corliss' two posts. In one, he clarifies
the betaware status of the product in question (brought up by ME - not
him) without endorsing it. In the other post he questions the
appropriateness of that product being a part of this group at all.

I think he has come to the wrong conclusion, but there is no
inconsistency in his statements. Unless, of course you believe that
he should have stood on his principles and not have entered the
discussion at all. That would assume you are FULLY aware of all his
opinions on this issue and on all related issues that may have a
bearing on those statements. I think you are being WAY too hard on
him

He's pretty much the original Corliss Stalker[1], JM. Unfortunately,
this sad obsession defines a whole new hobby group, around here, these
days.

[1]Might be in a tie with Vic Dura; certainly they're King Stalker and
Assistant King Stalker, in whichever order.

 

[JunkMonkey]

Thanks for the insight Blinky, I kind of suspected I was dealing with
someone who enjoys stirring things up. But we use the concept/word
hypocrisy WAY too often in my mind. All people have inconsistencies in
their beliefs and statements, that doesn't make them hypocrites, it pretty
much makes them average. I personally believe we should save the "H" word
for the worst offenders.

Andy,

I see no hypocrisy in Mr. Corliss' two posts. In one, he clarifies
the betaware status of the product in question (brought up by ME - not
him) without endorsing it. In the other post he questions the
appropriateness of that product being a part of this group at all.

I think he has come to the wrong conclusion, but there is no
inconsistency in his statements. Unless, of course you believe that
he should have stood on his principles and not have entered the
discussion at all. That would assume you are FULLY aware of all his
opinions on this issue and on all related issues that may have a
bearing on those statements. I think you are being WAY too hard on
him

He's pretty much the original Corliss Stalker[1], JM. Unfortunately,
this sad obsession defines a whole new hobby group, around here, these
days.

[1]Might be in a tie with Vic Dura; certainly they're King Stalker and
Assistant King Stalker, in whichever order.

--
Blinky Linux RU 297263
NEW 9/25/03:
MS Class Action Award Vouchers for California Residents
Detail --> http://snurl.com/settlement

 

[John Corliss]

JunkMonkey,
My reply is interspersed with quote.

Andy,
I see no hypocrisy in Mr. Corliss' two posts. In one, he clarifies the
betaware status of the product in question (brought up by ME - not him)
without endorsing it. In the other post he questions the appropriateness of
that product being a part of this group at all.
I think he has come to the wrong conclusion

Just curious, which conclusion are you referring to? The statement
about the difference between Mozilla's nightlies and their official
betas is pretty much correct as far as I can tell.

but there is no inconsistency
in his statements. Unless, of course you believe that he should have stood
on his principles and not have entered the discussion at all.

Of course, what Andy Mabbett believes and doesn't believe is of no
concern at least to ME whatsoever. 80)>
Becoming "more and more opposed" to discussion of betaware in this
group just reflects my personal feelings on the issue. Of course,
there is a vast difference between what *I* am opposed to and what the
majority of this group accepts. Since the majority of this group
thinks that it's okay to talk about betaware, I don't have a problem
with talking about it. Andy Mabbett isn't going to bully or trick me
into censoring my comments (or anything else, for that matter.)

That would
assume you are FULLY aware of all his opinions on this issue and on all
related issues that may have a bearing on those statements. I think you are
being WAY too hard on him

Andy is obsessed with stalking me and has *never* contributed ANYTHING
of any value to this group. He consistently trolls and twists things
around to make what he says seem logical, which it never is if one
really examines what he's saying. The only posts of his which are not
trolling are when he needs this group to provide him with some advice.

Andy Mabbett trolled:
*WHACK*

If I have the troll killfiled, I certainly don't want to quote his
spew in my posts.

--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html
Note that I can't see any of Andy Mabbett's troll posts
because I have him killfiled.

 

[Vic Dura]

Becoming "more and more opposed" to discussion of betaware in this
group just reflects my personal feelings on the issue. Of course,
there is a vast difference between what *I* am opposed to and what the
majority of this group accepts. Since the majority of this group
thinks that it's okay to talk about betaware, I don't have a problem
with talking about it.

Then why do you tell posters that it's off topic here? That's what
started that whole messy Dialog thread.

 

[dkg_ctc]

Then why do you tell posters that it's off topic here? That's what
started that whole messy Dialog thread.

I find John's flip-flopping on this issue humorous. In one breath, he
says that this group is unmoderated and as such he can't tell anyone
to not post about Dialog and betaware. He then proceeds to say that
they have absolutely no place in this group. Then, when someone
posted a notification about the newest version of Dialog, he/she was
accused by John of only posting the notification to troll and cause
trouble.

Probably the thing that I find most questionable about John's whole
attitude with regards to betaware, and Dialog specifically, is that he
acts as if his opinion carries more weight than the opinion of the
rest of the group--the group which, I might add, selected Dialog as
Pricelessware.

So to recap, he's not saying that you can't discuss betaware, just
that if you do you're an off-topic troller who values the group's
opinion more than his opinion (which is more important because he
authored a FAQ claiming that it is).

 

[Andy Mabbett]

I kind of suspected I was dealing with someone who enjoys stirring
things up.

Some things need "stirring up", as you put it.

But we use the concept/word hypocrisy WAY too often in my mind. All
people have inconsistencies in their beliefs and statements, that
doesn't make them hypocrites, it pretty much makes them average. I
personally believe we should save the "H" word for the worst offenders.

I did.

 

[Andy Mabbett]

Of course, what Andy Mabbett believes and doesn't believe is of no
concern at least to ME whatsoever. 80)>
Liar.

[...]
Andy Mabbett isn't going to bully or trick me into censoring my
comments (or anything else, for that matter.)

I'm not trying to, you fool.

Andy is obsessed with stalking me

Liar.

Have I told you to drink drain cleaning fluid?

Have I forged your ID to subscribe you to mailing lists (and been warned
by my ISP for doing so)?

Have I implied threats of violence?

Have I committed copyright theft on order to retouch photographs of you
(and been warned by my ISP for doing so)?

Have I used an announcement of the death of a family member to take
cheap shots at people who I disagree with?

No. Who has done those things? You. Who's obsessed? You!

and has *never* contributed ANYTHING of any value to this group.
Liar.

He consistently trolls and twists things around
Liar.

to make what he says seem logical, which it never is if one really
examines what he's saying.
Liar.

The only posts of his which are not trolling are when he needs this
group to provide him with some advice.
Liar.

Liar.

--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html
Note that I can't see any of Andy Mabbett's troll posts
because

....they remain a figment of your imagination.

 

[Andy Mabbett]

He's pretty much the original Corliss Stalker

You, like Corliss, are a liar. You cannot substantiate your facile
allegation.

Note my comments in this thread about Corliss' ID forgery copyright
theft and so on.

 

[Aaron]

Well personally, I think this group spends WAY too much time debating
whether something is freeware or not. It's really pointless, Is Firebird
in beta? Sure. Is the current mailwasher free crippleware? I would say
yes . Are they really "freeware" ? Beats me.

Do we really need think there is some ideal abstract Platonic unchanging
forms of what freeware is?

Perhaps Wittgenstein says it best, it's all a langague game and what
objects described by the same words (e.g games , freeware) have is a
"family resemblance" and not some mystical all including essence that all
of them must have.

That said, I think certain products (shareware,commerical*,cracks etc)
should definitely not be discussed, but those are areas where there is a
large concensus anyway.

It's the in between stuff that will give one trouble, and that's where
acting all uptight and acting as if one knows exactly what falls into the
freeware divide will cause a lot of problems. (Read: you will be
classified of being inconsistent, hypocrite etc)

Then why do you tell posters that it's off topic here? That's what
started that whole messy Dialog thread.

Was that the case? In any case, feel free to ignore John.For someone who
has no power, you sure give him lots of credit.



*Even that is sometimes not the case. I notice quite a lot of reference
to mailwasher pro that is almost outright advertising for example without
anyone yelling at them......... But given that mailwasher free is a much
beloved product of this group and the author has given mailwasher for
free for so long to so many people here , I suppose most of us let it
slide.


Aaron (my email is not mungled!)

 

[Andy Mabbett]

That said, I think certain products (shareware,commerical*,cracks etc)
should definitely not be discussed

You just did ;-)

 

[Vic Dura]

Well personally, I think this group spends WAY too much time debating
whether something is freeware or not. It's really pointless, Is Firebird
in beta? Sure. Is the current mailwasher free crippleware? I would say
yes . Are they really "freeware" ? Beats me.

Do we really need think there is some ideal abstract Platonic unchanging
forms of what freeware is?

Well said.

That said, I think certain products (shareware,commerical*,cracks etc)
should definitely not be discussed, but those are areas where there is a
large concensus anyway.

Agreed. The key word here is "large" consensus. A 51/49 just isn't
sufficient IMO to impose a "gag" sanction on a just barely minority
opinion in an alt.NG.

It's the in between stuff that will give one trouble, and that's where
acting all uptight and acting as if one knows exactly what falls into the
freeware divide will cause a lot of problems. (Read: you will be
classified of being inconsistent, hypocrite etc)


Was that the case? In any case, feel free to ignore John.For someone who
has no power, you sure give him lots of credit.

Rather than ignore Mr. Corliss, I think it's more important to
reprimand him when IMO he becomes abusive or presumptuous to visitors
vis-a-vis what is on/off topic.

However, I must admit that is *much* better behaved now than he was a
year or so ago.

 

[Andy Mabbett]

Rather than ignore Mr. Corliss, I think it's more important to
reprimand him when IMO he becomes abusive or presumptuous to visitors
vis-a-vis what is on/off topic.
Indeed...

However, I must admit that is *much* better behaved now than he was a
year or so ago.

.... it seems to be working.