Any way to start ISO or IMG Live-OS Images with Bootloader?

[Kerem Gümrükcü]

Hi,

well, i dont want to burn every ISO or IMG Image from
an OS (Linux or another Operating Systems that can start
from a Live System) on a single CD or DVD. Since i've never
done this before and i didnt found usefull information at all
doing a extensive google search (Maybe i did it with wrong
searching words) i would ask this here with multiposting, maybe
someone has a good solution for this.

Is there a bootloader that can start from a Live CD or OS
Image written on a ISO or IMG file, for example a Live
Linux System by keeping the Windows NTLDR untouched,
maybe a chainloader? I would like to list all the Live images
i want to be able to select for booting on a file. Best would be
a boot/chainloader that can read NTFS Partitions so i can leave
the already existing Disk untouched. Can this be done with NTLDR
and boot.ini? I dont think so, maybe?. There is a way to start Linux from
Boot.ini if you have a Image from the Linux partitions MBR, but
i would like to start from a NTFS with a chainloader. It should
work for Windows 2000/XP and also for the Vista Systems.

Short one: How to start a ISO/IMG OS Image from a Bootloader/Chainloader?
Should work an all NT based Systems 2000/XP/Vista

Any ideas or recommendations?

Thanks in advance,...

Regards

Kerem

--

 

[Volodymyr Shcherbyna]

Sorry, I have no idea regarding such kind of product. Since this question
appeared at development NG, I would suggest you to dig into implementation
of own boot loader Useful links to start:
http://www.nondot.org/sabre/os/files/Booting/bootsec1.zip

Good luck.

 

[Kerem Gümrükcü]

Hi Volodymyr,

thank you for the link. I know how to write a boot loader.
A little assembly, assemble, copy to first sector and thats it,...but
i think my question is a kind of impossible to answer. I was looking
for a Bootloader solution, but i think i have to stay on a linux solution
or still, yet using, Virtual PC Solution,...

The main reason why i wrote here and to all developer, driver developer
NGs was, because of the fact that you can find here a lot of people
doing own OS and Boot loaders. Maybe someone did something
like that before or know another bootloader that can handle this,..

Thanks anyway,...



Regards

Kerem

--

 

[Volodymyr Shcherbyna]

Actually, people who are making own operating systems are concentrated
mostly here: http://www.osdev.org/

 

[Kerem Gümrükcü]

Yes Buddy,

i totaly forgot this site! Thanks dude!

Regards

Kerem

--

 

[Dave English]

Hi,

well, i dont want to burn every ISO or IMG Image from
an OS (Linux or another Operating Systems that can start
from a Live System) on a single CD or DVD. Since i've never
done this before and i didnt found usefull information at all
doing a extensive google search (Maybe i did it with wrong
searching words) i would ask this here with multiposting, maybe
someone has a good solution for this.

Is there a bootloader that can start from a Live CD or OS
Image written on a ISO or IMG file, for example a Live
Linux System by keeping the Windows NTLDR untouched,
maybe a chainloader? I would like to list all the Live images
i want to be able to select for booting on a file. Best would be
a boot/chainloader that can read NTFS Partitions so i can leave
the already existing Disk untouched. Can this be done with NTLDR
and boot.ini? I dont think so, maybe?. There is a way to start Linux from
Boot.ini if you have a Image from the Linux partitions MBR, but
i would like to start from a NTFS with a chainloader. It should
work for Windows 2000/XP and also for the Vista Systems.

Short one: How to start a ISO/IMG OS Image from a Bootloader/Chainloader?
Should work an all NT based Systems 2000/XP/Vista

Any ideas or recommendations?

As other have said, these aren't really the groups for an answer to your
question.

This is because what you ask cannot be done in a Microsoft kernel.

What you need is not just a boot loader, you need something to at least
virtualise access to the boot CD, because you do not have a physical CD
but only an image file in a host operating system filing system. So it
is not just a boot loader that you need.

You need to boot your Live CD in a virtualisation program, such as
Microsoft Virtual PC or VMware Player (both free to use, by the way).
Alternatively, there is Hyper-V in the Beta of Windows Server 2008, but
I doubt if you want to go that far.

Regards

 

[Kerem Gümrükcü]

Hi Dave,

yes this is true. I was working with MSVPC,QEMU,Bochs, etc with
the Live images until i wanted to try them "on-the-fly" with as much as
possible "real" hardware since real hardware is always different than
this emulation stuff and you have the possibility of chaning hardware
components. At first it was obvious that a bootloader is not sufficient
but while knowing this i asked this question and also while knowing
that if i would start to write code, it virtually would end in a own virtual
machine and i dont have the time for this, so i have to stay at my old
virtualizations solutions,...

The MS Kernel is not able to do this, but the Linux can! So i am
about to create a own partition with a small linux and minimum
drivers to do this. I think this is a good solution. And is it no
problem anymore to read/write in both directions on the HDD
(Linux<->Windows) since both systems have drivers for the
common file systems they use, and here again in both directions!

Thank you for the Answer,...

Regards

Kerem


--

 

[Don Burn]

Actually, I will dispute the claim that Windows cannot do this. The NTLDR
would work if a rather weird SCSI mini-port driver was created that could
access the image. I suspect there are a ton of challenges here, but the
blanket statement that Windows could not do this is wrong.


--
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply

 

[Kerem Gümrükcü]

Hi Don,

I suspect there are a ton of challenges here, but the blanket statement
that Windows could not do this is wrong.

Sure, you are right if you have a driver that can mount
the image this will be possible but i dont have the time
to write it and it is ok still to use the emulators until someone
will do this and publish this,...

The blanket statement was meant for the moment. As long
as you run in kernel mode or even below it in our case
you are free to play with the hardware and implement your
own layer that can handle this, e.g. NTBOOTDD.SYS and
your code that handles this,..

Regards

Kerem

--

 

[Don Burn]

After I sent the last one, I realized also no one has mentioned WinPE which
Microsoft has finally made easier to get. There is still a learning curve,
but it could probably handle this.


--
Don Burn (MVP, Windows DDK)
Windows 2k/XP/2k3 Filesystem and Driver Consulting
Website: http://www.windrvr.com
Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr
Remove StopSpam to reply

 

[Kerem Gümrükcü]

Hi Don,

i have a couple of unused WinPE (XP) Disks on my desk which
i didnt used: What is your apporach on this? Sounds interesting,...

Regards

Kerem

--

 

[Kerem Gümrükcü]

Yes Dude,

you are right: RAM-Disk Support for Windows PE 2005 and Windows PE 2.0
which are also free with Windows AIK.

Don, you are the greatest, my "Today" hero!!!

Regards

Kerem

--

 

[Dave English]

Actually, I will dispute the claim that Windows cannot do this. The NTLDR
would work if a rather weird SCSI mini-port driver was created that could
access the image. I suspect there are a ton of challenges here, but the
blanket statement that Windows could not do this is wrong.

I wasn't intending to slight the MS Kernel here, I don't think a Linux
Kernel alone could do this either.

But unless the Live CD being booted has its own facilities to mount the
..iso image from the Windows filesystem, then any driver/windows kernel
will have to co-exist with the Live CDs kernel. It is not just a boot
leader (something only required during boot). CoLinux is one example of
this co-existence, but that requires a modified Linux Kernel.

In any case, Kerem appears content.

Regards

 

[Kerem Gümrükcü]

Hi Dave,

i would like to say not that "content" but in certain way i got my answer
on this.CoLinux is a special stuff and in some way dangerous to work
with on a windows systems, since as the name implies it works in
coexistence with windows and its kernel and if colinux fails, the complete
OS fails and renders your Windows completely useless (BSOD) and it
is not uncommon. Its is very performant but also a rare approach of
virtualization at all.


Thanks for ALL answers here,...

Regards

Kerem

--

 

[bilm]

"Kerem Gümrükcü"

Yes Dude,

you are right: RAM-Disk Support for Windows PE 2005 and Windows PE 2.0
which are also free with Windows AIK.

Don, you are the greatest, my "Today" hero!!!

Regards

Kerem

Don't forget Bart's PE Builder (BartPE)
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
advantages may be easier learning curve and more configurable
but I'm not familiar with the new Windows PE ... maybe they took
lessons from him and made it better.

bilm

 

[Kerem Gümrükcü]

Hi blim,

i am experienced on BartsPE, but i was not aware of the fact,
that Windows PE 2.0 was for free. The Only little"drawback",
but its not a real drawback is, that you have to build the PE
from a Winpe.wim but its ok since so you can create different
and user defined PE Images. Its good, since its a microsoft
original tool environment.

But just to clarify: This does not solve my original question, nor
does it helpme in doing the thing i wanted to do.I t is just something
Don told us "by the way", which i consider usefull for future tasks
but not really helpful to my original question (maybe in future). But
i am very thankful for that Information, since it was something that
i can use in my daily work, when time has come for it!

Greetings

Kerem

--

 

[bilm]

But just to clarify: This does not solve my original question, nor
does it helpme in doing the thing i wanted to do

Yes I understand. But after making your Bart or Win PE ISO file(s)
just configure whatever bootloader you use to point to them (and any
other ISOs you want... Linux, MAC, whatever). A CD is way too small,
you need to do this on a DVD.

I've used grub and lilo to multi-boot (from a DVD) various versions
of Linux. They should be able to boot a Bart or Win PE ISO file too.
Why not ? If the Win ISOs can be "single" booted from a disc, then
it can be part of a multi-boot. The booting process from a disc is
not related to any OS. All the stuff the OS needs is inside the ISO.
It's not like multi-booting from the HD that involves using NTLDR/boot.ini
in combination with the bootloader.

I confess I've never tried it but it doesn't seem like it should be too
difficult
to do.

There are numerous other (freeware) bootloaders that may be better or
easier to work with than grub and lilo.

bilm

 

[bilm]

But just to clarify: This does not solve my original question, nor

Yes I understand. But after making your Bart or Win PE ISO file(s)
just configure whatever bootloader you use to point to them (and any
other ISOs you want... Linux, MAC, whatever). A CD is way too small,
you need to do this on a DVD.

I've used grub and lilo to multi-boot (from a DVD) various versions
of Linux. They should be able to boot a Bart or Win PE ISO file too.
Why not ? If the Win ISOs can be "single" booted from a disc, then
it can be part of a multi-boot. The booting process from a disc is
not related to any OS. All the stuff the OS needs is inside the ISO.
It's not like multi-booting from the HD that involves using NTLDR/boot.ini
in combination with the bootloader.

I confess I've never tried it but it doesn't seem like it should be too
difficult
to do.

There are numerous other (freeware) bootloaders that may be better or
easier to work with than grub and lilo.

Check out this page on Bart's site describing (CD/DVD) single &
multi-boot methods ---> http://www.nu2.nu/bootcd/#whatis
You could maybe use his Diskemu program described here
---> http://www.nu2.nu/diskemu/
to multi-boot all your various Windows, Linux, MAC, whatever ISOs.

bilm

 

[bilm]

Creating a Multi-boot DVD
"I will show you just how easy it is to create your very own DVD consisting
of every Windows based operating system you could want as well as how
to add support and diagnostic tools as well. You will have one disc with
every operating system and support tool you could ever need!"

These are multiple operating systems on one DVD and booted from that
DVD. It does not involve the HD. There is no reason why you could not
include Linux and/or the MAC OS.

The above tutorial is at http://flyakite.msfn.org/

If you google this subject you will find other methods and tutorials as
well.

bilm