ANN: XPE Chat on 12/18: Securing and Servicing Embedded Devices

  • Thread starter Michael Fosmire [MSFT]
  • Start date
M

Michael Fosmire [MSFT]

Title: Windows XP Embedded Chat: Securing and Servicing Embedded Devices

December 18, 2003
10:00 - 11:00 A.M. Pacific time
1:00 - 2:00 P.M. Eastern time
18:00 - 19:00 GMT/BST

Description: Join the Windows XP Embedded Product Team for a discussion on
securing and servicing embedded devices. What are some best practices to
keep in mind when thinking about servicing? How do you factor in servicing
into device design? Get your questions answered about Device Update Agent.
Learn about initiatives that the product group is engaged in with respect to
streamlining our QFE release process.

To join this chat, and to get a listing of additional chats, visit
http://msdn.microsoft.com/chats


--
Thanks!
Michael Fosmire
Community PM/MVP Lead, Windows Embedded

This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
M

Mark K Vallevand

Well, in all their infinite wisdom, the network admins have decided that
leaving an open port for chats with Microsoft is a security hazard. No,
they won't reconsider. Never let policy be affected by the need to do real
work. Hmmmpf.

My first question would have been:

When will there be support for running XP hot fix executables on XPe images?

My second question set is:

What port (or whatever) needs to be enabled to allow chat to work? How do I
convince the network admins that this chat is safe? Isn't there a way to
make chat work for paranoid companies?
 
M

Michael Fosmire [MSFT]

Just a reminder that this chat is just getting under way.

-mike


- This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
M

Michael Fosmire [MSFT]

Response to your question courtesy of Jon Fincher:

We expect this to be available in mid-January. Recent changes to the desktop
QFE installer are requiring some more work on the technical side.



I'm looking into your second question.

-mike



This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
M

Michael Fosmire [MSFT]

We are working on this and after March we will be using a different and more
secure port.

In the current infrastructure, you'd need access to port 6667. This will
change after March to a port that is enabled by all customers, port 80.



There will be a whitepaper published on this soon. The text of this
whitepaper is below.



hth,

-mike



This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.



Firewall configuration

For MSN

Chat connection.



Purpose of this paper



We want to help you to configure their network to allow access to the MSN
chat environment where we do all of our online technical chats. By following
these steps you can open the necessary ports, but only for the selected IP
addresses - keeping out any attempts to access your networks over this port
from any other address on the internet.



Background - issues with opening port 6667



6667 is the only port used by the MSN Chat client. It's used for standard
IRCX chatting. We don't allow file transfers or anything like that via our
service.



Port 6667 is a fairly standard chat port that has been used by chat services
for years this, Many network administrators have blocked access to it and
will be reluctant to remove their blocks on the port, for these key reasons:

a.. Productivity: Chatting is usually viewed as unproductive behavior by
most corporations. However, the Technical Chats hosted by MSN for TechNet
provide useful information and direct access to Microsoft experts to help IT
Pros do their jobs more effectively.
b.. Viruses: Because it is a standard chat port, port 6667 is a favorite
port of trojan horse designers. They frequently build their programs to
communicate on port 6667 either as a chat server or as a client that
connects to a chat service as a "bot". As a result, many of the documents
that network administrators might reference for security advice will tell
them to block 6667, among others. .Blocking the port of course doesn't
prevent infection, but it may reduce the effectiveness of a trojan once it
has infected their network. The initial infection is not done via this port.
Instead, the viruses use this port for communication. The following
solutions will minimize that vulnerability:
c..


Configuration for access to chat while maintaining security on your network.



..

Please be very careful when creating access rules or adding items to your
access lists on your routers, as mistakes can remove access or open your
network to types of access you had not intended. The best way to do this is
to set this up in a test environment where you can make sure that your
changes do not open any unforeseen access



Option 1

This option allows all users direct access to the chat servers and can be
considered the least secure" of the three options presented here.



1.. Verify that web browsing is enabled. (This would mean a web proxy or
TCP port 80 outbound)
2.. Setup up an access rule on your proxy server or firewall.
3.. In this rule open TCP port 6667
4.. Set this port to be open outbound for all clients
5.. Set them to only allow incoming information on these ports from
chat.msn.com IP addresses listed below (these may change; this is up to date
as of [date], contact [] for updates.
207.68.167.157

207.68.167.158

207.68.167.159

207.68.167.160

207.68.167.161

207.68.167.162

207.68.167.163

207.68.167.164

207.68.167.165

207.68.167.166

6.. Test access to your network to make sure that this port is only open
for connection to the specific URL of MSN chat.


Option 2.

This option will allow users to access the MSN chat servers only if they are
running the correct proxy client for your proxy or firewall solution.



1. Verify that web browsing is enabled. (This would mean a web proxy or TCP
port 80 outbound)

2. Setup up an access rule on your proxy server or firewall.

3. In this rule open TCP port 6667

4. Set this port to be open outbound only for your proxy server.

5. Set them to only allow incoming information on these ports from
chat.msn.com IP addresses listed below (these may change; this is up to date
as of [date], contact [] for updates.

207.68.167.157

207.68.167.158

207.68.167.159

207.68.167.160

207.68.167.161

207.68.167.162

207.68.167.163

207.68.167.164

207.68.167.165

207.68.167.166

6. Make sure this rule only allows the port to be open inbound to your proxy
server IP



Option 3

This option will not have any traffic coming into your network on port 6667
but may require additional hardware to implement. You should note that
unless the users needing access provide their own terminal server on the
internet that this solution will require new hardware and licenses for the
terminal server that would be setup.



1.. Open port 3389 outbound on your firewall
2.. Provide a terminal server outside your firewall for the users to
connect to.
3.. Optionally they can use their own terminal server if it is already
running on the internet.


This solution is definitely the most secure as you are opening no additional
inbound ports at all. However it does require a terminal server on the
internet, either a corporate server or a server that the users are providing
themselves.
 
H

Heidi Linda eMVP

Michael Fosmire said:
We are working on this and after March we will be using a different and more
secure port.

In the current infrastructure, you'd need access to port 6667. This will
change after March to a port that is enabled by all customers, port 80.
So they're IRC based? Makes it somewhat annoying that I've never been able
to access the things from my mac... will the new version work on macs? Not
that it's really relevant for me, now that I've bought a PC, though...
 

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