AM Radio Interference

M

manmeil0815

Hello all you friendly helpers,
Does anybody know what causes AM Radio Interference with Desktop
Systems.
I have tried the Belkin EFI & RFI filter. It does not seem to make any
difference. As soon as I boot up my desktop, the AM Radio reception in
our house goes grazy.
I don't have this problem with our Notebook!!
Much appreciciate any feedback.
 
W

w_tom

What Belkin filter? Did you speculate that a Belkin
protector is a filter?

Now from desktop systems is often due to clones built on
price - therefore missing essential functions such as the
required RFI filters in power supply and on motherboard.
There is no plug-in solution to your problem. Your problem is
solved at its source. For example, what is that power
supply. Does it even specifically claim to meet FCC
requirements? If not, start asking yourself what other
essential functions are also missing inside that computer.

AM radio is one good diagnostic tool it identify computers
that are missing essential functions. A symptom that should
only have you asking more embarrassing questions.
 
C

Chuck

In many situations, the PC case is not built to provide strong shielding.
The power supply and any connection that goes thru the case from or to an
external device are also suspect. How close is the AM radio, and how
distant are the stations? Does the branch circuit feeding the PC have a good
safety ground? Is the AM radio on the same branch circuit?
In most situations the noise from the PC can be reduced, but not eliminated.
 
S

S Pamfree

Hi Tom,
Thank you very much for great response.
The Belkin is a small plug in surge surpressor with filters. Of course
it didn't work.
I will have to find out if there are any computers on the market, free
of this problem.
Thanks again
Manfred
 
S

S Pamfree

Hi Chuck,
Thank you very much for your great response.
The interference is throughout the entire house. Regardless where I
plug in the radio. I think it carries through the electrical system.
The house is only 2 years old. Everything is properly grounded
I begin to wonder if there are any PC's on the market, free of this
problem.
Thanks again
Have a great day
Manfred
 
W

w_tom

That filter inside the Belkin exists. And then we apply
numbers to that filter. A numbers so small that the filter
really does not exist. Many protector manufacturers make
claims without numbers - so that you will believe myths. That
Belkin also claims ineffective surge suppression AND can even
contribute to damage of the adjacent hardware. But again,
notice the missing numbers.

Any filter that is going to work on a power cord is already
inside the power supply. Filtering all but required by FCC
and by so many other nation's regulations. Some power
supplies are being marketed to technically naive computer
assemblers who hype how much cheaper their computers cost. The
AM radio should identify some such products.

Some computer assemblers buy only on watts and price. To
sell a power supply at less than $60 retail, that filter is
but another essential function routinely forgotten in cheaper
power supplies. Same filter that the Belkin also does not
(for all practical purposes) provide. Belkin 'power
protection' products also may deceive by forgetting to provide
numbers and other significant facts. But then if that Belkin
filter exists, how many dBs of filtering for each frequency?
Why did they not provide those spec numbers? Because they
don't provide any useful filtering.
 
W

w_tom

Properly manufactured PC should not cause the problems you
are suffering. It is required even by FCC regulations. A PC
can only interfere with an AM station that is already very
weak.
 
J

Jim Macklin

In the USA the FCC certifies computers and other devices
under FCC Part 15. You'll see a label for all legally
imported and sold equipment. But there are two standards,
part A and B. Part A applies to office equipment and the
standard allows more RF emissions since office are
considered industrial zones with a higher allowed level if
interference.

The use of FCC Part 15A equipment in residential areas is no
fully legal. If your neighbors report interference the FCC
will make you replace the equipment or take other action to
stop the interference with others use of their equipment.

The reason the ;laptop doesn't cause RFI is that it is Class
B, look on the bottom and you'll see the label.

The case on the computer has to be a Faraday cage,
electrically closed to keep the RF energy inside the
computer. If it has bad wires, poor connections and
especially a plastic window so you can see all those lights
and fancy fans, you have a perfect RF transmitter.

If you have to have windows and such, then you need to have
a grounded screen (like in the door of a microwave oven) to
contain the RFI.

Google for "fcc class b" and you see all the info, here is a
good link from nearly a million hits..
.... http://www.emclab.umr.edu/emcproc.html
UMR EMC LAB: EMC Regulations
... The FCC Rules and Regulations, Title 47, Part 15,
Subpart B regulates ... Class B devices are those that are
marketed for use in the home. ...
www.emclab.umr.edu/emcproc.html - 7k - Cached -
Similar pages

--
The people think the Constitution protects their
rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.




| That filter inside the Belkin exists. And then we apply
| numbers to that filter. A numbers so small that the
filter
| really does not exist. Many protector manufacturers make
| claims without numbers - so that you will believe myths.
That
| Belkin also claims ineffective surge suppression AND can
even
| contribute to damage of the adjacent hardware. But again,
| notice the missing numbers.
|
| Any filter that is going to work on a power cord is
already
| inside the power supply. Filtering all but required by
FCC
| and by so many other nation's regulations. Some power
| supplies are being marketed to technically naive computer
| assemblers who hype how much cheaper their computers cost.
The
| AM radio should identify some such products.
|
| Some computer assemblers buy only on watts and price. To
| sell a power supply at less than $60 retail, that filter
is
| but another essential function routinely forgotten in
cheaper
| power supplies. Same filter that the Belkin also does not
| (for all practical purposes) provide. Belkin 'power
| protection' products also may deceive by forgetting to
provide
| numbers and other significant facts. But then if that
Belkin
| filter exists, how many dBs of filtering for each
frequency?
| Why did they not provide those spec numbers? Because they
| don't provide any useful filtering.
|
| S, Pamfree wrote:
| > Hi Tom,
| > Thank you very much for great response.
| > The Belkin is a small plug in surge surpressor with
filters. Of course
| > it didn't work.
| > I will have to find out if there are any computers on
the market, free
| > of this problem.
| > Thanks again
| > Manfred
| >
| > On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:55:16 -0400, w_tom
| >> What Belkin filter? Did you speculate that a Belkin
| >> protector is a filter?
| >>
| >> Now from desktop systems is often due to clones built
on
| >> price - therefore missing essential functions such as
the
| >> required RFI filters in power supply and on
motherboard.
| >> There is no plug-in solution to your problem. Your
problem is
| >> solved at its source. For example, what is that power
| >> supply. Does it even specifically claim to meet FCC
| >> requirements? If not, start asking yourself what other
| >> essential functions are also missing inside that
computer.
| >>
| >> AM radio is one good diagnostic tool it identify
computers
| >> that are missing essential functions. A symptom that
should
| >> only have you asking more embarrassing questions.
 
S

S Pamfree

Hi Jim,
Thank you very much.
Your Information was really most helpful.
It was quite an eye opener.
I know now what to look for.
Thanks again and have great day
Manfred
 
J

Jim Macklin

Glad I could help.


<S Pamfree> wrote in message
|
| Hi Jim,
| Thank you very much.
| Your Information was really most helpful.
| It was quite an eye opener.
| I know now what to look for.
| Thanks again and have great day
| Manfred
|
|
|
| On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:07:59 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
|
| >In the USA the FCC certifies computers and other devices
| >under FCC Part 15. You'll see a label for all legally
| >imported and sold equipment. But there are two
standards,
| >part A and B. Part A applies to office equipment and the
| >standard allows more RF emissions since office are
| >considered industrial zones with a higher allowed level
if
| >interference.
| >
| >The use of FCC Part 15A equipment in residential areas is
no
| >fully legal. If your neighbors report interference the
FCC
| >will make you replace the equipment or take other action
to
| >stop the interference with others use of their equipment.
| >
| >The reason the ;laptop doesn't cause RFI is that it is
Class
| >B, look on the bottom and you'll see the label.
| >
| >The case on the computer has to be a Faraday cage,
| >electrically closed to keep the RF energy inside the
| >computer. If it has bad wires, poor connections and
| >especially a plastic window so you can see all those
lights
| >and fancy fans, you have a perfect RF transmitter.
| >
| >If you have to have windows and such, then you need to
have
| >a grounded screen (like in the door of a microwave oven)
to
| >contain the RFI.
| >
| >Google for "fcc class b" and you see all the info, here
is a
| >good link from nearly a million hits..
| >... http://www.emclab.umr.edu/emcproc.html
| >UMR EMC LAB: EMC Regulations
| > ... The FCC Rules and Regulations, Title 47, Part
15,
| >Subpart B regulates ... Class B devices are those that
are
| >marketed for use in the home. ...
| > www.emclab.umr.edu/emcproc.html - 7k - Cached -
| >Similar pages
| >
| > --
| > The people think the Constitution protects their
| >rights;
| > But government sees it as an obstacle to be
overcome.
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >| >| That filter inside the Belkin exists. And then we
apply
| >| numbers to that filter. A numbers so small that the
| >filter
| >| really does not exist. Many protector manufacturers
make
| >| claims without numbers - so that you will believe
myths.
| >That
| >| Belkin also claims ineffective surge suppression AND
can
| >even
| >| contribute to damage of the adjacent hardware. But
again,
| >| notice the missing numbers.
| >|
| >| Any filter that is going to work on a power cord is
| >already
| >| inside the power supply. Filtering all but required by
| >FCC
| >| and by so many other nation's regulations. Some power
| >| supplies are being marketed to technically naive
computer
| >| assemblers who hype how much cheaper their computers
cost.
| >The
| >| AM radio should identify some such products.
| >|
| >| Some computer assemblers buy only on watts and price.
To
| >| sell a power supply at less than $60 retail, that
filter
| >is
| >| but another essential function routinely forgotten in
| >cheaper
| >| power supplies. Same filter that the Belkin also does
not
| >| (for all practical purposes) provide. Belkin 'power
| >| protection' products also may deceive by forgetting to
| >provide
| >| numbers and other significant facts. But then if that
| >Belkin
| >| filter exists, how many dBs of filtering for each
| >frequency?
| >| Why did they not provide those spec numbers? Because
they
| >| don't provide any useful filtering.
| >|
| >| S, Pamfree wrote:
| >| > Hi Tom,
| >| > Thank you very much for great response.
| >| > The Belkin is a small plug in surge surpressor with
| >filters. Of course
| >| > it didn't work.
| >| > I will have to find out if there are any computers on
| >the market, free
| >| > of this problem.
| >| > Thanks again
| >| > Manfred
| >| >
| >| > On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:55:16 -0400, w_tom
| >| >> What Belkin filter? Did you speculate that a
Belkin
| >| >> protector is a filter?
| >| >>
| >| >> Now from desktop systems is often due to clones
built
| >on
| >| >> price - therefore missing essential functions such
as
| >the
| >| >> required RFI filters in power supply and on
| >motherboard.
| >| >> There is no plug-in solution to your problem. Your
| >problem is
| >| >> solved at its source. For example, what is that
power
| >| >> supply. Does it even specifically claim to meet FCC
| >| >> requirements? If not, start asking yourself what
other
| >| >> essential functions are also missing inside that
| >computer.
| >| >>
| >| >> AM radio is one good diagnostic tool it identify
| >computers
| >| >> that are missing essential functions. A symptom
that
| >should
| >| >> only have you asking more embarrassing questions.
| >
|
 
E

Eric Furness

In many situations, the PC case is not built to provide strong shielding.
The power supply and any connection that goes thru the case from or to an
external device are also suspect. How close is the AM radio, and how
distant are the stations? Does the branch circuit feeding the PC have a good
safety ground? Is the AM radio on the same branch circuit?
In most situations the noise from the PC can be reduced, but not eliminated.

As an amateur radio op using pc for digital ops I have found most of
the rf noise comes from the CRT display. I switched to LCD and noise
now almost completely gone. I had tried ferrites on CRT power and vga
cable before with poor results.
However if you have a plastic case, see through, etc. all bets are
off.


Eric
 
H

Howard Brazee

Hello all you friendly helpers,
Does anybody know what causes AM Radio Interference with Desktop
Systems.
I have tried the Belkin EFI & RFI filter. It does not seem to make any
difference. As soon as I boot up my desktop, the AM Radio reception in
our house goes grazy.
I don't have this problem with our Notebook!!
Much appreciciate any feedback.

Boot up your computer with your monitor turned off. Find out whether the
problem is with the monitor or the computer.
 
N

nicholas

Howard said:
Boot up your computer with your monitor turned off. Find out whether the
problem is with the monitor or the computer.

I found my AM radio interference problem to be my power supply. Checking further, even some
expensive power supplies provide AM interference. I settled on an A open, and that fixed my
interference problem.
 
J

Jim Macklin

Check FCC certification (for all hardware/systems) to be FCC
Part 15 Class B to reduce RFI to within limits.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



| Howard Brazee wrote:
| > On 27-Apr-2005, (e-mail address removed) wrote:
| >
| >
| >>Hello all you friendly helpers,
| >>Does anybody know what causes AM Radio Interference with
Desktop
| >>Systems.
| >>I have tried the Belkin EFI & RFI filter. It does not
seem to make any
| >>difference. As soon as I boot up my desktop, the AM
Radio reception in
| >>our house goes grazy.
| >>I don't have this problem with our Notebook!!
| >>Much appreciciate any feedback.
| >
| >
| > Boot up your computer with your monitor turned off.
Find out whether the
| > problem is with the monitor or the computer.
|
| I found my AM radio interference problem to be my power
supply. Checking further, even some
| expensive power supplies provide AM interference. I
settled on an A open, and that fixed my
| interference problem.
|
|
|
| --
| Nicholas
| :)
|
| Please reply to this newsgroup
 

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