All latest-gen cards a kludge-job on AGP bus?

[eventerke]

After giving up on making my X800XL work in my motherboard, I'm
wondering if I'd have the same problem with a 6800GT. I understand the
X800 has a bridge chip to connect to the AGP bus - this seems to be
what breaks AGP Writes (NOT fastwrites!) on my system. For most modern
games - Doom3, FarCry, etc. - this seems to have no noticable effect.
They ran great on the card, and 3dmark benches were right up there as
well. The graphics engine used in my favorite 2 racing sims seems to
rely on this feature heavily, and gives noticably worse performance
than my 9700Pro did (which shows AGP Writes on).
I'm wondering if all these latest-gen cards were engineered with PCI
Express in mind, making it a bad idea to get an AGP version from ATI or
nVidia - even though I could get a dual-core x64 mb with AGP.
Anyone have more technical insight? Seems like AGP is well and truly
dead if you have any hope of using the latest stuff. I think the only
thing I'll be able to transition on to the next gaming rig is the
400Mhz CL2 memory and SATA drives .

Kendt

PS - On the bright side, it does give me an excuse to go 64-bit in the
near future .

 

[Richard Gnutered]

I've got an asus p4c800 (i875 chipset w/ agp) and an X800XL agp.. AGP Writes
are on when i run smartgart (and yes i know the diff between this and and
fast writes)


i'd recommend uninstalling your graphics drivers, installing the latest
chipset drivers (like the intel inf package)
make sure you got Directx 9 latest installed.. and then reinstall graphics
drivers.

 

[eventerke]

Thanks, did all that, no go.
Seems like a particular problem between the card and the VIA KT600
chipset on my board. I even tried forcibly disabling smartgart and
editing the registry to indicate that AGP Writes tested OK and should
be on - the driver still disables the feature.
I just put my 9700Pro back in - AGP Writes back on!

Thanks anyway,
Kendt

PS - no digs at VIA, please . Next MB will be an nForce x64.

 

[NightSky 421]

After giving up on making my X800XL work in my motherboard, I'm
wondering if I'd have the same problem with a 6800GT. I understand the
X800 has a bridge chip to connect to the AGP bus - this seems to be
what breaks AGP Writes (NOT fastwrites!) on my system. For most modern
games - Doom3, FarCry, etc. - this seems to have no noticable effect.
They ran great on the card, and 3dmark benches were right up there as
well. The graphics engine used in my favorite 2 racing sims seems to
rely on this feature heavily, and gives noticably worse performance
than my 9700Pro did (which shows AGP Writes on).
I'm wondering if all these latest-gen cards were engineered with PCI
Express in mind, making it a bad idea to get an AGP version from ATI or
nVidia - even though I could get a dual-core x64 mb with AGP.
Anyone have more technical insight? Seems like AGP is well and truly
dead if you have any hope of using the latest stuff. I think the only
thing I'll be able to transition on to the next gaming rig is the
400Mhz CL2 memory and SATA drives .

Kendt

PS - On the bright side, it does give me an excuse to go 64-bit in the
near future .

Heh, well, I saw your previous posts on this topic, and if you plan to
upgrade to 64-bit CPU and a new PCI-E motherboard later this year, I don't
think it would kill you to just stick with the 9700 Pro until then. That's
what I'd do. In fact, I have a 9800 Pro 128MB in my main computer (not much
faster than your card) and I'm not upgrading until next year. Chances are
I'll end up with a whole new system though given all of the changes that
have happened to the PC in the last two years since I last built a gaming
box. I hope you were able to return your X800XL for a refund at least!

 

[eventerke]

Yeah - a real pain since it obviously works for some people. I ran
across some posts of people having the same problems with 9x00 cards on
KT600 boards, so I think it is definitely an ATI/VIA interaction.
Tried one last time upping the AGP voltage (no luck even at 1.85v) ,
but my m/b doesn't allow adjusting AGP driving values, so that route
was out.
With the card going back I can shut up now .
Kendt

 

[John Russell]

After giving up on making my X800XL work in my motherboard, I'm
wondering if I'd have the same problem with a 6800GT. I understand the
X800 has a bridge chip to connect to the AGP bus - this seems to be
what breaks AGP Writes (NOT fastwrites!) on my system. For most modern
games - Doom3, FarCry, etc. - this seems to have no noticable effect.
They ran great on the card, and 3dmark benches were right up there as
well. The graphics engine used in my favorite 2 racing sims seems to
rely on this feature heavily, and gives noticably worse performance
than my 9700Pro did (which shows AGP Writes on).
I'm wondering if all these latest-gen cards were engineered with PCI
Express in mind, making it a bad idea to get an AGP version from ATI or
nVidia - even though I could get a dual-core x64 mb with AGP.
Anyone have more technical insight? Seems like AGP is well and truly
dead if you have any hope of using the latest stuff. I think the only
thing I'll be able to transition on to the next gaming rig is the
400Mhz CL2 memory and SATA drives .

Kendt

PS - On the bright side, it does give me an excuse to go 64-bit in the
near future .

Never mind the kludge factor, what about the cost? AGP versions of
PCI-express cards usually cost more. You should have saved the money and put
it to a system upgrade.

 

[eventerke]

Which is exactly what I'm going to do. The card was enough of a
bargain that if it had worked flawlessly I would have got my money's
worth out of 6mos gameplay. But I at least learned a lesson - no more
VIA!

Thanks,
Kendt

 

[John Russell]

Which is exactly what I'm going to do. The card was enough of a
bargain that if it had worked flawlessly I would have got my money's
worth out of 6mos gameplay. But I at least learned a lesson - no more
VIA!

Thanks,
Kendt

But you've already paid the extra for the AGP version? Your now going to
have to buy a new pci-express card as part of the upgrade.

Also the PCI-express "generation" cards, even if equipped with an AGP bridge
chip, needed a more powerful CPU to keep them busy. They are crying out
for a new top end motherbaord/cpu. not last years technology.

 

[Tom]

But you've already paid the extra for the AGP version? Your now going to
have to buy a new pci-express card as part of the upgrade.

Around here the AGP versions are cheaper then the PCI Express versions of
many video cards. X800XL & 6600 GT are examples.

Also the PCI-express "generation" cards, even if equipped with an AGP
bridge chip, needed a more powerful CPU to keep them busy. They are
crying out for a new top end motherbaord/cpu. not last years technology.

I hope you're not implying AGP motherboards & CPUs aren't good enough for
the PCI-Express generation cards. I have an Athlon 64 4000 running my
X800XL and it's more than enough.

This setup will be enough for at least a year and by then I figure IBM will
have decided PCI-Express isn't fast enough ( or that they need to sell more
motherboards) and developed a new technology. My money is on them calling
it AGP Express.

Tom

 

[Tom]

This setup will be enough for at least a year and by then I figure IBM
will have decided PCI-Express isn't fast enough ( or that they need to
sell more motherboards) and developed a new technology. My money is on
them calling it AGP Express.

Typo - I meant Intel not IBM.

Tom

 

[John Russell]

Around here the AGP versions are cheaper then the PCI Express versions of
many video cards. X800XL & 6600 GT are examples.


I hope you're not implying AGP motherboards & CPUs aren't good enough for
the PCI-Express generation cards. I have an Athlon 64 4000 running my
X800XL and it's more than enough.

This setup will be enough for at least a year and by then I figure IBM
will have decided PCI-Express isn't fast enough ( or that they need to
sell more motherboards) and developed a new technology. My money is on
them calling it AGP Express.

Tom

There are more 32bit CPU AGP systems out there than 64 bit systems!

 

[eventerke]

Special circumstances - there was a sale that made this X800XL AGP
cheaper than the PCIe version. And your second paragraph supports my
plan (returning the X800XL) - rather than buy an nVidia next-gen AGP
card, just live with what I have and build a system designed to take
advantage of a high-end card later this year.

Kendt

 

[Doug]

According to pricewatch you're completely assbackwards as far as that
statement.

 

[John Russell]

According to pricewatch you're completely assbackwards as far as that
statement.

At low end of the market where GPU and memory costs are low, and PCI-express
sales are slow, then AGP card costs more.

 

[Doug]

You're right, but even on the high-end certain PCIe parts are cheaper than
AGP. Actually I don't see how you can say this phenomenon is relegated to
high-end or low-end, it seems the prices differ all over the place for the
same part (mem capacity/speed, GPU speed).

 

[John Russell]

You're right, but even on the high-end certain PCIe parts are cheaper than
AGP. Actually I don't see how you can say this phenomenon is relegated to
high-end or low-end, it seems the prices differ all over the place for the
same part (mem capacity/speed, GPU speed).

At the low end the extra cost the bridge chip is more significant than at
the high end where memory and GPU prices are the driving factor.

Also when ever a new standard arrives graphics card makers have to juggle
the conflicting aims of continuing to supply the old market whilst
encouriging users to switch to the new. They may sign contracts for pci-e
GPU's and then use them in native pci-e or agp bridged as the market
requires.