AIW 9700 Pro issue

[R. J. Salvi]

I had a strange thing happen when trying to install an ATI AIW 9700 Pro in a
Tyan S2460...after connecting the aux 12V connector (floppy power connector)
to the card, when I power the unit up, everything lights up/spins for a
second, then dies. With a Radeon 9000 Pro it boots fine.

Mobo: Tyan S2460
BIOS: 1.04 (set so VGA does not use an IRQ)
PSU: Antec 550W
PCI cards in 5 of the slots (sound, USB 2.0, TV, NIC, controller card)
Dual 2600+ MP Bartons (266MHz FSB)
120GB HD
1GB (2 x 512) DDR266 (registered)

I haven't spent much time troubleshooting the unit yet, but I'm curious if
anyone has had a similar issue and what the workaround was. OR, is there
something obvious you see from my hardware config that I'm missing (IRQ
problem, etc). Thx.

 

[Homer]

You need a better power supply.

 

[CipheR]

I had a strange thing happen when trying to install an ATI AIW 9700 Pro in a
Tyan S2460...after connecting the aux 12V connector (floppy power connector)
to the card, when I power the unit up, everything lights up/spins for a
second, then dies. With a Radeon 9000 Pro it boots fine.

Mobo: Tyan S2460
BIOS: 1.04 (set so VGA does not use an IRQ)
PSU: Antec 550W
PCI cards in 5 of the slots (sound, USB 2.0, TV, NIC, controller card)
Dual 2600+ MP Bartons (266MHz FSB)
120GB HD
1GB (2 x 512) DDR266 (registered)

I haven't spent much time troubleshooting the unit yet, but I'm curious if
anyone has had a similar issue and what the workaround was. OR, is there
something obvious you see from my hardware config that I'm missing (IRQ
problem, etc). Thx.

I would try that 9700 Pro in a different system if possible, sounds
like you have gotten ahold of a bad one... That PSU should obviously
be more than enough, and Antec makes some of the best on the market.

CipheR

 

[R. J. Salvi]

I would try that 9700 Pro in a different system if possible, sounds
like you have gotten ahold of a bad one... That PSU should obviously
be more than enough, and Antec makes some of the best on the market.

My feelings too regarding the PSU. And yes, the card works fine in another
system.

It was suggested to me by a fellow in the Tyan newsgroup that I might try
using a 12V connector that has nothing else connected to it except the AIW.
Sounds like a possibility. Thx.

 

[CipheR]

My feelings too regarding the PSU. And yes, the card works fine in another
system.

It was suggested to me by a fellow in the Tyan newsgroup that I might try
using a 12V connector that has nothing else connected to it except the AIW.
Sounds like a possibility. Thx.

I made the ultimate mistake of assuming you had already done that,
it's listed in bold in the manual if I remember correctly. Excellent
cards but power hungry

CipheR

 

[Paul Murphy]

My feelings too regarding the PSU. And yes, the card works fine in another
system.

It was suggested to me by a fellow in the Tyan newsgroup that I might try
using a 12V connector that has nothing else connected to it except the
AIW. Sounds like a possibility. Thx.
--
Robert J. Salvi, Ambiance Acoustics
http://www.ambianceacoustics.com
San Diego, CA USA
(858) 485-7514

Not only should you try that but the S2460 BIOS must be set to allow the VGA
card to have its own IRQ. Both the S2460 and the AIW 9700 Pro are very power
hungry on the +5 Volt rail (even though a floppy type connector is used on
the 9700 Pro which also supplies 12 volts). I note that you list a TV Card
as well as the AIW - there may be issues using both at the same time unless
the TV Card is an ATI one and you are using MulTView (a function within ATIs
MMC software). There's a newer BIOS version for the S2460 - 1.05, It would
be worth updating to it (if necessary with the 9000 Pro installed).

Paul
Mobo: Tyan S2460
BIOS: 1.05 (set so VGA does use an IRQ - essential)
ATI AIW 8500DV (with firewire enabled)
PSU: Tagan 480 Watt
PCI cards in 3 of the slots (sound, NIC, 3Ware RAID controller card)
Dual 1600+ MP Palominos (266MHz FSB)
4 x Samsung 120GB HDDs in RAID 10 configuration
NEC ND-2510 DVD Burner
Iomega ATAPI 250 MB Zip Drive
1GB (2 x 512) DDR266 (ECC registered)

 

[R. J. Salvi]

Not only should you try that but the S2460 BIOS must be set to allow the
VGA card to have its own IRQ. Both the S2460 and the AIW 9700 Pro are very
power hungry on the +5 Volt rail (even though a floppy type connector is
used on the 9700 Pro which also supplies 12 volts). I note that you list a
TV Card as well as the AIW - there may be issues using both at the same
time unless the TV Card is an ATI one and you are using MulTView (a
function within ATIs MMC software). There's a newer BIOS version for the
S2460 - 1.05, It would be worth updating to it (if necessary with the 9000
Pro installed).

Paul
Mobo: Tyan S2460
BIOS: 1.05 (set so VGA does use an IRQ - essential)
ATI AIW 8500DV (with firewire enabled)
PSU: Tagan 480 Watt
PCI cards in 3 of the slots (sound, NIC, 3Ware RAID controller card)
Dual 1600+ MP Palominos (266MHz FSB)
4 x Samsung 120GB HDDs in RAID 10 configuration
NEC ND-2510 DVD Burner
Iomega ATAPI 250 MB Zip Drive
1GB (2 x 512) DDR266 (ECC registered)

Interesting regarding IRQ assignments for VGA. I originally installed a
Radeon 9000 (and a TV card which will be uninstalled with the AIW) with no
IRQ for VGA and it worked fine. My reasoning behind diabling the VGA IRQ
assignment was that I didn't want an IRQ conflict between VGA one of the 5
filled PCI slots. I'll try it again with IRQ enabled for VGA.

On another note, it may very well be a power issue since I cannot even POST.
I'll try it again with nothing else connected between the PSU and 12V aux.
connection on the AIW.

Re: BIOS ver 1.05...I'm waiting for Tyan to send me a new chip. The one I
have in now is unsupported according to the phlash16 flash utility so Tyan's
sending me a new one.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Paul Murphy]

Interesting regarding IRQ assignments for VGA. I originally installed a
Radeon 9000 (and a TV card which will be uninstalled with the AIW) with no
IRQ for VGA and it worked fine. My reasoning behind diabling the VGA IRQ
assignment was that I didn't want an IRQ conflict between VGA one of the 5
filled PCI slots. I'll try it again with IRQ enabled for VGA.

On another note, it may very well be a power issue since I cannot even
POST. I'll try it again with nothing else connected between the PSU and
12V aux. connection on the AIW.

Re: BIOS ver 1.05...I'm waiting for Tyan to send me a new chip. The one I
have in now is unsupported according to the phlash16 flash utility so
Tyan's sending me a new one.

Thanks for the info.

--
Robert J. Salvi, Ambiance Acoustics
http://www.ambianceacoustics.com
San Diego, CA USA
(858) 485-7514

Well it was a matter of luck if it worked with no errors while the BIOS
wasn't assigning an IRQ to the VGA card - perhaps there's something unique
about the Radeon 9000. I've read of AIW users having absolutely no luck
getting cards to work until an IRQ is assigned to VGA in the BIOS and ATIs
instructions state an IRQ should be assigned. Since you won't be using the
TV Card with the AIW, you can leave the PCI slot free that has an IRQ shared
with the AGP slot - cant remember which one it is but it's all explained in
the motherboard manual.

It may well be a power issue (either a dying PSU or possibly ATX connector
meltdown as per here: http://students.washington.edu/vladis/atx_burn/ ) I've
had ATX connector meltdown occur on 2 separate S2460 boards (my original
board and its warranty replacement, I'm on the third board now and so far so
good - but that problem is very common with certain PSUs and the S2460). It
would be well worth checking the board for any signs of ATX connector
burning/discolouration at regular intervals.

The best bet if there's no sign of discolouration would be to run the
machine with just the 9700 Pro installed and all the PCI cards removed (so
the machine is as lightly loaded as possible and so you have the best chance
of posting) and then measure the different voltages on the motherboard. The
simplest way to get approximate readings of these is using Tyan's monitor
software downloadable from their website.

Paul

 

[R. J. Salvi]

Well it was a matter of luck if it worked with no errors while the BIOS
wasn't assigning an IRQ to the VGA card - perhaps there's something unique
about the Radeon 9000. I've read of AIW users having absolutely no luck
getting cards to work until an IRQ is assigned to VGA in the BIOS and ATIs
instructions state an IRQ should be assigned. Since you won't be using the
TV Card with the AIW, you can leave the PCI slot free that has an IRQ
shared with the AGP slot - cant remember which one it is but it's all
explained in the motherboard manual.

It sounds like I got lucky. ;-)

It may well be a power issue (either a dying PSU or possibly ATX connector
meltdown as per here: http://students.washington.edu/vladis/atx_burn/ )
I've had ATX connector meltdown occur on 2 separate S2460 boards (my
original board and its warranty replacement, I'm on the third board now
and so far so good - but that problem is very common with certain PSUs and
the S2460). It would be well worth checking the board for any signs of ATX
connector burning/discolouration at regular intervals.

Brand new Antec True550 and no ATX connector discoloration. The board
revision is the latest and I've gone so far as to augment the 5V rail with
the "molex tweak"

http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28746

The best bet if there's no sign of discolouration would be to run the
machine with just the 9700 Pro installed and all the PCI cards removed (so
the machine is as lightly loaded as possible and so you have the best
chance of posting) and then measure the different voltages on the
motherboard. The simplest way to get approximate readings of these is
using Tyan's monitor software downloadable from their website.

Sound advice. With the 9000, the 5V rail was either 5.01 or 5.06V (can't
remember). That's good news...

 

[R. J. Salvi]

Not only should you try that but the S2460 BIOS must be set to allow the
VGA card to have its own IRQ. Both the S2460 and the AIW 9700 Pro are very
power hungry on the +5 Volt rail (even though a floppy type connector is
used on the 9700 Pro which also supplies 12 volts). I note that you list a
TV Card as well as the AIW - there may be issues using both at the same
time unless the TV Card is an ATI one and you are using MulTView (a
function within ATIs MMC software). There's a newer BIOS version for the
S2460 - 1.05, It would be worth updating to it (if necessary with the 9000
Pro installed).

Using *only* RAM, CPUs, AIW 9700 Pro, switching BIOS to use IRQ for VGA and
using a 12V power connector with nothing else on the line...no POST, vid or
beeps. It tries to boot for a split second, then dies. If I disconnect the
12V connector from the AIW, everything powers up and I get the on-screen ATI
error message that I need to connect a 12V power source to the card.

Any thoughts?

P.S., BIOS changes were made with a different video card installed

 

[Paul Murphy]

Using *only* RAM, CPUs, AIW 9700 Pro, switching BIOS to use IRQ for VGA
and using a 12V power connector with nothing else on the line...no POST,
vid or beeps. It tries to boot for a split second, then dies. If I
disconnect the 12V connector from the AIW, everything powers up and I get
the on-screen ATI error message that I need to connect a 12V power source
to the card.

Any thoughts?

YES! my thoughts are that having that 12 Volt (and 5 Volt) Molex connector
plugged into the AIW 9700, in combination with the motherboard's load is
taxing the PSU so much that it can't supply the correct rail voltages to the
motherboard to satisfy its requirements for booting. The next step should
therefore be trying a different PSU - tell the supplier of the Antec that
its not working with your setup and see what else they can provide that will
work with it. The S2460 is VERY picky about PSUs and memory, even though
these components may be within specification on paper, certain brands just
sometimes have problems with these boards. I have no doubt that there are
plenty of people successfully running Antec 550 Watt PSUs with the S2460 but
perhaps with your *exact* combination of hardware there's a compatibility
issue. My Tagan 480 Watt unit has been going fine now for about 6 months
since it became the replaement for my old Enhance 460 Watt unit (which
surprised me with ATX connector meltdown). I'd also carefully check that
your molex mod on the motherboard has been correctly carried out with no
hint of bridging on the PCB tracks - perhaps even trying again without the
supplimental ATX connector ("Molex tweak") plugged in...

Paul

 

[R. J. Salvi]

YES! my thoughts are that having that 12 Volt (and 5 Volt) Molex connector
plugged into the AIW 9700, in combination with the motherboard's load is
taxing the PSU so much that it can't supply the correct rail voltages to
the motherboard to satisfy its requirements for booting. The next step
should therefore be trying a different PSU - tell the supplier of the
Antec that its not working with your setup and see what else they can
provide that will work with it. The S2460 is VERY picky about PSUs and
memory, even though these components may be within specification on paper,
certain brands just sometimes have problems with these boards. I have no
doubt that there are plenty of people successfully running Antec 550 Watt
PSUs with the S2460 but perhaps with your *exact* combination of hardware
there's a compatibility issue. My Tagan 480 Watt unit has been going fine
now for about 6 months since it became the replaement for my old Enhance
460 Watt unit (which surprised me with ATX connector meltdown). I'd also
carefully check that your molex mod on the motherboard has been correctly
carried out with no hint of bridging on the PCB tracks - perhaps even
trying again without the supplimental ATX connector ("Molex tweak")
plugged in...

Same results with or without supplemental "Molex tweak" connected. I've also
tried a couple of other lesser power supplies (35A on the 5V rail) with the
same results. If the Antec 550 can't power this beast up when it's stripped,
I think I'm inclined just to let it go and use a lesser video card. It
worked like a champ with the Radeon 9000...so back in it goes. Thx.