Advice on DOS / WinXP co-existence

[Rene]

Hello,

My mom has an old DOS PC on which she is running a legacy DBase application.
We don't want nor can we change/upgrade/disturb this setup.

But I want to provide her with access to Internet/email/browsing
capabilities - all on ONE platform.

I'm looking for advice/comments on the following plan of mine.

Get her a modern PC and install for dual boot: DOS, WinXP; I've read on
microsoft that WinXP must be installed last - that's fine by me.

Questions:
Can I take her old disk (from the old Dos PC), and swap it into the new
system? (I will configure this as C: drive just to make sure!)
I plan to install WinXP on a separate drive (D:\). Is this Okay?
During the WinXP installation, is it straightforward to configure dual boot
(1) WinXP, (2) DOS ?
When I boot from the old DOS disk, will her legacy apps still work, without
reinstalling DBase for example?!

Any comments/pointers/hints are greatly appreciated!

René

 

[Al Dykes]

Hello,

My mom has an old DOS PC on which she is running a legacy DBase application.
We don't want nor can we change/upgrade/disturb this setup.

But I want to provide her with access to Internet/email/browsing
capabilities - all on ONE platform.

I'm looking for advice/comments on the following plan of mine.

Get her a modern PC and install for dual boot: DOS, WinXP; I've read on
microsoft that WinXP must be installed last - that's fine by me.

Questions:
Can I take her old disk (from the old Dos PC), and swap it into the new
system? (I will configure this as C: drive just to make sure!)
I plan to install WinXP on a separate drive (D:\). Is this Okay?
During the WinXP installation, is it straightforward to configure dual boot
(1) WinXP, (2) DOS ?
When I boot from the old DOS disk, will her legacy apps still work, without
reinstalling DBase for example?!

Any comments/pointers/hints are greatly appreciated!

René

You might be a candiate for Microsoft Virtual PC (or VMware)
to run your DOS apication on virtual hardware in a window.

If it's straght Dbase I don't see any reasons why you should
have any problems running virtual.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, René.

Your plan should work fine, so long as you keep a few basic facts in mind.

First, MS-DOS can't read, write, boot from or even SEE and NTFS partition,
so be sure to keep Drive C: formatted FAT (12, 16 or 32). You should be
able to simply move it into the new computer as primary master.

Second, no matter how many drives and partitions you have in the computer
and no matter where WinXP is installed, the boot process must start in the
"System Partition", which is the Active partition on the first HD -
typically Drive C:.

Third, WinXP can be installed into just about any volume (primary partition
or logical drive in an extended partition) on any HD in your computer. The
boot process will still start in C:, but C:\ntldr will use C:\boot.ini to
find WinXP on D: or X: or whichever volume you choose.

Fourth, note some counterintuitive terminology: As many writers have
pointed out, we boot from the system partition and keep the operating system
files in the boot volume. This is legacy terminology that MS inherited and
we're all stuck with it, at least for now. If you choose to install WinXP
in D:, then D: will be your "boot volume" and D:\Windows will be your "boot
folder".

Fifth, as you said, install the newest OS last. (Don't buy a computer with
WinXP pre-installed; install it from a retail CD-ROM. Either the Home or
Professional Edition should work unless you need some of the networking
functions left out of the Home Edition. An upgrade CD should work, so long
as you have a CD from a qualifying earlier Windows version to show when
Setup asks for it.) When WinXP Setup detects that MS-DOS is already
installed, it will automatically create the dual-boot configuration. It
will save the MS-DOS-style boot sector that is on Drive C: into a new file,
C:\bootsect.dos, then write the NT-style boot sector into the first physical
sector of C: and write WinXP's system files (ntldr, ntdetect.com and
boot.ini) into the Root of C: and the rest of WinXP into \Windows on
whichever volume you choose.

After installation of WinXP, each time she reboots, she should see a menu
from which she can choose to boot into MS-DOS or into WinXP (and she can set
it to default to either one). When she chooses MS-DOS, the bootsect.dos
file will be used to load C:\io.sys and C:\msdos.sys, just as if the
computer was booting from an MS-DOS boot sector and all her DOS programs
should run as before.

WinXP includes two MS-DOS emulators; the 16-bit version is Command.com and
the 32-bit version is Cmd.exe, also known as Command Prompt. Most MS-DOS
programs run just fine in one of these "DOS" windows. WinXP deals with
hardware through the HAL, so DOS programs that try to directly manipulate
hardware often have problems in WinXP. Perhaps that legacy dBase
application will run in a "DOS" window inside WinXP. Have you tried it?

As Al Dykes pointed out, there are other ways to handle the dual boot
situation. The only one I have experience with is the system that Microsoft
built into all the NT-style Windows versions, which works as I have
described.

RC

 

[Al Dykes]

Hi, René.

Your plan should work fine, so long as you keep a few basic facts in mind.

First, MS-DOS can't read, write, boot from or even SEE and NTFS partition,
so be sure to keep Drive C: formatted FAT (12, 16 or 32). You should be
able to simply move it into the new computer as primary master.

Second, no matter how many drives and partitions you have in the computer
and no matter where WinXP is installed, the boot process must start in the
"System Partition", which is the Active partition on the first HD -
typically Drive C:.

Third, WinXP can be installed into just about any volume (primary partition
or logical drive in an extended partition) on any HD in your computer. The
boot process will still start in C:, but C:\ntldr will use C:\boot.ini to
find WinXP on D: or X: or whichever volume you choose.

Fourth, note some counterintuitive terminology: As many writers have
pointed out, we boot from the system partition and keep the operating system
files in the boot volume. This is legacy terminology that MS inherited and
we're all stuck with it, at least for now. If you choose to install WinXP
in D:, then D: will be your "boot volume" and D:\Windows will be your "boot
folder".

Fifth, as you said, install the newest OS last. (Don't buy a computer with
WinXP pre-installed; install it from a retail CD-ROM. Either the Home or
Professional Edition should work unless you need some of the networking
functions left out of the Home Edition. An upgrade CD should work, so long
as you have a CD from a qualifying earlier Windows version to show when
Setup asks for it.) When WinXP Setup detects that MS-DOS is already
installed, it will automatically create the dual-boot configuration. It
will save the MS-DOS-style boot sector that is on Drive C: into a new file,
C:\bootsect.dos, then write the NT-style boot sector into the first physical
sector of C: and write WinXP's system files (ntldr, ntdetect.com and
boot.ini) into the Root of C: and the rest of WinXP into \Windows on
whichever volume you choose.

After installation of WinXP, each time she reboots, she should see a menu
from which she can choose to boot into MS-DOS or into WinXP (and she can set
it to default to either one). When she chooses MS-DOS, the bootsect.dos
file will be used to load C:\io.sys and C:\msdos.sys, just as if the
computer was booting from an MS-DOS boot sector and all her DOS programs
should run as before.

WinXP includes two MS-DOS emulators; the 16-bit version is Command.com and
the 32-bit version is Cmd.exe, also known as Command Prompt. Most MS-DOS
programs run just fine in one of these "DOS" windows. WinXP deals with
hardware through the HAL, so DOS programs that try to directly manipulate
hardware often have problems in WinXP. Perhaps that legacy dBase
application will run in a "DOS" window inside WinXP. Have you tried it?

As Al Dykes pointed out, there are other ways to handle the dual boot
situation. The only one I have experience with is the system that Microsoft
built into all the NT-style Windows versions, which works as I have
described.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP

Detail: Virtual PC/VMware isn't dial boot. Your DOS machine is
running as a process on XP, along wikt your native XP apps. When you
set it up you tell it to create a virtual FAT file system that lives
on your NTFS C drive. The Best of both worlds.

I'm sure you knew that, I'm pointing this up for people that
are not familiar with virtual machines..

 

[Robert Moir]

Can I take her old disk (from the old Dos PC), and swap it into the
new system? (I will configure this as C: drive just to make sure!)
I plan to install WinXP on a separate drive (D:\). Is this Okay?
During the WinXP installation, is it straightforward to configure
dual boot (1) WinXP, (2) DOS ?
When I boot from the old DOS disk, will her legacy apps still work,
without reinstalling DBase for example?!

Any comments/pointers/hints are greatly appreciated!

I'm assuming you've checked to make sure the old DOS app won't run in
Windows XP "natively"? That would be the easiest, simplest, cheapest
solution after all. Assuming you have checked and it won't work...

I'd strongly agree with Al - your scenario is almost a classic case for a
virtual machine such as Microsoft's Virtual PC or a competing product such
as VMWare.

An advantage of this approach would be that taking a backup of the old app
becomes simple - just back up the virtual PC stuff while DOS system isn't
running. Another would be that this would probably be considerably less
complex than dual booting. Still another advantage is that she could run the
DBase app in a windows of its own while she got on with something else in
Windows XP, if she wished. Also - if this whole PC is that old then how much
more life has the old hard disk got left in it before it fails?

The downside of course is the extra cost of a Virtual PC or VMWare licence.

If you still wish to dual boot then yes - the concerns R. C. mentions about
disk formats aside, this is pretty simple. And... yes, all the old DOS stuff
should "just work" when you've booted into the DOS mode.

--
--
Rob Moir, Microsoft MVP for servers & security
Website - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk
Virtual PC 2004 FAQ - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/VirtualPC2004FAQ.html

Kazaa - Software update services for your Viruses and Spyware.

 

[Rene]

Thanks for the many replies.

I've looked at Virtual PC, and well it looks very nice! Plus, I have uses
(other than my mom's immediate requirement) for it. So I am checking out
the trial version.

The Dos window within XP is an avenue I may have written off too quickly -
and, no, I hadn't checked that out. Thanks for pointing it out. DBase may
very well work there - I'll look more closely at that as well.

As for system partition / boot volume, your explanations cemented for me
concepts I was 'vaguely' aware of. Thank-you.

Bummer, now I have three scenarios to look at!

René

 

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:34:02 -0500, "Rene"

My mom has an old DOS PC on which she is running a legacy DBase application.
We don't want nor can we change/upgrade/disturb this setup.

OK.

Is it Y2k-compliant, and if not, does this matter to the application?

But I want to provide her with access to Internet/email/browsing
capabilities - all on ONE platform.

I'm looking for advice/comments on the following plan of mine.

Get her a modern PC and install for dual boot: DOS, WinXP; I've read on
microsoft that WinXP must be installed last - that's fine by me.

It's crucial that C: be FATxx, not NTFS, else DOS or DOS mode cannot
work. If C: is FATxx and you have to retro-fit DOS or DOS mode onto
an existing XP installation, then that is possible, but fiddly.

Can I take her old disk (from the old Dos PC), and swap it into the new
system? (I will configure this as C: drive just to make sure!)

I plan to install WinXP on a separate drive (D:\). Is this Okay?

It's one way of doing it, but not the approach I'd prefer.

During the WinXP installation, is it straightforward to configure dual boot
(1) WinXP, (2) DOS ?

When I boot from the old DOS disk, will her legacy apps still work, without
reinstalling DBase for example?!

Should be, if drive letters and paths don't change.

There are four possible outcomes here:

1) The DOS app works just fine within XP
2) The DOS app works fine in XP after compatability settings applied
3) The DOS app has to be run from DOS mode, and works that way
4) The DOS app doesn't work, even from DOS mode

Outcome (4) is possible if the DOS app has timing (speed) issues, or
memory capacity issues, that fall foul of modern hardware. So don't
botch the old PC just yet (one reason I'd keep old HD in the old PC)

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Never turn your back on an installer program