Adding a SATA hard drive

  • Thread starter Thread starter Philip Andrews
  • Start date Start date
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Philip Andrews

Hello,

Can anyone tell me where I'm going wrong, please? I'm trying to add a
300 GB SATA HDD to an XP Pro unit which already contains three IDE HDDs.
I've tried every way I can find to create and format any sort of partition
on this drive - and all methods have failed ('all' being DISKPART, Computer
Management in 'Control Panel ... Administrative Tools', Partition Magic 7
and Windows Explorer - where sometimes the drive appears, then it doesn't,
then it does again. All I get at the end of an attempt to format the drive
(by any method) is 'format unsuccessful' or words to that effect. SATA is
enabled in BIOS, and is set to IDE rather than RAID ... all I want to do is
to use the drive as a large scratchpad for video projects, formatted under
NTFS.

Any light that anyone can shed would be most welcome - I'm stuck, and
have been for a week.

Cheers,

Philip
 
Any light that anyone can shed would be most welcome - I'm stuck, and
have been for a week.
Click to expand...

Take a look at your motherboard manufacturers homepage, you might need a
Windows XP driver for your SATA subsystem to work.

I am not sure if that is the solution though, as you said your drive
appears sometimes.

At least my laptop needs a driver for the drives to work (SATA as well).
 
Philip said:
Can anyone tell me where I'm going wrong, please? I'm trying to
add a 300 GB SATA HDD to an XP Pro unit which already contains three
IDE HDDs. I've tried every way I can find to create and format any
sort of partition on this drive - and all methods have failed ('all'
being DISKPART, Computer Management in 'Control Panel ...
Administrative Tools', Partition Magic 7 and Windows Explorer - where
sometimes the drive appears, then it doesn't, then it does again. All
I get at the end of an attempt to format the drive (by any method) is
'format unsuccessful' or words to that effect. SATA is enabled in
BIOS, and is set to IDE rather than RAID ... all I want to do is to
use the drive as a large scratchpad for video projects, formatted
under NTFS.
Click to expand...


Have you installed the SATA drivers? You usually have to press F6 soon after
powering on (watch for the prompt) and load them from a diskette.
 
To add to the others.

If your WInXP have no SP2, or at least SP1 installed -- you can't use HDDs
larger than 137GB capacity total.

--
Mikhail Zhilin
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
http://www.aha.ru/~mwz
Sorry, no technical support by e-mail.
Please reply to the newsgroups only.
======
 
Hi Mikhail,

Mikhail Zhilin said:
To add to the others.

If your WInXP have no SP2, or at least SP1 installed -- you can't use HDDs
larger than 137GB capacity total.
Click to expand...

Sorry - should have mentioned - SP2 and all updates are in place. What
would be the drive-size limit in that case, please?

Philip
 
Hi Ken,

Have you installed the SATA drivers? You usually have to press F6 soon
after powering on (watch for the prompt) and load them from a diskette.
Click to expand...

I thought htat I had, but maybe not. Thanks - I'll try that right away.

Philip
 
Mikhail said:
To add to the others.

If your WInXP have no SP2, or at least SP1 installed -- you can't use
HDDs larger than 137GB capacity total.
Click to expand...


A clarification: you can use them, but you can't more than 137GB of them.
 
No real limitation I am aware of unless your BIOS imposes one. I know that
Maxtor is intending to market a 500GB size in 2006. By the way, how are you
connecting that SATA drive. Newer computers feature SATA drives and
connectors, older ones do not; however, PCI cards can add the SATA
capability and jacks to older computers.
Gene K
 
Hi Mikhail,



Sorry - should have mentioned - SP2 and all updates are in place. What
would be the drive-size limit in that case, please?
Click to expand...

As it is said already, there is no practical limit then.

--
Mikhail Zhilin
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
http://www.aha.ru/~mwz
Sorry, no technical support by e-mail.
Please reply to the newsgroups only.
======
 
A clarification: you can use them, but you can't more than 137GB of them.
Click to expand...

Ken, I can agree in general -- but there can be the problems even if not to
use more than 137GB: with, say, Disk Management. So it is better to take into
account the article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/Q303013 in this case.

Not once I saw also the questions about the problems with Setup when the drive
size was 160GB and WinXP CD had no SP1 integrated -- and even with SP1
integrated if the drive size was 250GB or more.

--
Mikhail Zhilin
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
http://www.aha.ru/~mwz
Sorry, no technical support by e-mail.
Please reply to the newsgroups only.
======
 
Hello Gene,

Gene K said:
No real limitation I am aware of unless your BIOS imposes one. I know that
Maxtor is intending to market a 500GB size in 2006. By the way, how are
you connecting that SATA drive. Newer computers feature SATA drives and
connectors, older ones do not; however, PCI cards can add the SATA
capability and jacks to older computers.
Click to expand...

The drive is connected via one of four SATA headers on the (755A-series,
brand-new Foxconn) motherboard - no problem there.

I took a fresh look at things after receiving advice from the Group, and
found that one of the two SCSI drivers wasn't installed correctly. I
remedied that defect, but I still get 'format unsuccessful' when I try to
create & format a partition of any size. The hardware drivers section in
Device Manager is 'SCSI and RAID Controllers' - the two drivers are 'Silicon
Image Sil SATARaid Controller' and 'SiS 180 RAID Controller'. The drive
itself lists as a Maxtor 9L300S0 SCSI Disk Device, and is sized at 300 GB
nominal. I'm obviously closer than I was yesterday, but equally as obviously
am still missing something - any other ideas please?

Cheers,

Philip
 
Hello again,

Thanks for that clarification and the help to date. I followed the
Q303013 link below, and verified that my copy of ATAPI.SYS was at least the
correct revision for drives sized at >137 GB. I found in passing that the
disk used to supply the drivers for my motherboard wasn't the correct one
for the mainboard - so that ALL of my m-b drivers - SATA Raid included - may
be wrong. I've downloaded replacements, after verifying my mainboard's type
number. When I get this problem sorted out, I'll post the solution for you
all to see.

One more question - I've taken it for granted that a SATA drive can be
formatted and used on its own, rather than as part of a RAID or JBOD set -
but is that actually correct? I can't see why not - but then, I'm a newbie
with SATA, so I could be wrong about that as well.

Regards,

Philip
 
Philip said:
Can anyone tell me where I'm going wrong, please? I'm trying to
add a 300 GB SATA HDD to an XP Pro unit which already contains three
IDE HDDs. I've tried every way I can find to create and format any
sort of partition on this drive - and all methods have failed ('all'
being DISKPART, Computer Management in 'Control Panel ...
Administrative Tools', Partition Magic 7 and Windows Explorer - where
sometimes the drive appears, then it doesn't, then it does again. All
I get at the end of an attempt to format the drive (by any method) is
'format unsuccessful' or words to that effect. SATA is enabled in
BIOS, and is set to IDE rather than RAID ... all I want to do is to
use the drive as a large scratchpad for video projects, formatted
under NTFS.
Click to expand...
The drive is connected via one of four SATA headers on the
(755A-series, brand-new Foxconn) motherboard - no problem there.

I took a fresh look at things after receiving advice from the Group,
and found that one of the two SCSI drivers wasn't installed correctly. I
remedied that defect, but I still get 'format unsuccessful' when I try to
create & format a partition of any size. The hardware drivers section in
Device Manager is 'SCSI and RAID Controllers' - the two drivers are
'Silicon Image Sil SATARaid Controller' and 'SiS 180 RAID Controller'. The
drive itself lists as a Maxtor 9L300S0 SCSI Disk Device, and is sized at
300 GB nominal. I'm obviously closer than I was yesterday, but equally as
obviously am still missing something - any other ideas please?

Cheers,

Philip
Click to expand...


Philip continues...
Hello again,

(PHILIP IS RESPONDING TO ANOTHER POSTER'S SUGGESTION THAT HE CONSULT THE MS
KB ARTICLE "How to enable 48-bit Logical Block Addressing support for ATAPI
disk drives in Windows XP")

Thanks for that clarification and the help to date. I followed the
Q303013 link below, and verified that my copy of ATAPI.SYS was at least the
correct revision for drives sized at >137 GB. I found in passing that the
disk used to supply the drivers for my motherboard wasn't the correct one
for the mainboard - so that ALL of my m-b drivers - SATA Raid included - may
be wrong. I've downloaded replacements, after verifying my mainboard's type
number. When I get this problem sorted out, I'll post the solution for you
all to see.

One more question - I've taken it for granted that a SATA drive can be
formatted and used on its own, rather than as part of a RAID or JBOD set -
but is that actually correct? I can't see why not - but then, I'm a newbie
with SATA, so I could be wrong about that as well.

Regards,
Philip


Philip:
First of all, the 137 GB large-capacity drive limitation isn't your problem,
so forget about that MS KB article. It's a virtual certainty your
motherboard supports large-capacity disks, i.e., > 137 GB and you're XP OS
contains SP1 and/or SP2. Those are the two basic conditions for the system
to recognize drives > 137 GB.

It most certainly sounds like a SATA driver issue; either the driver wasn't
initially installed properly or, somehow the wrong drivers were installed.
You say "that the disk used to supply the drivers for my motherboard wasn't
the correct one for the mainboard...". That is most peculiar. Are you saying
the Foxconn installation CD that came with your motherboard was the wrong
one, at least with respect to the SATA drivers? How did you learn this?

Re your final question. Yes, you're correct that a SATA HD can be used in a
non-RAID environment.

Frankly, this situation re the installation of SATA hard drives is a plague
brought about by the industry itself. Why a straightforward standardized
method of installing a SATA HD in a non-RAID environment, (similar to the
one inherent in installing PATA-IDE drives), wasn't developed by the
industry is both a mystery and a curse. All one has to do is peruse
newsgroups like this one to see the plaintive calls for help from users who
are experiencing difficulty in this area. There should not be this level of
difficulty and confusion. But we don't seem to have any other choice but to
live with it, at least for the moment.

Philip, you've got to read your motherboard's manual and hopefully find
clear & detailed instructions in that manual re the installation of SATA
hard drives. Unfortunately the process, let alone clear instructions, seems
to differ from motherboard to motherboard as noted above.

Anyway, good luck and please keep us informed of your progress and how you
resolved the problem.
Anna
 
Hello Anna,

Philip:
First of all, the 137 GB large-capacity drive limitation isn't your
problem, so forget about that MS KB article. It's a virtual certainty your
motherboard supports large-capacity disks, i.e., > 137 GB and you're XP OS
contains SP1 and/or SP2. Those are the two basic conditions for the system
to recognize drives > 137 GB.
Click to expand...

It looks as though everything's OK in that direction anyway, thanks - my
ATAPI.SYS file is revision
It most certainly sounds like a SATA driver issue; either the driver
wasn't initially installed properly or, somehow the wrong drivers were
installed. You say "that the disk used to supply the drivers for my
motherboard wasn't the correct one for the mainboard...". That is most
peculiar. Are you saying the Foxconn installation CD that came with your
motherboard was the wrong one, at least with respect to the SATA drivers?
How did you learn this?
Click to expand...

By inserting the CD in the CD-ROM drive - I get the message 'This
Utility CD can't support your mainboard'. I got around behind the problem by
using Explorer to allow manual installation and crossing my fingers - but
it's becoming clear that I should have asked for a workable disk at purchase
time (sheer impatience to get going after a 6-week holdup, with the board
sitting on the shelf leering at me - not an excuse, not even much of a
reason).

Re your final question. Yes, you're correct that a SATA HD can be used in
a non-RAID environment.
Click to expand...

Thanks - I was beginning to think that I might have to shell out more
cash on a second 300 GB drive, to go with the existing unit.

Frankly, this situation re the installation of SATA hard drives is a
plague brought about by the industry itself. Why a straightforward
standardized method of installing a SATA HD in a non-RAID environment,
(similar to the one inherent in installing PATA-IDE drives), wasn't
developed by the industry is both a mystery and a curse. All one has to do
is peruse newsgroups like this one to see the plaintive calls for help
from users who are experiencing difficulty in this area. There should not
be this level of difficulty and confusion. But we don't seem to have any
other choice but to live with it, at least for the moment.
Click to expand...

It's still a growing industry, with everyone vying for pole position -
so such confusion is understandable. It's still a pain, though :o)

Philip, you've got to read your motherboard's manual and hopefully find
clear & detailed instructions in that manual re the installation of SATA
hard drives. Unfortunately the process, let alone clear instructions,
seems to differ from motherboard to motherboard as noted above.
Click to expand...

That's the main problem here - the manual is good, but it stops short of
a 'recipe' for installing the SATA drive and its drivers, and then
configuring the disk for use. I CAN get various utilities to begin
formatting the drive - but each time I try it the formatting process appears
to reach 100% (indicated), only to return a message which amounts to 'format
was unsuccessful'. It's pretty irritating - like seeing a part on a stores
shelf and being able to point to it, but having to quote a part-number to
the storeman before you can take delivery!
Anyway, good luck and please keep us informed of your progress and how you
resolved the problem.
Anna
Click to expand...

Thanks - I'll get there in the end, and then I'll post a recipe for how
I did it - as payback for help received.

Cheers,

Philip
 
Philip:
Glad to have your additional comments. Just one further comment on my
part...

You're much too charitable when you say "It's still a growing industry, with
everyone vying for pole position - so such confusion is understandable. It's
still a pain, though :o)". In my view, all this confusion re the
installation of SATA hard drives is *not* understandable, certainly not at
this late date. SATA drives have been on the market for better than three
years now, and there was a considerable run-up in time leading to the
development & specifications involving these devices. As I stated, I find it
incomprehensible that the industry as a whole could not (apparently) agree
upon a standardized, straightforward & relatively simple installation
routine involving these devices.

But do let us know how you make out.
Anna
 
Hello again,

Thanks for that clarification and the help to date. I followed the
Q303013 link below <...> I found in passing that the
disk used to supply the drivers for my motherboard wasn't the correct one
for the mainboard <...> When I get this problem sorted out, I'll post the solution for you
all to see.
Click to expand...

Yes, it will be useful to know the result.
One more question - I've taken it for granted that a SATA drive can be
formatted and used on its own, rather than as part of a RAID or JBOD set -
but is that actually correct? I can't see why not - but then, I'm a newbie
with SATA, so I could be wrong about that as well.
Click to expand...

No problem at all to use the separate SATA drive(s) -- and I use them as the
separate HDDs for about 3 years.

And when it is possible (i.e. in the most cases), don't partition or/and
format the drives (both PATA and SATA) using the third party programs -- but,
to minimize the possible problems in future, use the native WinXP tools
instead.

So, when you install WinXP from the genuine bootable CD (and install, if
necessary, the HDD drivers from the diskette by F6 this time) -- you can use
the absolutely non-partitioned HDD, and create and format the partition(s)
while installation (and even delete the existent partition(s) if need, and
create them by new with the size you wish). If you install the additional new
HDD (both PATA and SATA) to the working system -- you can (re)partition and
format it via Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Computer Management ->
Disks Management.

--
Mikhail Zhilin
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
http://www.aha.ru/~mwz
Sorry, no technical support by e-mail.
Please reply to the newsgroups only.
======
<...>
 
Hello Mikhail,

Mikhail Zhilin said:
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 16:03:05 -0000, "Philip Andrews"
Click to expand...
No problem at all to use the separate SATA drive(s) -- and I use them as
the
separate HDDs for about 3 years.
Click to expand...

OK - thanks.
And when it is possible (i.e. in the most cases), don't partition or/and
format the drives (both PATA and SATA) using the third party programs --
but,
to minimize the possible problems in future, use the native WinXP tools
instead.
Click to expand...

I've been doing that - I realise from past experience that PM Pro 7 is
OK for use on disks that have already been partitioned, but can produce some
bad results if used on blank disks (I never got to the bottom of that
problem either, so I avoid it and use Windows tools instead for the initial
processing of a new drive).

So, when you install WinXP from the genuine bootable CD (and install, if
necessary, the HDD drivers from the diskette by F6 this time) -- you can
use
the absolutely non-partitioned HDD, and create and format the partition(s)
while installation (and even delete the existent partition(s) if need, and
create them by new with the size you wish).
Click to expand...
If you install the additional new
HDD (both PATA and SATA) to the working system -- you can (re)partition
and
format it via Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Computer
Management ->
Disks Management.
Click to expand...

That's what I was hoping (and trying) to do - but each time I try (using
either 'format' by right-clicking the drive icon in My Computer, or using
'Disks Management' in 'Computer Management' , all I get at the very end of
the process is 'Windows was unable to complete the format'. The progress bar
reaches 100%, there's a long pause, and then this message appears. No matter
what I use or try, that's the result. Is it possible that thr drive is
damaged in some way, do you think? I have no means of testing it, of course.

I have DISKPART and its command list/syntax, and have used it as I would use
FDISK - all to no avail, because I'm not sure of the sequence there either.
(I've created a Primary partition, made it active, and then tried to format
it. Is that sequence correct?)

Regards,

Philip
 
Philip,

Don't you try to format the drive in FAT32 by chance?

Maximum FAT32 drive you can _format_ (not use) in Win2000/XP is 32GB, maximum
size of FAT32 logical drive you can use -- in Win2000 and WinXP as well (if it
is created in, say, Win98) -- is 127GB.

See: "Limitations of FAT32 File System"
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q184006
and several similar articles of MS KB.

--
Mikhail Zhilin
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
http://www.aha.ru/~mwz
Sorry, no technical support by e-mail.
Please reply to the newsgroups only.
======
 
Mikhail said:
Maximum FAT32 drive you can _format_ (not use) in Win2000/XP is
32GB, maximum size of FAT32 logical drive you can use -- in Win2000
and WinXP as well (if it is created in, say, Win98) -- is 127GB.

See: "Limitations of FAT32 File System"
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/184006
and several similar articles of MS KB.
Click to expand...

Actually - I believe the largest USEABLE FAT32 volume (that XP can use and
in theory - you can make FAT32 anyway) is about 8 terabytes.
True enough - you have to format it with another application.. But that is
not difficult:

http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?fat32format.htm
or
http://www.mager.org/mkdosfs/
 
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