Access is not a development app. (anymore)

[Guest]

Not that that is necessarily bad: many people make a living out of fixing
other peoples database systems, and if lots of new users start writing lots
of new database systems, there will be more work fixing them.

And Access is clearly being positioned in the same space as Excel and Word.
On the one hand, development features are dropped (adp) or moved to other
products (SQL Server table design).
On the other hand, all other products move up to take up the slack
(Sharepoint server, Excel server).

But I want to puke every time I read that Microsoft 'dogfoods' products, and
is 'dog-fooding' MS Office. When was the last time you saw a Microsoft
application written in Access? Remember when the Access Wizards and
Utilities were written in Access? Don't make me laugh guys: the day you
dog-food Access is the day you give up on the "programming as crossword
puzzle solving" development paradigm

(david)

 

[Brendan Reynolds]

ADPs are not being dropped, David.

 

[Guest]

"ADP's will continue to be supported, just not the designers."
(Mary Chipman)

So you can continue to use your ADP's. You just can't
design any new ones.

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

'dog-fooding'

I can't figure it out from context.

Would somebody elaborate?

 

[Brendan Reynolds]

<quote>
ADP's will continue to be supported, just not the designers. That
could, of course change between now and Access 12.
</quote>

http://groups.google.ie/group/microsoft.public.access.adp.sqlserver/msg/13f77520583aecfd

 

[Brendan Reynolds]

It means they use the new versions internally before they are released to
the public. It's from something Steve Ballmer said about how dog-food
manufacturers should eat their own dog-food. (Yuck!)

 

[david epsom dot com dot au]

So what you are saying is, you are part of the beta test
group, and, you are releasing this information?

I, of course, can only go on the publicly available
information.

(david)

 

[Guest]

It means they use their own products.

MS also use their own products before public release,
as in 'we have been dog-fooding the next release for
the last 3 months', but there is no time-scale inherent
in the term itself.

In both the USA and Australia, dog food usually meets
human consumption standards. Traditionally in the USA,
very poor people ate dog food when they couldn't afford
anything else. In Australia, it's just that most people wouldn't
feed their dog anything that they didn't think was safe to
consume. And fish for cats is sometimes exactly the same
fish from exactly the same factory also canning fish for
human consumption - just the cut's that don't look as nice
in the can go to the cats.

Certainly the pet food people I have spoken with wouldn't
feel particularly bad about eating the pet food they produce
-- which is more than I can say about some of the fruit
canners I have spoken to.

(david)

 

[Douglas J. Steele]

All Brendan did was indicate that Mary said more than just what you quoted
(and gave a link to her comments)

 

[Brendan Reynolds]

I didn't say that, David. I said 'ADPs are not being dropped' and I quoted
from the same post by Mary Chipman that you previously quoted. I also
provided a link to the original post in the Google archives for reference.
If you read the post in context, I think it is clear that Mary was talking
primarily about the situation with regard to Access 2003 ADPs and SQL Server
2005. Mary specifically said - as my quote shows - that the situation might
change before the release of Access 12.

Everything that I have said in this thread is publicly available
information. Mary's post is, obviously, public information, and the fact
that ADPs will be supported in Access 2007 has been mentioned by Gary
Robinson in his 'Access Unlimited' newsletter
(http://www.vb123.com/toolshed/news/issue67.htm).

On the subject of ADPs, all I can say is that they are not being dropped,
and that we should wait for an official announcement before drawing any
conclusions as to exactly what the future of ADPs might be. We should not
base conclusions on what Mary Chipman said in that newsgroup post, because
Mary herself said at the time that the situation was subject to change
before the release of Office 12.

On the wider question of whether Access has a future as a development tool,
I share some of your concerns, but again I think it is too soon to draw any
final conclusion. I think we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Guest]

You can't develop ADP's with the current version of Access
and SQL Server.

I know this. You know this. Other people know this.

Brendon thinks that the refusal of others to make predictions
about the future is relevant.

I disagree. I think the present is relevant. If all anyone can think
of in reply is speculation about future versions, I think my point
is made.

http://groups.google.com.au/group/m...lserver/browse_thread/thread/56d703cc13d0f7ce

I'm happy to quote others about the present. About the
future, I'm willing to leave it in God's hands.

(david)

 

[Brendan Reynolds]

David,

Please stop misrepresenting me. Twice now in this thread you have done this.
I did not say anything about the Beta, and I did not say anything about any
refusal by anyone to do anything.

I appreciate that this may be an issue on which you may have strong
feelings, and you certainly have every right to disagree with my views. But
I do not believe that is any excuse for misrepresentation.

 

[david epsom dot com dot au]

So far, everything has been in public: I've always been
willing to let people make judgements about me.

But now I'm asking you to pull your head in. If you can't
handle it without making personal attacks, don't read it.

(david)

 

[Brendan Reynolds]

The only person making personal attacks in this discussion is you. But about
one thing you are certainly correct. I do not need to read them. Plonk.