Access 2003 Forms Wizard is Rubbish

D

Dee

Just been testing the latest version of Access and it's Wizards appear to
have made zero improvement over the last version.

The wizards create forms that are still ugly, use hard to read fonts, horrid
colours and squash the data into a fraction of the available desktop
space...

... Is this correct? I can't believe a product which costs so much money can
be so bad. Is there some hidden settings which makes forms appear niec to
look at and nicely spaced out?

I don't mind a bit of manual tweaking and moving around of the objects but
surely Microsoft could have made major improvments in the forms and even the
reports section.

Is there any addon's that will do a decent job of form creation?
 
G

Guest

MS is famous for spending all their time adding exotic new features that most
of us never use and NOT improving something like the Forms Wizard that
everyone uses.

Another example is the SQL Editor for queries. Other than showing you the
text, it has NO FUNCTIONALITY at all. How about a Find and Replace function?
As it is now, I have to copy the SQL from the query window, paste it into
word, do the replace, then paste it back to the query window. What a f***ing
waste of time when it would so easy to add a find and replace fucntion to the
query window.

I am committed to using Access as I've been doing so for many years and have
written my database in it; however, in many ways that could be easily solved
it truly is a very poor product.

Bill Mitchell

P.S., It does amaze me that "new" versions of Access really change so little
considering they have 8 million programmers working night and day on this
stuff.
 
D

Douglas J. Steele

Bill Mitchell said:
MS is famous for spending all their time adding exotic new features that most
of us never use and NOT improving something like the Forms Wizard that
everyone uses.
 
D

Douglas J. Steele

Bill Mitchell said:
MS is famous for spending all their time adding exotic new features that most
of us never use and NOT improving something like the Forms Wizard that
everyone uses.

In all of the years I've worked with Access, I've never once used the Forms
Wizard.
 
G

Guest

The Forms Wizard is just symptomatic of a larger problem with Access.
Actually, I believe that MS makes Access more difficult to program than it
needs to be on purpose. By having so many glaring holes and missing simple
fixes, the less-than-expert programmer is forced to (god help us all) use
MS's unbelieveably overpriced technical support to solve some of these
questions.

Most experienced users know to come here for answers but God help the newbie
that goes to MS.

Here is an example. On continuous forms, it makes sense the user would want
to current record to appear as a different color than all other records.
This can be done using code of course; however, my point is, something as
easy and obvious as this should be "hard-wired" into Access, yet after so
many upgrades, it still is not (and never will be). This creates a need for
"technical support" to solve these problems which don't need to be problems
at all.

Many people are very angry at MS for their antics, hence the populatity of
other systems such as Linux. In my opinion, it is stuff like this that
really hurt MS and us in the long run.

Hey, for what it is, Access is a good product and is easy to program in. My
point is that it could be SO much better and it wouldn't even be hard to do
it. MS just doesn't and they don't, IMHO, on purpose.
 
A

Arvin Meyer

While I agree with *some* of your observations, I respectfully disagree with
your conclusions.

Bill Mitchell said:
The Forms Wizard is just symptomatic of a larger problem with Access.
Actually, I believe that MS makes Access more difficult to program than it
needs to be on purpose. By having so many glaring holes and missing simple
fixes, the less-than-expert programmer is forced to (god help us all) use
MS's unbelieveably overpriced technical support to solve some of these
questions.

Even though it is expensive, technical support is not over-priced when you
consider that it is almost never even a break-even endeavor.
Most experienced users know to come here for answers but God help the newbie
that goes to MS.

MS makes it easier to find the newsgroups than to find a tech-support phone
number on their website, albeit they do point users to the web interface
rather than a newsreader.
Here is an example. On continuous forms, it makes sense the user would want
to current record to appear as a different color than all other records.
This can be done using code of course; however, my point is, something as
easy and obvious as this should be "hard-wired" into Access, yet after so
many upgrades, it still is not (and never will be). This creates a need for
"technical support" to solve these problems which don't need to be problems
at all.

Starting with Access 2000, you can highlight the current field in a
continuous form by simply choosing Conditional Formatting in the form's
DesignView. Then select Field Has Focus from the conditions combo, and pick
the formatting you want.
Many people are very angry at MS for their antics, hence the populatity of
other systems such as Linux. In my opinion, it is stuff like this that
really hurt MS and us in the long run.

Not as popular as one might think for free systems. Windows has a greater
than 90% market share. Microsoft Office's market share is even bigger, as is
that of Access.
Hey, for what it is, Access is a good product and is easy to program in. My
point is that it could be SO much better

Here we agree.
and it wouldn't even be hard to do
it. MS just doesn't and they don't, IMHO, on purpose.

I think that's debateable. If you mean that they may leave certain feature
out on purpose, I'll have to agree, but then so does every manufacturer of
every product. If you think it's malicious, I'll have to disagree. I've met
many of the folks at Microsoft who work on Access. Everyone I've met loves
the product as much as we do, and does a fantastic job. Could they do
better? Yes, and they're working on it.
--
Arvin Meyer, MCP, MVP
Microsoft Access
Free Access downloads:
http://www.datastrat.com
http://www.mvps.org/access
 
M

Mike Painter

Arvin Meyer wrote:
Snip>
Here we agree.
I use a template for simple pop-ups that get minimum information, usually
in a "not-in-list" situation.

Certainly MSFT could add fancy looking templates but what it does have is
good for the simple stuff and almost as pretty as what you can do in
Filemaker.
Many Access tools for making things pretty are better than you will find in
FM at least through 5.5

However once past this simple requirement I doubt that I would take the time
to pick through several hundred templates to find the one that is almost
right but will need work anyway.

I can't think of any real imporovements in Access that I'd like to see that
are not on the programming side. Make MSFT Basic as powerful as Pick Basic
in string handling would be one.
Expose the previous record and the original content of the current record
would be a couple more. We know they are there because we can hit CTRL-; and
escape.
 
B

Bruce

Just to chip in my bit to the discussion, as a relatively
new Access user I will say that I am often frustrated by
the omissions, and annoyed by the built-in assumptions
about what I want to do. Wizards and autoform can be
usefule for getting a lot of controls onto a page quickly
for testing, but I have very different ideas than MS about
how I want things to look, and about the needs of the
users.
Among the omissions that frustrate me the most is the
difficulty of working with different screen resolutions.
Another is enigmatic or useless error messages ("You can't
go to the specified record" comes to mind) that are
cumbersome to change into something useful. And
throughout Office, HTML Help leaves much to be desired.
Across the board, the ability of MS products or the MS web
sites to find anything is well below average for the
industry. The ability to search within results, or to
search reliably be multiple criteria, would go a long way
toward making MS products more usable. The information is
often available, but can only be found by using an exact
search term or phrase.
There is much good in Access and other MS products.
Unfortunately, pretty pictures and arbitrary automation
tend too often to hide the best features under simplistic
veneers. Learning how to sidestep the automation is too
often the first order of business for somebody who is
serious about making the most of the products'
functionality.
 
R

Rudi Groenewald

Quote:
Another is enigmatic or useless error messages ("You can't
go to the specified record" comes to mind)

Don't worry buddy, I have nightmares about that line...

Well.. in my opinion... Access is a great application, MS focusses on
functionality, don't we all... but, in my point of view... I like working
with an application that looks nice, that's why I like working with Access
2003, just the small change of a different colout to the toolbars made it
look nice, and I would never want to go back to the old grey. So I want my
applications for my users to look nice aswell.. My company is working on
this dreaded one colour application that Everyone hates, and hopefully when
I'm done, this will be replaced now.

MS could improve a bit on designing of apps... really, Yes I know, what's
does a good looking application worth if it doesn't work, but what is a
working application worth, if no one is using it....?


Regards
Rudi Groenewald
 
A

Albert D. Kallal

I can't think of any real imporovements in Access that I'd like to see that
are not on the programming side. Make MSFT Basic as powerful as Pick Basic
in string handling would be one.

I written a lot of code in Pick. And, I will say that I miss a LOT of the
string handling.

However, I think much of pick's strength is that you work with "one" record
in code that represents a complex structure.

As more time goes by, then I do find some equivalents in string handling
that vb has. For example:

strText = "one two three"

In pick, to grab the middle word "two", we can go:

print field(strText," ",2)

I really like the above. However, in VB, (which ms-access uses), you can go:

debug.Print split(strTxt," ")(1)

So, as time progresses, I do find the string handling in VB up to the task.


And, pick basic does miss a few things in terms of string handling

.. For example, how do you grab the last two characters of a string?

print strText[len(strText) - 2,2]

That is a bit worse then:

msgbox right(strText,2)

(pick basic is missing the right$() command!)

Further, pick basic don't allow left side expressions. So, to replace the
first 3 characters with "four", you can go:

mid(strText,1,3) = "four"

In pick basic, you have to go:

strText = "four" : strText[3,999]

And, the above has been simplified, as I used 999, and to be "correct", I
*really* should put a len() function in there.

Or, how about grabbing all charters from the 4th to the end of the string

msgbox mid(strText,4)

In pick basic, you have to go:

print strtext[4,9999]

(again, I just used a arbitrary length for the string..and should not have
to do that)

About the only real function I miss now is dcount, and I wrote my own
function that does the same in VB.
Expose the previous record

Hum, that is going to depend on how you navigate. (but, point accepted)
and the original content of the current record
would be a couple more.

There is the "oldValue" property of a control that does this.

I think that pick is so strong in strings because all records are a
string..but that somewhat clouds the issue that pick basic is really good
with stings. For example, often you need to "pass" a variable number of
values to a subroutine. In Pick, we *often* use a dynamic string.

So, we get:

Pick basic:

strParms = ""
strParms<-1> = "one"
strParms<-2> = "two"
strParms<-3> = "three"

Call MyCoolSub(strParms)

SUBROUTINE MyCoolSub(MyParms)

nump = dcount(strparms,AM)

for i = 1 to nump
print MyParms<i>
next i

The above is great in pick, since we don't have to know how many "values" we
are going to pass.

In VB, you either use a dyanamic array, or better is a colletion


dim colParms as new Colleciton

colParms.Add "one"
colParms.Add "two"
colParms.Add "Three"

Call MyCoolSub(colParms)

Public Sub MyCoolSub(MyParms As Collection)

inum = MyParms.Count

For i = 1 To inum
Debug.Print MyParms(i)
Next i

End Sub

So, over time, I have found a lot of "substitutes" for strings and dynamic
structure that we come to love so much in the pick language.

And really, if you build up a few functions (like dcount), you find that you
miss very little in VB when compared to Pick.

However, what you will always miss is the simplicity, and the fact that a
complex record in pick is a simple string!
 
A

Albert D. Kallal

I like working
with an application that looks nice, that's why I like working with Access
2003, just the small change of a different colout to the toolbars made it
look nice

Have you tried the themed controls feature of a2003?

Here is some screen shots (I only turned on themed controls..and did NOTHING
else to the screens).

You can see the results (before and after). Themes certainly do make the
application look a lot more "fresh" and modern.

Here is the screen shots:
http://www.attcanada.net/~kallal.msn/Atheme/index.htm
 

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