9950F and 4990, a toss-up?

[Don]

Yes. We all have. Multiple times. You have chastised those of us who have
tried to be helpful for being incorrect in our usage of "batch scanning" for
multiple film frames. We are just using the standard industry terminology.

Actually that's *not* industry terminology. At best it's misuse or
misunderstanding of existing computer terminology. On top of that, in
this context, most just misunderstood what the question was.

Batch processing simply means processing a defined set *one item at a
time* in a *serial* fashion!

As in scanning a strip of film where you process *one frame at a
time*. You scan one frame, then the next and then the next, etc.

Or scanning a bunch of mounted slides in a feeder where you process
*one slide at a time*. You scan one slide then the next, etc.

The question was referring to scanning *all* images *simultaneously*
and then automatically separating individual components afterwards.

So if you want to bring in "industry terminology" that's certainly
*not* batch processing in the conventional sense.

My flatbed actually does that automatically. It tries to identify all
items on the glass and then selects them individually. Actually, I
would like to turn it off because I always scan one thing at a time
and set the crop manually! ;o)

Don.

 

[Stefan Lachinger]

IMO, a waste. But it's what they all do. Until someone gets a brain
instead of "industry standards" and this situation changes.
With software products that allow you to define your own frames you
can scan more than one physical frame in a single pass although it
requires manual intervention at the end to split the frames off.
But don't even think of scanning the entire flatbed surface in one go:
at the high resolution required by dia's, you'd be talking memory
sizes in the multi-Gb range...

well...i hope u have a good computer when u scan about 30 pictures in one
"batch" (high resolution maybe with ice/fare)...i guess u would need more
ram then u actually have to handy the large file u get out of the
scanner...

just my thought....
cheers
stefan

 

[Alain]

Alain apparently said,on my timestamp of 12/09/2005 4:24 AM:


Scan one frame, measure the time. Multiply by the number of dia's
you are scanning. That is the total unattended scantime. Realistic or
not is a subjective evaluation, I'd say. The only thing that "batch
scanning" buys you is not having to individually load and remove dia's
for each scan. I assume of course you are talking about flatbed
scanners, that's what a 4990 or 9950 are.

Has anybody an idea about the scantime for one frame with a 4990 or
9950?

 

[Gordon Moat]

(e-mail address removed) apparently said,on my timestamp of 12/09/2005 1:14 AM:


Now that I've read the info on the site, I see no evidence
anywhere that it is different from any of the others.
Are you sure it can scan more than one frame in a single pass?
Please don't repeat that it "has batch scaning", ok?

--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
in sunny Sydney, Australia
(e-mail address removed)

The only ones I know of that can do that are all high end scanners. I suggest
you start by looking at the Creo oXYgen scanning software. In that software,
the batch only refers to scanning the entire bed a second time, then placing
all the files into one folder location; that would be 96 scans of mounted 35
mm slides just for one example. The idea is that the entire bed is imaged,
but the locations of various film pieces is designated by the holders. There
is also a custom holder for scanning several different sizes films in one
pass, though in such usage each different film needs to be designated prior
to starting a scan operation. The creo oXYgen software only work on creo
iQSmart and EverSmart scanners.

ICG drum scanners also have a one pass for multiple film pieces operation.
Some other drum scanner makers might offer similar software. The Dainippon
Screen Cezanne and Fuji Electronic Imaging flat scanners also offer software
options for one pass scanning of multiple film pieces. Bottom line is that
you pay quite a bit for this step up in productivity.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com>

 

[Noons]

well...i hope u have a good computer when u scan about 30 pictures in one
"batch" (high resolution maybe with ice/fare)...i guess u would need more
ram then u actually have to handy the large file u get out of the
scanner...

Like I said: not to be done with a flatbed full of dia's.
In fact my pc can hardly cope with three 35mm frames at the same time.

But if the software had some real smarts as opposed to just
automating a manual process, it would be possible.
Besides, this would be a deadset ringer to use the memory addressing
ability of one of those new fancy 64-bit processors.

Better than use them to run screen savers, at any rate...

 

[Noons]

options for one pass scanning of multiple film pieces. Bottom line is that
you pay quite a bit for this step up in productivity.

Thanks for the info on the pro stuff. Yup, that seems to be an option
in more expensive drum scanners. In fact, I couldn't believe they'd
use
the one-at-a-time software commonly available: it would be just too
expensive to run a scanning business that way!

What I can't understand is why software is not made for normal
consumer-grade flatbed scanners to do the same type of scanning.
It's not a hardware limitation, as far as I understand the process.
Just that no one has figured out a way of doing this reliably
with 35mm frames? Ah well, maybe someone will have a spark
of inspiration...

 

[Noons]

Has anybody an idea about the scantime for one frame with a 4990 or
9950?

I guess it is highly dependent on the speed of the PC and how much
image post-processing you add up.
What I can do is give you an example of times I get.

AMD XP2800+, 512Mb memory, very fast 80Gb disk, USB 2,
standard single full size 35mm frame.
2400dpi, no ice, direct to raw: < 2 minutes.
2400dpi, low ice, direct to raw: < 4 minutes.
4800dpi, low ice, direct to raw, interpolated to 2400: < 8 minutes.

Software used: Vuescan and Epsonscan, latest versions. Epsonscan
is a little bit slower because it does the colour processing
upfront whereas Vuescan stores the entire scan unprocessed (just ice
and reduction interpolation applied).

HTH

 

[Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen]

The reason they don't do this, is probably that you want to set the
integration time (exposure) for exch frame individually. If the
scanner had a sufficient number of noise-free bits, you could do what
you describe, but even ColorQuartet which runs my drum scanner does
not do it that way.

Btw., Epson Scan does exactly what you describe for the *preview* in
thumbnail mode, except it does not create any files, of course.

N> - apparently said,on my timestamp of 11/09/2005 12:25 AM:

N> No it isn't. You did not understand what I said.
N> What Epson and Canon call a batch is not this.

N> I meant:
N> Put four strips of film side by side on the flat bed.
N> Now, scan the first frame of EVERY one of them in
N> ONE single pass of the scan head. Then get the software to
N> strip off the bits that don't matter and separate the pictures
N> for each frame into spearate files.

N> One single pass of the head.

N> THAT is batch scanning. No scanner program I've seen so
N> far does this. What they do is more appropriately called
N> automatic scanning but it certainly ain't no batch.

N> --
N> Cheers
N> Nuno Souto
N> in sunny Sydney, Australia
N> (e-mail address removed)

 

[Alain]

I guess it is highly dependent on the speed of the PC and how much
image post-processing you add up.
What I can do is give you an example of times I get.

AMD XP2800+, 512Mb memory, very fast 80Gb disk, USB 2,
standard single full size 35mm frame.
2400dpi, no ice, direct to raw: < 2 minutes.
2400dpi, low ice, direct to raw: < 4 minutes.
4800dpi, low ice, direct to raw, interpolated to 2400: < 8 minutes.

Software used: Vuescan and Epsonscan, latest versions. Epsonscan
is a little bit slower because it does the colour processing
upfront whereas Vuescan stores the entire scan unprocessed (just ice
and reduction interpolation applied).

Thanks, I think I will end up with 10 min/dia :-( The 4490 with the
capacity of only 4 slides (and a lower Dmax) becomes an alternative to
(40 or 80 minutes every run isn't the big usability difference).

Still could take a very long time to scan my collection.

Alain

 

[Reader]

Thanks, I think I will end up with 10 min/dia :-( The 4490 with the
capacity of only 4 slides (and a lower Dmax) becomes an alternative to
(40 or 80 minutes every run isn't the big usability difference).

Okay, I can't stand it. What is a dia? Where did that word come from?

Reader

 

[Bart van der Wolf]

SNIP

Okay, I can't stand it. What is a dia?
Where did that word come from?

Dia is short for Diapositive, a term used in Europe for a photographic
positive on transparent material.
It probably originated from the Greek "Dia" or thru.

Bart

 

[Noons]

Dia is short for Diapositive, a term used in Europe for a photographic
positive on transparent material.
It probably originated from the Greek "Dia" or thru.

or the sanskrit "diaper" for "don't-wanna-look-through-it"...

 

[Noons]

Still could take a very long time to scan my collection.

Tell me about it!
(approx. 2000 dia's plus as many colour negs to go through...)

 

[Reader]

SNIP

Dia is short for Diapositive, a term used in Europe for a photographic
positive on transparent material.
It probably originated from the Greek "Dia" or thru.

Bart

Thanks.

Reader