9800 pro question

C

Charlie Brookhart

I currently have a G-Force FX 5200 video card in my computer and I am
thinking about wanting to upgrade it to an ATI 9800 pro. I am wondering if I
will have to make additional system modifications to support the video card.

The current setup of my system is:
250W power supply
512MB memory
XP home
g-force fx 5200 graphics card
 
S

Son of Blahguy

Charlie Brookhart said:
I currently have a G-Force FX 5200 video card in my computer and I am
thinking about wanting to upgrade it to an ATI 9800 pro. I am wondering if
I
will have to make additional system modifications to support the video
card.

The current setup of my system is:
250W power supply
512MB memory
XP home
g-force fx 5200 graphics card

CPU?,
Probably need a 350 Watt PSU minimum.
Try this as a guide.
<http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/>
 
S

Shawk

Charlie said:
I currently have a G-Force FX 5200 video card in my computer and I am
thinking about wanting to upgrade it to an ATI 9800 pro. I am wondering if I
will have to make additional system modifications to support the video card.

The current setup of my system is:
250W power supply
512MB memory
XP home
g-force fx 5200 graphics card

Likely you will need to upgrade the PSU (I have a 430W Antec Truepower -
recommend these) and you should also look at your case and ensure that
there is enough ventilation to keep the card cool. Well worth doing
tho'. You will see an amazing difference from what you have now. Shaun
 
C

Charlie Brookhart

CPU is a P4 2.6G. What is involved in changing out the power supply? Is
that something that is easy to do?
 
N

NightSky 421

Charlie Brookhart said:
CPU is a P4 2.6G. What is involved in changing out the power supply? Is
that something that is easy to do?


Generally speaking, it is easy to change the power supply. Assuming, of
course, that you don't have a proprietary brand-name computer. :) In my
experience, the worst thing about changing the power supply can be the rat's
nest of wires!
 
B

Blaedmon

yea changing out PSU is very easy, all you need is a screwdriver. Just shut
off everything, take out the PSU cable, open your case, unplug all the power
cables and unscrew thre PSU, replace it with another and plug all your
devices in, and screw the PSU in the case. Easy chips.
 
N

Nerdillius Maximus

Charlie Brookhart said:
CPU is a P4 2.6G. What is involved in changing out the power supply? Is
that something that is easy to do?

4 screws on the back, one big mobo ATX power connector, maybe a secondary
one too, all the peripheral power plugs...what, five minutes, maybe fifteen
to 1/2 hr. for the neat freak or first-timer? No biggie. Some Dell boxes
(not all...) you have to watch out for (Dell sucks!) because they use
non-standard pinouts on the mobo power connector, which will fry the mobo
and PSU unless you fancy a Dell direct replacement or a little pinout
rearrangement on the ol' mobo plug...always check model-specific specs...

The one thing I will say for Dell is that their power supplies are fairly
good, despite perhaps a low rating, even if their "Dell Dude" got nabbed
buying a bag of doobage in extremely indiscreet fashion, and they outsource
their tech support to the lowest bidder in India or God-only-knows where
else, where they tell you "Reinstall Windows" in broken English to just
about everything...

If your box is not stuffed with cards and drives, your existing power supply
*might* work fine, although 250W seems a little low for comfort, and I
definitely agree it should be swapped for at least a decent 400-watter just
for GP's. I've had 9800 Pros working fine being fed by 300W PSUs in many
cases. The overall wattage rating can be a little deceptive. One should suss
out what the amperage output for each rail (+/- 12v, +/- 5v, 3.3v, with the
+es being critical), and the current ripple spec, etc. VA=W, and the sum of
the amperage ratings on each rail multiplied by wall socket voltage (it sez
115 on the back of the PSU on the little red voltage switch here, or 230 for
most of our foreign friends, though it reads ~121 from my UPS sockets...)
should add up to the overall wattage rating (sometimes it doesn't...).
Apparently the Radeons with the Molex connector (separate power plug) draw
power from the 5v. rail; I'd look for a rating of no less than 25A here (+5
rail), preferably 30-40. Some high-rated cheapo PSUs are rated at surge max,
rather than continuous stable output, like cheapo audio amps and speakers
are rated at PMPO or peak transient handling, rather than RMS, which is
industry standard. And some put out extremely "dirty" power at their
otherwise accurate rating...the readout on the ol' Fluke drifts all over the
place under continuous load (I have a carbon pile resistor to simulate a
consistent, calibrated load...)...the sign of the "cheap capacitor blues",
usually...

I just looked and found a good page with PSU requirement info very
well-described, because I think it will help people out a bit:

http://firingsquad.com/print_article.asp?current_section=Guides&fs_article_i
d=1162

Make sure you completely uninstall the Nvidia video drivers thru the control
panel and reboot to standard VGA before uninstalling and plopping in the new
card. It also helps to either change the card right before reboot after
uninstall, or delete the previous card's "Standard VGA" listing from Device
Manager, so your new card is the only one enumerated in the registry.
Residual traces of competitors' driver files can really mess things up
sometimes. Nvidia's driver uninstall scripts are rather thorough. ATI's have
gotten much better recently (they used to leave all sorts of orphaned
entries requiring a major exorcism, or a serious rollback, which is a
feature I don't really need, but is very useful for many...), now they only
leave a few mostly non-critical slop behind. Other manufacturers' driver
packages are not nearly so well self-policing as either Nvidia's or ATI's.
Creative soundcard driver packages are right at the bottom of the barrel,
they leave so much crap behind. I just bebop into the registry and clean it
all out, and S'n'D applicable system files, but this ain't for
everyone...and this type of humbuggery brings us back to "Standard Tech
Support Sinecure 101": "Fdisk. Reformat. Reinstall Windoze"...

HTH. :).
 
C

Charlie Brookhart

Seems to be easy enough. Computer model is a Dell Dimmension 8300. Don't
know if that makes a difference in terms of how difficult it might be.
 
B

Bobby

PSU could be a problem.

But try it anyway. It might work out of the box.

Replacing a PSU is relatively easy. Just note where you are removing the
current power connections from so that you can reconnect them in the same
places.

Before you do anything, check that your PC doesn't have unusual power
connections. I see that it's a Dell which might be a little non-standard.

If in doubt, take your complete PC (well, the main box) to a store and ask
them to upgrade the power supply for you. Alternatively, come to Glasgow in
sunny Scotland and I'll do it for free. ;-)

BTW the 9800 Pro is about 10,000 times faster than your current card.

Bobby
 
P

Patrick Michael

Charlie Brookhart said:
Seems to be easy enough. Computer model is a Dell Dimmension 8300. Don't
know if that makes a difference in terms of how difficult it might be.

Hmm...Some Dell's do have proprietery power supplies, but I have also seen
many that *don't*. You might want to talk to Dell or somebody to determine
if yours does.
 
B

Bobby

The cables look fine but the actual supply is more rectangular than a
standard PSU so a new one might not fit into your box.

It looks like you will have to just install the card and hope that it works
OK. It might.

Otherwise you will need to get a higher powered Dell PSU that is compatible
with your computer case.

Begin by trying the card. ATI aren't stupid. Their cards are designed to fit
most standard PCs without upgrading them.

Bobby
 
G

Gordon Scott

Bobby said:
The cables look fine but the actual supply is more rectangular than a
standard PSU so a new one might not fit into your box.

It looks like you will have to just install the card and hope that it works
OK. It might.

Otherwise you will need to get a higher powered Dell PSU that is compatible
with your computer case.

Begin by trying the card. ATI aren't stupid. Their cards are designed to fit
most standard PCs without upgrading them.

Bobby

you'll also need to plug a lead into the video card, which needs its own
power.
I suggest you take the box to a mom pop type store that sells a good
selection of components, and compare your ps to a replacement, the
diagram posted makes me think dell might have a propriatary design (most
psu's dont look so rectangular)This shop should be able to help you if
they have any morals in the area of customer service, and hope to win you
over as a future customer, they might assist you to swap it out right in
the store, or at least you will see if a clone PSU will fit the dell box.
I hope you have learned to at least NEVER buy a branded machine ie: dell
gateway hp etc etc. Enermax is a well respected solid and reliable power
supply.

Gordon
 
M

Michael W. Ryder

Gordon said:
you'll also need to plug a lead into the video card, which needs its own
power.
I suggest you take the box to a mom pop type store that sells a good
selection of components, and compare your ps to a replacement, the
diagram posted makes me think dell might have a propriatary design (most
psu's dont look so rectangular)This shop should be able to help you if
they have any morals in the area of customer service, and hope to win you
over as a future customer, they might assist you to swap it out right in
the store, or at least you will see if a clone PSU will fit the dell box.
I hope you have learned to at least NEVER buy a branded machine ie: dell
gateway hp etc etc. Enermax is a well respected solid and reliable power
supply.

Gordon

Unless you have a special adapter you can not use a normal power supply
in most Dells. They changed the layout of the 20 pin connector probably
just to prevent people from fixing their machines themselves. There are
also power supplies available from companies such as PC Power & Cooling
that work with Dells but they are only available from the web.
 
B

Bobby

I hope you have learned to at least NEVER buy a branded machine

Amen to that. These guys should be taken to court for their anti-competitive
practices. Lots of pointless design changes to lock-in customers. Shameful.
This power supply is a case-in-point.
 
C

Charlie Brookhart

Well, according to Dell support, I can get any power supply from a place
like Best Buy and put in the computer and have it work. They also say that
size doesn't matter (according to the diagram the power supply is
rectangular and the standard size is square).

According to the Dell parts department, I have to buy the power supply from
them. The only power supply they have is a 305W. With that in mind, should I
not get the 9800 pro?

As far as buying a brand name system, I understand that it might make
upgrading the parts more difficult, but it is easier to obtain tech support.
Gateway had service centers for support before most of them closed. If for
example I bought an e-machine system or some other non brand name system,
where would it be serviced?
 
G

Gordon Scott

Charlie said:
Well, according to Dell support, I can get any power supply from a place
like Best Buy and put in the computer and have it work. They also say that
size doesn't matter (according to the diagram the power supply is
rectangular and the standard size is square).

According to the Dell parts department, I have to buy the power supply from
them. The only power supply they have is a 305W. With that in mind, should I
not get the 9800 pro?

As far as buying a brand name system, I understand that it might make
upgrading the parts more difficult, but it is easier to obtain tech support.
Gateway had service centers for support before most of them closed. If for
example I bought an e-machine system or some other non brand name system,
where would it be serviced?

A well built machine with quality parts will never need servicing. I
build my boxes so that I never have to see those customers again, isnt
that the true aim of reliability?
And a local shop will always be easier to deal with than some phone line
tech support, or mailing your box to dell etc.
 
J

J. Clarke

Gordon said:
A well built machine with quality parts will never need servicing. I
build my boxes so that I never have to see those customers again, isnt
that the true aim of reliability?

So where do you find these indestructible hard disks and electrolytic
capacitors that never, ever dry out and so on? "Never" is a long time.
 
J

J. Clarke

Charlie said:
I currently have a G-Force FX 5200 video card in my computer and I am
thinking about wanting to upgrade it to an ATI 9800 pro. I am wondering if
I will have to make additional system modifications to support the video
card.

The current setup of my system is:
250W power supply
512MB memory
XP home
g-force fx 5200 graphics card

Go to <http://www.pcpowercooling.com>, plug your model into the Dell power
supply selector and take the biggest one they have that fits that model.
If you've got an 8300 then they have a 425 watt.
 

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