802.11G health issue and home network cabling question

T

T. T.

Hi dear all:

Recently after reading some articles I have some concerns about 802.11G
WLAN health issue:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060222-6235.html
http://www.netstumbler.org/archive/index.php/t-12052.html

Is Wifi or WLAN verified to have some health issues with humans? We
have a baby (13 months) at home so we really don't want to take any
risk.

Because of this, I'm thinking of giving up our current wireless LAN and
use fixed line instead. However, although I'm a family handyman, but I
have never did category-5 home wiring project before. I don't want to
drill a hole on the wall only to find out that there is a water pipe
behind the wall!!! So, is this some kind of project that I could do
myself or I better hire a professional electrian or handyman to do the
job?? Is there any online resources or advices that people could give
me about this kind of home project? Many thanks!
 
R

Rod Speed

T. T. said:
Recently after reading some articles I have some
concerns about 802.11G WLAN health issue:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060222-6235.html
http://www.netstumbler.org/archive/index.php/t-12052.html
Is Wifi or WLAN verified to have some health issues with humans?
Nope.

We have a baby (13 months) at home so we really don't want to take any risk.

Then you had better not have any kids.
Because of this, I'm thinking of giving up our current wireless LAN
and use fixed line instead. However, although I'm a family handyman,
but I have never did category-5 home wiring project before. I don't
want to drill a hole on the wall only to find out that there is a water
pipe behind the wall!!!

It usually isnt that hard to work out where there is no possibility of any
pipe, because there is nothing that uses water anywhere near there
and to check that with a stud/pipe/wiring detector before you drill.
So, is this some kind of project that I could do myself

Yes, it aint rocket science.
or I better hire a professional electrian or handyman to do the job??

They do manage to drill into water pipes.
Is there any online resources or advices that people
could give me about this kind of home project?

Yep, plenty.
 
D

Dmitri

T. T. wrote:


Hi dear all:
Recently after reading some articles I have some concerns about 802.11G
WLAN health issue:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060222-6235.html
http://www.netstumbler.org/archive/index.php/t-12052.html
Is Wifi or WLAN verified to have some health issues with humans? We
have a baby (13 months) at home so we really don't want to take any
risk.

Your cell phone is designed to throw the signal hundreds of times farther
and you hold it right to your ear, right? So no, no worries there.

Because of this, I'm thinking of giving up our current wireless LAN and
use fixed line instead.

Not necessarily because of that but cabling has lots of other benefits
that still justify the need for it. You cannot power a device over
wireless, just to give an example. Read http://searchwarp.com/swa23809.htm
for more pointers.
However, although I'm a family handyman, but I
have never did category-5 home wiring project before. I don't want to
drill a hole on the wall only to find out that there is a water pipe
behind the wall!!!

They make stud finders for that. Don't you have one already?
So, is this some kind of project that I could do
myself or I better hire a professional electrian or handyman to do the
job??


It could be real fun and as an added bonus you will learn a lot about your
house (leaks, rots, wasps – you name it ;-)) doing it. So, yes go for it!

Is there any online resources or advices that people could give
me about this kind of home project? Many thanks!

Sorry for the shameless plug but we carry a lot of useful info, including
an e-book on the matter (link in my signature). You are welcome!

--

Best Regards,
Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD
http://www.cabling-design.com/
Home Cabling Guide, Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful
resources for premises cabling users and pros

--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| http://forums.cabling-design.com/
| *** a better way to USENET ***
| no-spam Web and RSS interface to your favorite newsgroup
| alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.dcom.cabling,alt.internet.wireless - messages and counting!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
D

decaturtxcowboy

Rod said:
It usually isnt that hard to work out where there is no possibility of any
pipe, because there is nothing that uses water anywhere near there
and to check that with a stud/pipe/wiring detector before you drill.

Poke a small in the dry wall or drill a small hole very slowly without
much pressure on the drill...go in about 3/4 of an inch and use a coat
hanger to fish around for anything on the back side. And of course, get
a decent stud finder and an energized wire detector.
 
J

Jeff Liebermann

T. T. said:
Recently after reading some articles I have some concerns about 802.11G
WLAN health issue:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060222-6235.html
http://www.netstumbler.org/archive/index.php/t-12052.html

Concern and demonstrable proof are quite different. At the power
levels of a typical Wi-Fi system, I would say that you and the baby
are safe.

Let's pretend that there is an effect. According to inverse square
law, the exposure is proportional to the square of the distance.
Double the distance, 1/4th the exposure. 4 times the distance, and
1/16th the exposure. That means keep your distance and you're much
safer.

However, you're not built in only 2 dimensions. RF absorption (as
opposed to exposure) is proportional to the cube of the distance.
Double the distance and you absorb 1/8th the RF. 4 times the
distance, and you absorb 1/64th the energy. This is roughly how the
SAR (specific absorption rate) is calculated for cell phones.

After distance, the next most important parameters are power and duty
cycle. Power is easy. If the transmitter is on the air all the time,
it's 100% duty cycle and you get the maximum absorption. However, if
your transmitter is a GSM cell phone, it only transmits 1/8th the
time. Therefore, you only get 1/8th the exposure. Wi-Fi varies in
duty cycle. With no traffic, the duty cycle is something like 1/100th
where all that gets transmitted are the beacon frames. Download
furiously and it approaches 100% duty cycle.

Now, let's warp some numbers. The sun cranks out 1000 watts of energy
per square meter at noon. The average wireless access point transmits
about 15 milliwatts (0.015 watts) of RF. At a distance of 1 meter,
that's a fabulous 15 milliwatts per square meter exposure. Therefore
the sun delivers 66,666 times more power than your wireless access
point. Sure, it's at different frequencies, but if the tin foil hat
crowd can ignore frequency effects, then so can I. Like I said, "warp
some numbers".

The Canadian university president declared that some unreferenced
Calif PUC study said "more research is necessary". Well, yes... more
research is always necessary. That's how researchers get their grant
funding. There's no end to research and every research paper I've
ever read has ended in "more research is necessary".

Anyway, enough numbers and educational politics. If you're seriously
worried about RF exposure and don't want to take any chances, then
running CAT5 is the obvious alternative. Just ignore the RF coming
from TV, AM, FM, cellular, military, radar, aviation, and commercial
wireless systems. Depending on your location, such RF levels can
easily exceed your Wi-Fi levels.

Let's do some more math. How far would an FM broadcast station need
to be away from your house to have the same RF exposure levels as your
Wi-Fi at a distance of 1 meter. Well, the math is simple enough:
Power_1 / Power_2 = Distance_1 ^2 / Distance_2 ^2
0.015 watts / 50,000 watts (ERP) = 1 meter^2 / Distance_2 ^2
Distance_2 = 1800 meters
So, if you have an FM broadcast station within about a mile, it's
producing about the same RF exposure level as your wireless access
point at 1 meter. Actually the FM station is producing quite a bit
more because it runs at 100% duty cycle while Wi-Fi averages much
less, but I'll use worst case just like all the alarmist reports.

So, what can you do to reduce RF exposure? Aluminum foil wall paper
is available. Frequency selective wallpaper can be found:
| http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6240
You can turn your house into an RF screen room with RF absorbent
non-reflective material. Actually, that might not be a bad idea if
the kid turn out to be a chronic screamer.

Another easy fix is to simply turn off the transmitter when it's not
being used. Carbon filled tubing slipped over the antenna works
nicely. If you get a separate wireless access point and router, then
you can just unplug the wireless part when it's not being used.
Is Wifi or WLAN verified to have some health issues with humans?

Verified by the FCC, NIH, or a peer reviewed medical publication? To
the best of my limited knowledge, no such study has been verified. The
problem is that most of the studies are epidemiological, where the
research report attempt to correlate medical abnormalities with RF
exposure. Since this takes a long time, the sample grouping is never
differentiated by a single factor, and the preponderance of a
multitude of other contributory factors, the chances of an
epidemiological study finding something interesting *AND* repeatable,
is zilch.
We
have a baby (13 months) at home so we really don't want to take any
risk.

Read what I wrote in terms of the baby. Distance is the most
important factor. That means what you feed the kid and his immediate
environment is most important. Worry about those and not
environmental issues that fade rapidly with distance. There's also
more than a hint that growing up requires early exposure to bugs,
filth, chemicals, and toxins to build up a survivable immunity. That
which doesn't kill the kid make him/her stronger.
Because of this, I'm thinking of giving up our current wireless LAN and
use fixed line instead. However, although I'm a family handyman, but I
have never did category-5 home wiring project before.

It's not that difficult but does take some practice. Since you have a
kid, you should plan to redecorate or move things around about every 5
years. Might as well get used to running and terminating wires.
I don't want to
drill a hole on the wall only to find out that there is a water pipe
behind the wall!!!

Drill a small hole in the wall and shove a coat hanger in to see what
you're getting too close to. There are field detectors and toners for
locating AC wiring (that's not in conduit). You can hear water pipes
with a stethoscope. If you have money, you can get a fiber optic
inspection viewer. Lots of ways to sniff around inside a wall.

Incidentally, you biggest problem will not be hitting a wire or pipe.
It will be hitting a stud or firebreak with the drill. Unlike hanging
pictures on the wall, you want to avoid the studs when running CAT5.
Use a stud finder.
So, is this some kind of project that I could do
myself or I better hire a professional electrian or handyman to do the
job??

Your lack of imagination suggests limited abilities to do this right
the first time. Perhaps having an electrician show you how to do it
would be better than Learn by Destroying(tm).
Is there any online resources or advices that people could give
me about this kind of home project? Many thanks!

Yes. Google found a few. Lots of vendors have tutorials under their
"structured wiring" products. Dmitri has his site. You should be
able to find something.
 
H

Hackworth

T

Tony Hwang

Rod said:
Then you had better not have any kids.




It usually isnt that hard to work out where there is no possibility of any
pipe, because there is nothing that uses water anywhere near there
and to check that with a stud/pipe/wiring detector before you drill.




Yes, it aint rocket science.




They do manage to drill into water pipes.




Yep, plenty.
Hi, Rod
What is your credential to answer his question so well?
 
P

Paul

T. T. said:
Hi dear all:

Recently after reading some articles I have some concerns about 802.11G
WLAN health issue:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060222-6235.html
http://www.netstumbler.org/archive/index.php/t-12052.html

Is Wifi or WLAN verified to have some health issues with humans? We
have a baby (13 months) at home so we really don't want to take any
risk.

Because of this, I'm thinking of giving up our current wireless LAN and
use fixed line instead. However, although I'm a family handyman, but I
have never did category-5 home wiring project before. I don't want to
drill a hole on the wall only to find out that there is a water pipe
behind the wall!!! So, is this some kind of project that I could do
myself or I better hire a professional electrian or handyman to do the
job?? Is there any online resources or advices that people could give
me about this kind of home project? Many thanks!

You could always staple the wiring to the baseboards. (Locate an
Ethernet router at some central point, to cut down wire length.)
Or arrange all your computing devices in some central location
(the "computer room"). I have a suspended ceiling in my basement,
and drilling a hole in a closet gave me a way to get wiring up to
my "computer room".

This posting suggests using the attic crawl space, and descend to
meet a hole located in the wall. My house has no such space, so
I cannot do this. But I do have a finished basement with an
ugly ceiling.

http://groups.google.ca/group/comp.home.automation/msg/acba7e5c1b1c5dba?dmode=source

Try search terms like "pulling cat5 wire residential" in Google
and see what pops up.

Another option is to do networking over the existing AC wiring.
I don't know what the incidental radiation level is for this
technology, but it might be better than wireless devices.
Since the AC in North American homes is wired with two 110V
phases, you may need a bridging device (capacitive coupling?)
between the two phases at some point, to pass the signal from
one phase to another. Otherwise, the Homeplug signal might have to
go out to the pole transformer, before it can turn around
and get to the other phase in your house. I don't know
anything about this technology, and this is just a suggestion
as something to research if you decide to go this way.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,85003-page,1/article.html

Paul
 
D

Dmitri

Paul said:
You could always staple the wiring to the baseboards.

Since we are talking about category cables one should be extremely careful
with stapling anything. General rule of thumb is that the cable should be
able to move somewhat after it's installed. This way you can ensure the
jacket is not cinched and the pairs inside are not damaged. It hard to
achieve that with staples, even with rounded ones. Also, flat staples are
absolutely no-no because they permanently damage the cable by flattening
it out and jamming pairs into each other. Only rounded staples that match
the cable diameter should be used. Still, avoid even those if you can.

--

Best Regards,
Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD
http://www.cabling-design.com/
Home Cabling Guide, Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful
resources for premises cabling users and pros

--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| http://forums.cabling-design.com/
| *** a better way to USENET ***
| no-spam Web and RSS interface to your favorite newsgroup
| alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.dcom.cabling,alt.internet.wireless - messages and counting!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
R

Rod Speed

Tony Hwang said:
Rod Speed wrote
What is your credential to answer his question so well?

Physically built my own house and have enough of a clue
to realise that water pipes arent randomly placed in walls,
they are only where there is a need for a water pipe.

Same with power too.
 
J

johns

You want nice looking wall ports, and that can be a stinker
to install. They need to be attached to studs, and that can
mean cutting out a fair piece of sheet rock, and then repairing
that. Also, it is not easy to go sideways in a wall. Talk to
some pros, and get a price.

johns
 
B

Bob Vaughan

You want nice looking wall ports, and that can be a stinker
to install. They need to be attached to studs, and that can
mean cutting out a fair piece of sheet rock, and then repairing
that. Also, it is not easy to go sideways in a wall. Talk to
some pros, and get a price.

Agreed about going sideways.. Up and over or down and under is a better
bet..

There are a number of cut-in type mounting rings for datacom that work
quite well, and do not require attachment to a stud. Caddy makes them,
as does Carlon. You cut a hole of the right size, stick in the mounting
ring, pull the wire thru, terminate the wire, and mount the plate.
 
C

Conor

T. T. said:
Hi dear all:

Recently after reading some articles I have some concerns about 802.11G
WLAN health issue:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060222-6235.html
http://www.netstumbler.org/archive/index.php/t-12052.html

Is Wifi or WLAN verified to have some health issues with humans? We
have a baby (13 months) at home so we really don't want to take any
risk.
Is your cellphone switched on?
Is there cellular coverage in your area?
Do you use a Microwave Oven?
Do you have a CRT TV or PC Monitor?
Do you have electricity in your house?

BETTER TURN THEM ALL OFF QUICK - The radiation can cause brain tumors
etc.

It's all scaremongering bullshit.


--
Conor

I'm really a nice guy. If I had friends, they would tell you.

Earn commission on online purchases, £2.50 just for signing up:
http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/Conor/ref/index.htm
 
R

Rod Speed

johns said:
You want nice looking wall ports, and that can be a
stinker to install. They need to be attached to studs,

No they dont.
and that can mean cutting out a fair piece of sheet rock,

Nope, not if you use a stud finder.
and then repairing that.

No need if you do it properly.
Also, it is not easy to go sideways in a wall.

You dont need to do that.
Talk to some pros, and get a price.

No thanks.
 
B

Bob Willard

T. T. said:
Hi dear all:

Recently after reading some articles I have some concerns about 802.11G
WLAN health issue:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060222-6235.html
http://www.netstumbler.org/archive/index.php/t-12052.html

Is Wifi or WLAN verified to have some health issues with humans? We
have a baby (13 months) at home so we really don't want to take any
risk.

Because of this, I'm thinking of giving up our current wireless LAN and
use fixed line instead. However, although I'm a family handyman, but I
have never did category-5 home wiring project before. I don't want to
drill a hole on the wall only to find out that there is a water pipe
behind the wall!!! So, is this some kind of project that I could do
myself or I better hire a professional electrian or handyman to do the
job?? Is there any online resources or advices that people could give
me about this kind of home project? Many thanks!

I think you are over-reacting.

Before giving up WiFi, you should give up uWave ovens and cellphones.

uWave ovens are not thought to be dangerous if they work correctly; if
the door interlock fails, allowing the uWave to transmit when the door
is open, then the danger from that ~1000W radiator is huge. And, don't
put the cat in the nuker, unless you have a good fur stir fry recipe.

Cellphones are typically far more dangerous than PCs with WiFi, because
radiated power decreases with the square of distance. You hold a
cellphone with the antenna ~1 inch from your brain, while the antenna
in a laptop is likely to be ~18 inches from your brain, and therefore
~~1% of the danger of the cellphone.
 
D

decaturtxcowboy

johns said:
You want nice looking wall ports, and that can be a stinker
to install. They need to be attached to studs, and that can
mean cutting out a fair piece of sheet rock, and then repairing
that. Also, it is not easy to go sideways in a wall. Talk to
some pros, and get a price.

Nonsense...dropping a jack into a wall is pretty simple, at least for
those of us that do it all the time. Unless you have a horizontal cross
brace and then you'll need a Diversabit.

As Bob mentioned in his response, Caddy makes a low voltage rated
(telecom and data use) metal back plate. Haven't seen anything like that
at Lowes, but Home Depot carries the Leviton bracket. They also carry an
orange plastic boxless bracket (compared to a full box electrical outlet
box) in a ten-pack, but that seems overkill.

BTW, a nice way to firmly mount those metal brackets is to take an 8"
pair of water pump pliers and squeeze the wings or tabs against the
drywall (in addition to a drywall screw)...that way the faceplate
doesn't wiggle around.

Tool Tip...Rinse off your drywall saw and drill bits or anything else
that has drywall dust on it with a bit of WD-40. The dust is very
hydroscopic and attracts moisture which will rust out your tools.
 
D

decaturtxcowboy

Dmitri(Cabling-Design.com) said:
Since we are talking about category cables one should be extremely careful
with stapling anything.

Dmitri is so right! Customer did his own "cleanup" and stapled his CAT5
cable with an Arrow T-25 staple gun. I went back and did a cable test
and it wouldn't even pass CAT3 10 Mbps. Her didn't short out any pairs,
just crushed them to the point there were too many impedance bumps.

Lowes carries a new staple gun designed for network cables and coax with
special plastic insert staples.


Velcro® is your friend....
 
G

Guest

| Physically built my own house and have enough of a clue
| to realise that water pipes arent randomly placed in walls,
| they are only where there is a need for a water pipe.
|
| Same with power too.

Whether _you_ might need it or not, the National Electrical Code used in
the USA does specify a minimum of outlets distributed around. You can
expect to find wiring pretty much on any wall wider than 2 feet.
 
J

Jerry Peters

In comp.dcom.cabling johns said:
You want nice looking wall ports, and that can be a stinker
to install. They need to be attached to studs, and that can
mean cutting out a fair piece of sheet rock, and then repairing
that. Also, it is not easy to go sideways in a wall. Talk to
some pros, and get a price.

johns
google "old work box"; Electricians have been using them for years.
There's no reason the box needs to be attached to a stud. For
low-voltage wiring there are trim rings designed to be self-mounting
in the wall.

Jerry
 
Top