1st Build Advice Please

[Byte_da_chip]

I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:


Intel Pentium 4/ 3.4C GHz 800MHz FSB-------------$329.00

ABIT IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE i875P Chipset-----------$135.00

CORSAIR 184-Pin 512MB ECC REG DDR PC-3200, Model
CM72SD512RLP-3200----------------------------"X2"$250.00

HIS Excalibur RADEON X800 PRO IceQ II Video Card-$468.00

Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model
L01M160------------------------------------------$135.99

ASUS Black 16X16 Dual ±R/RW & 4X Double Layer Drive, Model
DRW-1604P---------------------------------------- $92.00

ASUS Black 52X32X52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive Model
CRW-5232AS--------------------------------------- $31.00

Thermaltake Black Xaser V Damier Full-Tower Case 420W Power
Supply-------------------------------------------$156.50

I/O Magic 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Internal Floppy Drive-- $21.00

SONY SDM-S73/B 17" LCD
Monitor------------------------------------------$409.00

IN WIN USB Digital Card Reader/Writer(Black) INTERNAL, Model CR
I530B-------------------------------------------- $19.75

Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX Certified Speaker System-$139.00

Microsoft Standard Wireless Optical Desktop Keyboard and
Mouse-------------------------------------------- $53.00

_______

$2238.74

Any advice on better hardware in the same price range, compatability
issues, or anything that you can think of would be GREATLY
appreciated!

 

[JK]

I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:

Intel Pentium 4/ 3.4C GHz 800MHz FSB-------------$329.00

Why use a 32 bit processor? Go for a 64 bit processor instead.
An Athlon 64 3500+ is only around $330. An Athlon 64 3500+
uses a socket 939 motherboard.

ABIT IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE i875P Chipset-----------$135.00

CORSAIR 184-Pin 512MB ECC REG DDR PC-3200, Model
CM72SD512RLP-3200----------------------------"X2"$250.00

Why registered ECC ram? If you really want registered ECC ram, you could
use an Opteron 148 rather than an Athlon 64 3500+, and get a Socket 940
motherboard (that is what an Opteron requires).

HIS Excalibur RADEON X800 PRO IceQ II Video Card-$468.00

Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model
L01M160------------------------------------------$135.99

ASUS Black 16X16 Dual ±R/RW & 4X Double Layer Drive, Model
DRW-1604P---------------------------------------- $92.00

ASUS Black 52X32X52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive Model
CRW-5232AS--------------------------------------- $31.00

Thermaltake Black Xaser V Damier Full-Tower Case 420W Power
Supply-------------------------------------------$156.50

I/O Magic 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Internal Floppy Drive-- $21.00

SONY SDM-S73/B 17" LCD
Monitor------------------------------------------$409.00

Why not get a 19" one? It is probably only around $100 more.

 

[Matt]

I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:

I'm surprised it's still possible to spend more than $2000 on a
computer. $2238 and you only get a 17" monitor? And no operating
system? I sense some wrong thinking somewhere.

 

[JK]

I'm surprised it's still possible to spend more than $2000 on a
computer. $2238 and you only get a 17" monitor? And no operating
system? I sense some wrong thinking somewhere.

So much for a 32 bit system is crazy. Paying $329 for a 32 bit cpu is
totally crazy. I have no idea why he wants to use very high priced
registered ECC ddr ram. He could go with an Athlon 64 3500+
for around $330, then use a $75 512 meg stick of PC3200 ddr ram.
That is $175 saved right there. Around $100 of that could go towards
choosing a 19" lcd monitor instead of a 17" one. I don't know why
he chose such a high priced video card. It seems a bit much, even
for a gamer. He didn't include the price of an OS.

 

[Raymond]

I think you're overspending for what you've got there.
I can do better for 1500 or less. CPU, memory,
video card, monitor, power supply all seem overpriced
to me. A 17in LCD coupled with a $468 vid card is a
mismatch. For gaming, I wouldn't buy a LCD, especially one
under 19inch. Once you've used a 19 there is no going
back. When you can get a great 19inch NEC apperture
grille CRT for under 250, why spend 400 for a 17inch LCD?

Generally, the latest and greatest often isn't the greatest,
because the latest is often the buggiest. This is true for hardware
just like it is for software. That's why it's often wiser to buy more
mature models, not always, but that's the case more often than not.

Since it's your first build, I think you're going to
realize that doing it right is more complicated than
you may have imagined. Configuring everything
just right is not easy, there are tons of minor
issues that can come up. So besides buying right, you need
to spend time researching about potential problems and issues, such
as install orders, bigLBA issues, BIOS settings, troubleshooting
techniques etc. Buying and building right is not as easy as some
people make out. I usually like to pay a visit to the manufacturer's support
site, check some forums, Intel and MS support sites, and various online
reviews on www, besides newsgroups.

 

[Dave C.]

I'm gonna finally build my first box and would appreciate any and all
advice on hardware. I'd like to keep it around $2000. As you can see,
I'm already a little over per Newegg. Here are my tentative plans:


Intel Pentium 4/ 3.4C GHz 800MHz FSB-------------$329.00

ABIT IC7-G MAXII ADVANCE i875P Chipset-----------$135.00

CORSAIR 184-Pin 512MB ECC REG DDR PC-3200, Model
CM72SD512RLP-3200----------------------------"X2"$250.00

HIS Excalibur RADEON X800 PRO IceQ II Video Card-$468.00

Maxtor Ultra Series Kit 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model
L01M160------------------------------------------$135.99

ASUS Black 16X16 Dual ±R/RW & 4X Double Layer Drive, Model
DRW-1604P---------------------------------------- $92.00

ASUS Black 52X32X52 IDE Internal CD-RW Drive Model
CRW-5232AS--------------------------------------- $31.00

Thermaltake Black Xaser V Damier Full-Tower Case 420W Power
Supply-------------------------------------------$156.50

I/O Magic 1.44MB 3.5 Inch Internal Floppy Drive-- $21.00

SONY SDM-S73/B 17" LCD
Monitor------------------------------------------$409.00

IN WIN USB Digital Card Reader/Writer(Black) INTERNAL, Model CR
I530B-------------------------------------------- $19.75

Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX Certified Speaker System-$139.00

Microsoft Standard Wireless Optical Desktop Keyboard and
Mouse-------------------------------------------- $53.00

_______

$2238.74

Any advice on better hardware in the same price range, compatability
issues, or anything that you can think of would be GREATLY
appreciated!

OK, I see you've gotten no helpful suggestions so far. You can shave a
hundred bucks off this system and not lose anything, performance wise. Get
a 3.0E OEM prescott and a Cooler Master Aero 4 Lite. At half speed (QUIET),
that cooler will keep a Prescott UNDER 100F at full load. (no, that's not a
typo) You can get a Samsung hard drive that is just as fast, quieter, and
forty bucks less. Ditch the CDR/W drive, as that is redundant. Now you're
only fifty bucks over budget, and you haven't sacrificed ANYTHING at all.
Your power supply is good, but it's less than forty bucks if you buy it
separately. Do you really need to spend ~$115 on a CASE?!? Shit, you could
probably find something high quality that looks great for half that, and
then you'd be UNDER BUDGET.

If you want to trim this down even more, ditch the floppy drive. (when was
the last time you actually used one of those?) Also, really good high-end
865PE mainboards can be had for MUCH cheaper than $135 . . . and they hold
their own with the 875 chipset mainboards. Also, do you really need ECC
RAM? Well, you would for your original mainboard, but I'd try to find a
mainboard that doesn't require that.

Follow all that, and you might be able to bring in this build for under
$1900 (well under) without sacrificing a thing. -Dave

 

[Dave C.]

I think you're overspending for what you've got there.
I can do better for 1500 or less. CPU, memory,
video card, monitor, power supply all seem overpriced
to me. A 17in LCD coupled with a $468 vid card is a
mismatch. For gaming, I wouldn't buy a LCD, especially one
under 19inch. Once you've used a 19 there is no going
back.

I disagree. Early LCD monitors suffered from ghosting, but he shouldn't
have that problem with any current LCD monitor, unless he really cheaps out
on it. A decent name-brand 17" LCD is going to be as large as a 19" CRT, as
far as viewing area goes. My nephew is an avid gamer. He loves playing
high-speed action games on NEC brand LCD monitors including my LCD1760V and
his own LCD1565. Note that's a 15" LCD monitor, and it is a kick-butt
gaming monitor. The image quality BLOWS AWAY anything that uses a CRT, and
it has no ghosting at all. Any mid-range 17" LCD should be just as good (if
not better) for gaming now than any 19" CRT. It costs more, but it frees up
gobs of desk space, also. -Dave

 

[Raymond]

Ghosting is not the only issue with LCDs, there
are issues with angle of view, brightness,
resolutions dependencies, and others. It's
time has not come, not for me anyway.

 

[Byte_da_chip]

OK, I see you've gotten no helpful suggestions so far. You can shave a
hundred bucks off this system and not lose anything, performance wise. Get
a 3.0E OEM prescott and a Cooler Master Aero 4 Lite. At half speed (QUIET),
that cooler will keep a Prescott UNDER 100F at full load. (no, that's not a
typo) You can get a Samsung hard drive that is just as fast, quieter, and
forty bucks less. Ditch the CDR/W drive, as that is redundant. Now you're
only fifty bucks over budget, and you haven't sacrificed ANYTHING at all.
Your power supply is good, but it's less than forty bucks if you buy it
separately. Do you really need to spend ~$115 on a CASE?!? Shit, you could
probably find something high quality that looks great for half that, and
then you'd be UNDER BUDGET.

If you want to trim this down even more, ditch the floppy drive. (when was
the last time you actually used one of those?) Also, really good high-end
865PE mainboards can be had for MUCH cheaper than $135 . . . and they hold
their own with the 875 chipset mainboards. Also, do you really need ECC
RAM? Well, you would for your original mainboard, but I'd try to find a
mainboard that doesn't require that.

Follow all that, and you might be able to bring in this build for under
$1900 (well under) without sacrificing a thing. -Dave

Ok, I see I have some rethinking to do since I want to get this right
the first time. One note: I didn't realize using ECC RAM was such a
big deal. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the good advice.
Nothing beats getting tips from people who really know their shit!
Thanks a million!

 

[JK]

Do you plan to play Doom 3? If so, I suggest that you look at this.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

 

[JK]

Ok, I see I have some rethinking to do since I want to get this right
the first time.

In that case you don't want a 32 bit processor. An athlon 64 3000+
is only around $150. It is great for running 32 bit software,

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=1

and will allow you to upgrade to 64 bit software and/or run 32 bit software
at the same time. The Athlon 64 processors are superb for games,
especially Doom 3.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

A $150 Athlon 64 3000+ beats an $820 Pentium 4 3.2 ghz EE
running Doom 3.

 

[JAD]

21 Sep 2004, 12:52pm ET

Last price:13.07
0.28 or (2.18%) up

Day's Low & High: 12.93 - 13.23
Open: 13.00
Previous Close: 12.79
Volume: 6,369,400
Avg. Volume: 10,368,515
Market Capitalization: 4,631.33 M
52-week range: 10.52 to 18.50

Keep up the good work how much is your commission?

 

[Dave C.]

Ok, I see I have some rethinking to do since I want to get this right
the first time. One note: I didn't realize using ECC RAM was such a
big deal. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the good advice.
Nothing beats getting tips from people who really know their shit!
Thanks a million!

There's nothing wrong with using ECC RAM, other than ECC RAM is usually more
expensive. You don't need ECC unless you are going to be running some kind
of mission-critical server that has to be up 24/7 with no on-site support.
Even then, you could get by OK without it, as long as you don't skimp on
whatever RAM you buy. If it's stability and speed you are after, you don't
need ECC to achieve that. -Dave

 

[Dave C.]

OK, I am totally ****ing FED UP with all these morons insisting that AMD is
faster and cheaper than Intel, PERIOD. I am a HUGE AMD fan. So it's
incredibly ironic that I should feel compelled to defend Intel against
repetitive, undeserved LIES posted on this ng and others about how AMD chips
are both faster AND cheaper than Intel chips. At any particular point in
time, that might be true, but it hasn't been true for quite a while, and it
isn't true NOW. For anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass, or an
axe to grind, and wants to know the plain, simple truth, here it is:

According to pricewatch, same price range at the moment would be:

P4 3.2 Prescott vs. Athlon64 3200+ or

P4 3.4 Prescott vs. Athlon64 3400+

Beyond that range, you can pay up to several hundred dollars for either an
Intel or AMD chip, but hardly anybody gives a damn about those chips, as
hardly anybody spends as much on a processor as they do on the entire rest
of their system combined.

So the P4 3.2/3.4 and Athlon64 3200/3400 would be the best indicators of who
has the best bang for buck, at the moment.

Gaming: OpenGL: The Intel chips are much faster
Gaming: DX8: The AMD chips are faster, no doubt about it
Gaming: DX9: It's virtually a tie, as the AMD chips are two to three
TENTHS of a percentage point faster than Intel.
So on the gaming benchmarks, that's one win for Intel, one win for AMD and
one tie.
GAMING OVERALL: TIED

Business Applications: Office Applications: Intel blows AMD away
Business Applications: Internet Content Creation: Intel blows AMD away
Business Applications: Overall: Intel blows AMD away

Video Encoding: This one is so lopsided, AMD should have thrown in the
towel before entering the ring. Intel wins by a landslide.

Audio Encoding: Again, Intel wins by a landslide

Synthetic Benchmarks: (PC Mark 2004): Here, Intel blows AMD away on both
*CPU* and memory benchmarks

Actually, I'm glad you called me out on this issue. I was previously under
the impression that AMD and Intel were pretty well matched. But on
reviewing the benchmarks again, I'd have to conclude that AMD is only a good
idea if you plan to do nothing but DX8 gaming with your computer.
Otherwise, you are wasting your money buying an AMD chip.

Again, even at the same price for CPU, an Intel system can be cheaper to
build, as the P4 boards are more mature at this point, and thus there are
better bargains to be found. Considering that an Intel system will likely
be cheaper to build and WILL perform better on all benchmarks except DX8,
it's kind of a no-brainer as to which chip to build with, at the moment.

Intel is better than AMD, at the moment. The only way AMD could change that
would be to drop their prices by 30% or better. -Dave 9/20/04

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040322/index.html

The following is an article on the Athlon 64 2800+. But more interesting
is,
the benchmarks included in the article are a GREAT comparison of the 3.2GHz
P4
processors with the Athlon64 3200+. In this article, these two processors
are
pretty evenly matched, with Intel being faster on some benchmarks, and AMD
being faster on others.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2038&p=1

Now lets look at what Sharky Extreme has to report in their article about
the
3.4GHz Prescott processor. This one has benchmarks that are a great
comparison
of the 3.4GHz Intel chips with the Athlon64 3400+. Here, you have to be
careful,
as Sharky doesn't organize their charts in order of fastest to slowest. And
on
some charts, LOWER scores are better. But if you read all the benchmarks,
you
will again notice that the two chips are pretty evenly matched, with AMD
faster
on some and Intel faster on others.

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3261_3329681__1

 

[JK]

OK, according to pricewatch, same price range at the moment would be:

P4 3.2 Prescott vs. Athlon64 3200+ or

$220 vs $185. not exactly the same.

P4 3.4 Prescott vs. Athlon64 3400+

$282 vs $255. A bit closer.

Beyond that range, you can pay up to several hundred dollars for either an
Intel or AMD chip, but hardly anyobody gives a damn about those chips, as
hardly anybody spends as much on a processor as they do on the entire rest
of their system combined.

Many gamers buy more expensive processors. If someone spends
$600 on a video card, they can easily spend $300-$600 on a cpu.
Those doing scientific calculations also often tend to buy high
performing processors.

So the P4 3.2/3.4 and Athlon64 3200/3400 would be the best indicators of who
has the best bang for buck, at the moment.

Gaming: OpenGL: The Intel chips are much faster
Wrong!

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=10


Gaming: DX8: The AMD chips are faster, no doubt about it
Gaming: DX9: It's virtually a tie, as the AMD chips are two to three

TENTHS of a percentage point faster.
So on the gaming benchmarks, that's one win for Intel, one win for AMD and
one tie.

Wrong. Two wins for AMD and one tie.

GAMING OVERALL: TIED

Not quite.

Business Applications: Office Applications: Intel blows AMD away

What have you been smoking? Even An Athlon XP3000+ beats a
Pentium 4 3.2 ghz running business applications.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6

Business Applications: Internet Content Creation: Intel blows AMD

away

Not quite. In Content Creation Winstone 2004, an Athlon 64 3000+
beats a Pentium 4 3.2 ghz.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6

Business Applications: Overall: Intel blows AMD away

Video Encoding: This one is so lopsided, AMD should have thrown in the
towel before entering the ring. Intel wins by a landslide.

Intel has the lead here with 32 bit software, however with the Athlon 64

one can switch to 64 bit software. Here is an article comparing an
Opteron
to a 64 bit Xeon(expensive!) when runnning 64 bit software.

http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2163&p=1

Audio Encoding: Again, Intel wins by a landslide

Care to provide some benchmarks?

Synthetic Benchmarks: (PC Mark 2004): Here, Intel blows AMD away on both
*CPU* and memory benchmarks

Who buys a computer to run synthetic benchmarks.

Actually, I'm glad you called me out on this issue. I was previously under
the impression that AMD and Intel were pretty well matched. But on
reviewing the benchmarks again, I'd have to conclude that AMD is only a good
idea if you plan to do nothing but DX8 gaming with your computer.

LOL! Most PCs are used to run business software. A Pentium 4 3.2 ghz
can't even keep up with an Athlon XP3000+ in Business Winstone 2004.
The Athlon XP is less than half the price of the P4.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6

Otherwise, you are wasting your money buying an AMD chip.

Again, even at the same price for CPU, an Intel system can be cheaper to
build, as the P4 boards are more mature at this point, and thus there are
better bargains to be found.

Considering that an Intel system will likely
be cheaper to build

Not quite.

and WILL perform better

Perhaps for video editing and a few other obscure applications,
but not for what most people are running most of the time.

on all benchmarks except DX8,
it's kind of a no-brainer as to which chip to build with, at the moment.

Intel is better than AMD, at the moment.
LOL!

The only way AMD could change that
would be to drop their prices by 30% or better

LOL!. If Intel drops the P4 3.2 ghz to below the price of an Athlon
XP3000+
(around $95) , then it would be competitive for running
business software.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=6

If Intel drops the Pentium 4 3.4 ghz EE to below $255,
then it would be competitive with the Athlon 64 3400+ for those who
like playing Doom 3.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

 

[JAD]

amd'rs this whole setup is ridiculous................

I would rather have a p4 2.8 with a 22" LCD/CRT 2 gigs ram 200+gig
storage with an all -in- wonder card of some kind (because that's what
would benefit me), than that planned system for that money.

First off---- WHAT THE HECK are you gong to use it for? No one here
could possibly give you any GOOD advice unless you tell us that. Your
planned system could have some use in certain scenarios...like
bragging allot, as you chat on AOL, but then you could do that on a
PII 333, and just say you have whatever you want and save yourself
1900 dollars.

 

[JK]

amd'rs this whole setup is ridiculous................

Of course it is. 32 bit processors should be low priced budget processors.

I would rather have a p4 2.8

Why would you want that?

with a 22" LCD/CRT 2 gigs ram 200+gig
storage with an all -in- wonder card of some kind (because that's what
would benefit me), than that planned system for that money.

First off---- WHAT THE HECK are you gong to use it for?

Since he is choosing such an expensive video card, it is probably
safe to assume that he is a gamer.

 

[JAD]

Of course it is. 32 bit processors should be low priced budget
processors.

You have to be re incarnated .....Jeremy or whatever your name was
last year....Jason


<<<<<<<sigh>>>>>>>>>>>

look that's a pretty obvious statement, don't you think? natural order
of things, just never fast enough for the minions.....And why would
you care if they are or not... you don't drum any 32 bit processing.

You are in fact bringing us closer to the 'demise' of home building.
TCPA is getting closer as 32 bit fades...if you think that WPA,
software activation is bogus, TCPA will make that seem like a minor
annoyance.

http://www.againsttcpa.com/what-is-tcpa.html

Since he is choosing such an expensive video card, it is probably

safe to assume that he is a gamer.

are all minions clairvoyant?


heh... I can play MOH spearhead on a 7500 all in wonder and 1.6. Do I
see a bird shit on the ground(DX9 eye candy) no, I'm to busy shooting
something to notice it anyway.