11 SATA drives too many for 600W PSU?

[glennerooster]

11 SATA drives in my box now (all are nearly full too 2 of which
are in an external 5-drive enclosure which is being powered by 3 Y
power cables (because the box is outside my tower) and 1meter SATA
cables. Sys boots up with 10 drives, but plugging in the 11th (doesn't
matter which rail) powers up and down immediately (sub second). If i
power up again immediately (within 2secs) after powering down, it stays
on and runs fine. I've been doing this for about 2 months now. I
suspect it's a power problem, i.e. the first power-up gets the drives
spinning, but the PSU detects not enough juice and shuts itself down
(safety measure). Upon 2nd try, the drives are spinning enough that
they don't drain as much power....??

Currently only 10 are running (had to unplug one of my drives because
ANOTHER SATA port on el-cheapo PCI SATA card died!!) so i'm running
safe side for the time being.

System specs>
Enermax Noisetaker 600W .. review and infos here>
http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/other_misc/Enermax_Noisetaker_EG701P/index.htm

AMD64 3000+
A8N-SLI Deluxe
ATI Radeon X800XL
2GB corsair somethings
LG DVD burner
Floppy
11 SATA drives, 5x 400gb Seagate, 4x 500gb Seagate, 1x 500gb Hitachi,
1x750gb Seagate
1x PCI FW800/400 card
2x PCI SATA controller cards (Promise SATA300 TX4 PCI 66MHz +
Dawicontrol DC-something P.O.S. card btw!)

Anybody have any idea what the prob is or how i could test to see what
the prob is?

 

[lee houston]

Anybody have any idea what the prob is or how i could test to see what
the prob is?

Initial spinup draws much more PS current than uptospeed
running.
check documents on drives to enable Staggered Spinup?

for example:

http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor...s_technical/staggerd-spin-detection-pin11.pdf

 

[old man]

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp

 

[Larry]

11 SATA drives in my box now (all are nearly full too 2 of which
are in an external 5-drive enclosure which is being powered by 3 Y
power cables (because the box is outside my tower) and 1meter SATA
cables. Sys boots up with 10 drives, but plugging in the 11th (doesn't
matter which rail) powers up and down immediately (sub second). If i
power up again immediately (within 2secs) after powering down, it
stays on and runs fine. I've been doing this for about 2 months now. I
suspect it's a power problem, i.e. the first power-up gets the drives
spinning, but the PSU detects not enough juice and shuts itself down
(safety measure). Upon 2nd try, the drives are spinning enough that
they don't drain as much power....??
System specs>
Enermax Noisetaker 600W .. review and infos here>

AMD64 3000+
ATI Radeon X800XL
11 SATA drives, 5x 400gb Seagate, 4x 500gb Seagate, 1x 500gb Hitachi,
1x750gb Seagate

Anybody have any idea what the prob is or how i could test to see what
the prob is?

http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/op/spinPower.html

According to Seagate, current draw at startup is ~2.25A.

2.25A x 11 = 25A

http://www.pureoverclock.com/images/review/enermax/noisetaker_600w/specs.jpg

The sticker on the PSU reads 35A max., both +12V rails combined.

At startup, your hard drives alone draw 72% of the maximum rating.

The X800XL likely draws an additional 4-5A. The CPU another 5A.




The answer is simple: either upgrade the PSU or use a few number of hard
drives.


Implementing staggered spin-up may be a third option.

http://www.maxtor.com/_files/maxtor...s_technical/staggerd-spin-detection-pin11.pdf

 

[Rod Speed]

11 SATA drives in my box now (all are nearly full too

Fark, time to replace them with bigger drives so you dont have so many.

2 of which are in an external 5-drive enclosure which is being powered
by 3 Y power cables (because the box is outside my tower) and 1meter
SATA cables. Sys boots up with 10 drives, but plugging in the 11th
(doesn't matter which rail) powers up and down immediately (sub second).
If i power up again immediately (within 2secs) after powering down, it
stays on and runs fine. I've been doing this for about 2 months now. I
suspect it's a power problem, i.e. the first power-up gets the drives
spinning, but the PSU detects not enough juice and shuts itself down
(safety measure). Upon 2nd try, the drives are spinning enough that
they don't drain as much power....??

Very likely.

Currently only 10 are running (had to unplug one of my drives
because ANOTHER SATA port on el-cheapo PCI SATA card
died!!) so i'm running safe side for the time being.

System specs>
Enermax Noisetaker 600W .. review and infos here>
http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/other_misc/Enermax_Noisetaker_EG701P/index.htm

AMD64 3000+
A8N-SLI Deluxe
ATI Radeon X800XL
2GB corsair somethings
LG DVD burner
Floppy
11 SATA drives, 5x 400gb Seagate, 4x 500gb Seagate, 1x 500gb Hitachi,
1x750gb Seagate
1x PCI FW800/400 card
2x PCI SATA controller cards (Promise SATA300 TX4 PCI 66MHz +
Dawicontrol DC-something P.O.S. card btw!)

Anybody have any idea what the prob is

Too many drives.

or how i could test to see what the prob is?

It isnt an easy config to test. It isnt that easy to detect the peak current
drain on the 12v rail which is likely what is shutting the power supply down.

 

[glennerooster]

sorry for cross-posting btw =)

After scouring Seagate's site to no avail, Seagate tech-support told me
that staggered spin-up is automagically enabled on all their SATA
drives, so i guess it's either not working (PSU doesn't support it?) or
i've hit a staggering limit hehe puns are fun

Does anyone know if i could buy a 2nd PSU or some other power source
instead of completely swapping PSU's out? Even if i drop a 1000W PSU in
there, i'm going to hit the limit again in another year...

 

[Rod Speed]

sorry for cross-posting btw =)

I dont mind at all myself.

After scouring Seagate's site to no avail, Seagate tech-support told
me that staggered spin-up is automagically enabled on all their SATA
drives, so i guess it's either not working (PSU doesn't support it?)
or i've hit a staggering limit hehe puns are fun

Yep, you've staggered off into the weeds |-)

Does anyone know if i could buy a 2nd PSU or some other
power source instead of completely swapping PSU's out?

Yes, you can certainly have more than one.

Even if i drop a 1000W PSU in there, i'm
going to hit the limit again in another year...

Yeah, probably the best way to go.

 

[Paul]

11 SATA drives in my box now (all are nearly full too 2 of which
are in an external 5-drive enclosure which is being powered by 3 Y
power cables (because the box is outside my tower) and 1meter SATA
cables. Sys boots up with 10 drives, but plugging in the 11th (doesn't
matter which rail) powers up and down immediately (sub second). If i
power up again immediately (within 2secs) after powering down, it stays
on and runs fine. I've been doing this for about 2 months now. I
suspect it's a power problem, i.e. the first power-up gets the drives
spinning, but the PSU detects not enough juice and shuts itself down
(safety measure). Upon 2nd try, the drives are spinning enough that
they don't drain as much power....??

Currently only 10 are running (had to unplug one of my drives because
ANOTHER SATA port on el-cheapo PCI SATA card died!!) so i'm running
safe side for the time being.

System specs>
Enermax Noisetaker 600W .. review and infos here>
http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/other_misc/Enermax_Noisetaker_EG701P/index.htm

AMD64 3000+
A8N-SLI Deluxe
ATI Radeon X800XL
2GB corsair somethings
LG DVD burner
Floppy
11 SATA drives, 5x 400gb Seagate, 4x 500gb Seagate, 1x 500gb Hitachi,
1x750gb Seagate
1x PCI FW800/400 card
2x PCI SATA controller cards (Promise SATA300 TX4 PCI 66MHz +
Dawicontrol DC-something P.O.S. card btw!)

Anybody have any idea what the prob is or how i could test to see what
the prob is?

Is this the power supply here ?

http://www.ixbt.com/short/2k4-05/1085042653.jpg

12V1 is rated at 18A in that picture. 11 x 2amps spinup, is 22A. And some
drives use more than the 2 amp number. (Most drive manufacturers
give specs on their web site, for the max current to expect. So you
can look up the numbers for all your drives, and get an exact figure.)

There are supplies with higher ratings. You can either search for an
older supply, with single 12V output but plenty of current. Or spend
a slug of money, on something like this. A 60A output rating should
take care of the problem

http://www.pcpower.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S75EPS&view=techspecs
http://www.pcpower.com/products/assets/S75EPS/S75E2.gif
http://www.pcpower.com/prices/

Paul

 

[Lasse Jensen]

11 SATA drives in my box now (all are nearly full too 2 of which
are in an external 5-drive enclosure which is being powered by 3 Y
power cables (because the box is outside my tower) and 1meter SATA
cables.

Why don't you build in another PSU in the box?

 

[Timothy Daniels]

"Lasse Jensen" skrev:

Why don't you build in another PSU in the box?

There are also many makers of enclosures for multiple
external hard drives which have a power supply built into
the enclosure. Do a Google search on
"enclosure external SATA hard drive" and this is just the
first that pops up (scroll down to the multiple drive boxes):
http://www.cooldrives.com/usb20cdrwdvd.html

*TimDaniels*

 

[kony]

sorry for cross-posting btw =)

After scouring Seagate's site to no avail, Seagate tech-support told me
that staggered spin-up is automagically enabled on all their SATA
drives, so i guess it's either not working (PSU doesn't support it?) or
i've hit a staggering limit hehe puns are fun

Does anyone know if i could buy a 2nd PSU or some other power source
instead of completely swapping PSU's out? Even if i drop a 1000W PSU in
there, i'm going to hit the limit again in another year...

Yes, you can use a 2nd PSU. You might even, instead,
consider moving some of these drives to a fileserver, or
two, one with a lower power CPU would use less power (from
12V rail, or even no power from 12V rail if a little older
system platform) and still be sufficient for Gigabit LAN
connection to the fileservers.

 

[kony]

"Lasse Jensen" skrev:


There are also many makers of enclosures for multiple
external hard drives which have a power supply built into
the enclosure. Do a Google search on
"enclosure external SATA hard drive" and this is just the
first that pops up (scroll down to the multiple drive boxes):
http://www.cooldrives.com/usb20cdrwdvd.html

*TimDaniels*

WOW, you hit the motherload of enclosures!

Any idea which single or multiple product(s) have the best #
bays /$, since OP has 11 drives to fit?

 

[glennerooster]

beautiful collection! Too bad they're only in the States Thats
actually why i ended up buying a made-for-internal-enclosures 5-SATA
drive-bay enclosure and putting it on the ground behind my box. I've
also thought about buying a 2nd case, but no way i'd have room for
that, i'm already pushing the limit on available space in my teeny room
as it is. If i could strap a 12V power supply (anything that has 4-pin
power plugs) on top of that and power it up somehow???

I also don't think just plugging in a regular 2nd PSU will work because
they need to be powered on via the motherboard jumper/switch (however
you technically write that), so i'd have to somehow wire that into my
system so it turned both PSUs "on" ? Or is there some kind of faker
technique for that?

and FYI of the 11 drives, 9 fit into my current tower, the CM Stacker
STC-01 - review here: http://www.systemcooling.com/cm_stacker-01.html
and actually i could put 4 drives into each of the 3 bays, but then
theres literally no spacing between drives and that scares me a little
bit - what good are 12 drives in a case if they're all melting each
other.

but wait... i just found out, after reading around a bit (thanks Newegg
customers!) that this case supports 2 PSUs!! haha ok problem is solved,
i guess this case was designed for sick freaks like me!! bwahahaha!!!

 

[Rod Speed]

beautiful collection! Too bad they're only in the States
Thats actually why i ended up buying a made-for-internal-
enclosures 5-SATA drive-bay enclosure and putting it on
the ground behind my box. I've also thought about buying
a 2nd case, but no way i'd have room for that, i'm already
pushing the limit on available space in my teeny room as it is.

Isnt there room where the porn is recorded ?

If i could strap a 12V power supply (anything that has 4-pin
power plugs) on top of that and power it up somehow???

You can certainly do that with an ATX supply.

I also don't think just plugging in a regular 2nd PSU will work

It'll work fine.

because they need to be powered on via the motherboard
jumper/switch (however you technically write that), so i'd
have to somehow wire that into my system so it turned both
PSUs "on" ? Or is there some kind of faker technique for that?

Yes there is. Quite trivial to implement.

and FYI of the 11 drives, 9 fit into my current tower, the CM Stacker
STC-01 - review here: http://www.systemcooling.com/cm_stacker-01.html
and actually i could put 4 drives into each of the 3 bays, but then
theres literally no spacing between drives and that scares me a little
bit - what good are 12 drives in a case if they're all melting each other.

but wait... i just found out, after reading around a bit (thanks Newegg
customers!) that this case supports 2 PSUs!! haha ok problem
is solved, i guess this case was designed for sick freaks like me!!

Yeah, I've reported you to the RSPCPPHDBPFW, you'll be soorree....

bwahahaha!!!

This is no laughing matter.

 

[glennerooster]

Yes there is. Quite trivial to implement.

ok, thanks found the trick... just ground pin 14 using a paperclip (or
more permanent solution)
http://www.speedy3d.com/articles/case_mod_p3/01.shtml
http://mp3car.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=953314&postcount=29
http://www.bluemax.net/techtips/ATXPowerSupplyWiring/ATXPowerSupplyWiring.htm



haha all the pr0n, i wish!! About half is is time-lapse source images
(per project between 1,000 and 150,000 images @ 1024x768 - 2592x1920
resolution) and the rendered movies (HuffyUV lossless codec @ original
resolution i.e. per project 1-300gb)

If you wanna see some of my time-lapse work check out www.glenneroo.org

Another 1/4 are images for everything and nothing, mostly in RAW format
@ 20MB per pic + converted versions @ 5mb x however many versions i
make of an image (up to 10) so per day i shoot, that's about 5gb of
data and i shoot at LEAST once a week if not 5 times, like next week's
8 days of fire juggler photography + 8 days of time-lapse from
different locations in Switzerland

If you wanna see some of my images check out www.glenneroo.com and
www.glenneroo.net

The last 1/4 is video and photo footage from our silly greenscreen /
bluebox sessions involving jugglers, dancers, breakers and whoever else
we could find off the street and of which a lot of is shot in HD @
1440x1080 not to mention the tens of thousands of 10MP images which
have been keyed and converted to TIF format .. 10MP images in TIFF is
hard on the disk space =)

ehm, sorry there's only a few bluescreen clips on www.youtube.com
under 'glenneroo' maybe i'll finally get to finishing keying that
project so i can save some space

Anyways, im out of space and ready for another drive... so i need to do
something QUICK! 2nd PSU is apparently the best way to go here...

thanks again everyone

 

[glennerooster]

just a follow-up...

dropped in a 2nd PSU (420W) in my case (which thankfully supported 2
PSUs natively without any hacking). Grounded pin 14 with a paper-clip
(http://www.speedy3d.com/articles/case_mod_p3/01.shtml) so it's always
running now (i never turn my box off anyways) maybe someday i'll get
around to doing one of the more "proper" solutions i.e. wiring it to my
other PSU so that the power button controls both PSUs.

5-bay SATA external enclosure is on the ground behind my case lost
under a pile of cables. 1m SATA + power cables are coming out of a PCI
slot in my case... someday i'll post a picture of the mess, it's
actually quite scary looking

Thanks to Murphy though, port #2 died on my Dawicontrol SATA card (4
port PCI card @ 70 euro = piece of crap) but the other similar (price +
stats) Promise card (Promise SATA300 TX4) has been working fine for ~3
years now. Not even back to "normal" operations yet and again out of
space, ordered a 8-port HighPoint SATA card (HighPoint RocketRAID 2320,
PCIe x4) along with 3x 500gb drives which i'll put into RAID-5 and copy
the data from the other 500gb drives over and add them one at a time
(in live expand mode which apparently takes a couple days). That'll
fill up the 5-bay enclosure, will have to order another one i guess and
stack them and glue them together... *sigh*