XP Destroying MBR on re-install

[Guest]

Hi,

Quite a complex one this one - please excuse.

Problem 1.
When booting up XP stalls. It will boot via "safe mode" and "safe mode with
networking" but VGA mode totally dies. Has happened 3 times in the last
month. I am not aware of what the problem is that causes this. I've done a
full virus scan and found no problems.

Problem 2.
To resolve problem 1 it tried to perform a fresh install (repair install
wouldn't stick) on the hard drive. The files are copied but when the machine
reboots the MBR is totally screwed and the machine cannot now boot at all.
The disk is TOTALLY RUINED as a bootable disk. This is the third time this
has happened.

To be quite clear, before performing the new install, the machine booted fine.

Please - save me from buying any more disks- or moving to Apple!

Regards,

Steve.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

See below.

Hi,

Quite a complex one this one - please excuse.

Problem 1.
When booting up XP stalls. It will boot via "safe mode" and "safe mode
with
networking" but VGA mode totally dies. Has happened 3 times in the last
month. I am not aware of what the problem is that causes this. I've done a
full virus scan and found no problems.

This is probably a hardware problem: The video adapter no longer
responds the way it is supposed to, thus forcing Windows to drop
down to a generic VGA mode. You could borrow an adapter from
a retired machine to prove this point.

Problem 2.
To resolve problem 1 it tried to perform a fresh install (repair install
wouldn't stick) on the hard drive. The files are copied but when the
machine
reboots the MBR is totally screwed and the machine cannot now boot at all.
The disk is TOTALLY RUINED as a bootable disk. This is the third time this
has happened.

- What makes you think that the Master Boot Record is ruined?
- What exactly are the messages you see at boot time?
- What happens when you boot the machine with a WinXP boot floppy disk?

To be quite clear, before performing the new install, the machine booted
fine.

Please - save me from buying any more disks- or moving to Apple!

- What makes you think a new disk is required?
- Why should an Apple present you with fewer problems when you have a flawed
disk?

 

[Harry Ohrn]

While it is not unusual for people to think that software is the cause of
problems like this it is important to rule out the possibility that the
issue is hardware related. I tend to think it could be hardware given that
the "Repair Install wouldn't stick" .... whatever that means .... I infer
that you mean the Repair Install didn't fix the problem. What do you mean by
"TOTALLY RUINED " as a bootable disk? Do you mean that Windows no longer
boots or that the hard drive is damaged? The MBR can easily be repaired
using the recovery console. See the instructions here

1)Boot from the windows XP CD,
2)press the "R" key in the setup in order to start the Recovery Console.
3)Select your Windows XP installation from the list, and enter the
administrator password (just press the Enter Key to leave blank if you have
Windows XP Home version or you have no administrator password set in XP Pro)
4)Enter the command: "FIXMBR" (without the quotes) at the input prompt and
confirm the next question with a "Y" (without the quotes).
5)Remove the XP CD and type EXIT to restart the computer.

You might want to take the computer to a reputable repair service if you
have damaged hardware.

 

[Guest]

Hey Pegasus,

Thanks for the comments on the screen, alas the video card is brand new.

When the MBR is ruined I mean that it will not boot. I have tried FIXMBR and
a new boot record is written but the machine is still not bootable despite
being fully bootable 30 minutes earlier.

I don'te get any messages at boot time, but the machine will not boot from
the disk and goes back to re-intialise memory checks etc. To all intents and
purposes, the machine seems to think it doesn't have a bootable HDD inside.

I don't boot the machine with an XP floppy disk.

Any further ideas?

 

[Guest]

Thanks Harry,

The reason I think it's software related is quite simply, the machine booted
perfectly apart from the previously identified sticking problem and then 30
minutes later after I've tried to reinstall XP it won't. The only common
factor is the XP installation.

Although if you have any suggestions on how to resolve I'd be happy to hear
them..

Regards,

While it is not unusual for people to think that software is the cause of
problems like this it is important to rule out the possibility that the
issue is hardware related. I tend to think it could be hardware given that
the "Repair Install wouldn't stick" .... whatever that means .... I infer
that you mean the Repair Install didn't fix the problem. What do you mean by
"TOTALLY RUINED " as a bootable disk? Do you mean that Windows no longer
boots or that the hard drive is damaged? The MBR can easily be repaired
using the recovery console. See the instructions here

1)Boot from the windows XP CD,
2)press the "R" key in the setup in order to start the Recovery Console.
3)Select your Windows XP installation from the list, and enter the
administrator password (just press the Enter Key to leave blank if you have
Windows XP Home version or you have no administrator password set in XP Pro)
4)Enter the command: "FIXMBR" (without the quotes) at the input prompt and
confirm the next question with a "Y" (without the quotes).
5)Remove the XP CD and type EXIT to restart the computer.

You might want to take the computer to a reputable repair service if you
have damaged hardware.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp

Hi,

Quite a complex one this one - please excuse.

Problem 1.
When booting up XP stalls. It will boot via "safe mode" and "safe mode
with
networking" but VGA mode totally dies. Has happened 3 times in the last
month. I am not aware of what the problem is that causes this. I've done a
full virus scan and found no problems.

Problem 2.
To resolve problem 1 it tried to perform a fresh install (repair install
wouldn't stick) on the hard drive. The files are copied but when the
machine
reboots the MBR is totally screwed and the machine cannot now boot at all.
The disk is TOTALLY RUINED as a bootable disk. This is the third time this
has happened.

To be quite clear, before performing the new install, the machine booted
fine.

Please - save me from buying any more disks- or moving to Apple!

Regards,

Steve.

 

[Guest]

Harry forgot to mention - yes I've tried the recovery console and FIXMBR -
this has no affect!

While it is not unusual for people to think that software is the cause of
problems like this it is important to rule out the possibility that the
issue is hardware related. I tend to think it could be hardware given that
the "Repair Install wouldn't stick" .... whatever that means .... I infer
that you mean the Repair Install didn't fix the problem. What do you mean by
"TOTALLY RUINED " as a bootable disk? Do you mean that Windows no longer
boots or that the hard drive is damaged? The MBR can easily be repaired
using the recovery console. See the instructions here

1)Boot from the windows XP CD,
2)press the "R" key in the setup in order to start the Recovery Console.
3)Select your Windows XP installation from the list, and enter the
administrator password (just press the Enter Key to leave blank if you have
Windows XP Home version or you have no administrator password set in XP Pro)
4)Enter the command: "FIXMBR" (without the quotes) at the input prompt and
confirm the next question with a "Y" (without the quotes).
5)Remove the XP CD and type EXIT to restart the computer.

You might want to take the computer to a reputable repair service if you
have damaged hardware.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp

Hi,

Quite a complex one this one - please excuse.

Problem 1.
When booting up XP stalls. It will boot via "safe mode" and "safe mode
with
networking" but VGA mode totally dies. Has happened 3 times in the last
month. I am not aware of what the problem is that causes this. I've done a
full virus scan and found no problems.

Problem 2.
To resolve problem 1 it tried to perform a fresh install (repair install
wouldn't stick) on the hard drive. The files are copied but when the
machine
reboots the MBR is totally screwed and the machine cannot now boot at all.
The disk is TOTALLY RUINED as a bootable disk. This is the third time this
has happened.

To be quite clear, before performing the new install, the machine booted
fine.

Please - save me from buying any more disks- or moving to Apple!

Regards,

Steve.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

I realise that you do not boot the machine with a floppy
boot disk but I recommend that you try. It would neatly
step around any MBR issues.

 

[Harry Ohrn]

I would still try to rule out hardware as the source of the problem. The
fact that hardware is new or there is only 30 minutes apart from working to
not working doesn't mean the problem isn't hardware. Electronic devices can
fail quickly and without warning. The reason I'm mentioning ruling out
hardware is that you can fight with software forever if your hardware isn't
functioning.

Try booting a bootable CD like UBCD http://www.ubcd4win.com/ and see if you
can run it successfully. That should at least help you to ascertain that the
problem isn't the video card or motherboard. If the problem persists when
booting UDCD then you need to look at hardware.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp

Thanks Harry,

The reason I think it's software related is quite simply, the machine
booted
perfectly apart from the previously identified sticking problem and then
30
minutes later after I've tried to reinstall XP it won't. The only common
factor is the XP installation.

Although if you have any suggestions on how to resolve I'd be happy to
hear
them..

Regards,

While it is not unusual for people to think that software is the cause of
problems like this it is important to rule out the possibility that the
issue is hardware related. I tend to think it could be hardware given
that
the "Repair Install wouldn't stick" .... whatever that means .... I infer
that you mean the Repair Install didn't fix the problem. What do you mean
by
"TOTALLY RUINED " as a bootable disk? Do you mean that Windows no longer
boots or that the hard drive is damaged? The MBR can easily be repaired
using the recovery console. See the instructions here

1)Boot from the windows XP CD,
2)press the "R" key in the setup in order to start the Recovery Console.
3)Select your Windows XP installation from the list, and enter the
administrator password (just press the Enter Key to leave blank if you
have
Windows XP Home version or you have no administrator password set in XP
Pro)
4)Enter the command: "FIXMBR" (without the quotes) at the input prompt
and
confirm the next question with a "Y" (without the quotes).
5)Remove the XP CD and type EXIT to restart the computer.

You might want to take the computer to a reputable repair service if you
have damaged hardware.

--


Harry Ohrn MS MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp

Hi,

Quite a complex one this one - please excuse.

Problem 1.
When booting up XP stalls. It will boot via "safe mode" and "safe mode
with
networking" but VGA mode totally dies. Has happened 3 times in the last
month. I am not aware of what the problem is that causes this. I've
done a
full virus scan and found no problems.

Problem 2.
To resolve problem 1 it tried to perform a fresh install (repair
install
wouldn't stick) on the hard drive. The files are copied but when the
machine
reboots the MBR is totally screwed and the machine cannot now boot at
all.
The disk is TOTALLY RUINED as a bootable disk. This is the third time
this
has happened.

To be quite clear, before performing the new install, the machine
booted
fine.

Please - save me from buying any more disks- or moving to Apple!

Regards,

Steve.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:00:01 -0700, Steve Wright

At the risk of jumping in to an old thread...

When the MBR is ruined I mean that it will not boot. I have tried FIXMBR and
a new boot record is written but the machine is still not bootable despite
being fully bootable 30 minutes earlier.

I don'te get any messages at boot time, but the machine will not boot from
the disk and goes back to re-intialise memory checks etc. To all intents and
purposes, the machine seems to think it doesn't have a bootable HDD inside.

OK. First thing is to see whether the PC is trying to boot off the
physical HD, and to do that, you need to get into the CMOS setup
(which adjusts the "hardware's software", i.e. that which is built-in
and independent of any OS).

This is usually done by pressing certain keys straight after power up:
- F2 (most recent PCs)
- Del (most PCs)
- F1 (some IBM)
- F10 (some Compaq)
- Ctl+Alt+Esc (a few PCs)
- Ctl+Alt+S (a few PCs)

The initial screen may tell you what keys to press. Once there,
carefully look around to see if your HD is detected correctly, if it
is set as a boot device, and whether there are other devices set to
boot before it. If they are, then make sure there are no disks left
in these devices, so they will be bypassed.


That would cause the BIOS to boot the HD, which involves loading the
very first sector from the HD into RAM and running code within it.

This is the MBR (Master Boot Record) code, and it is expected to look
for a partition table within the same sector.

If a partition (an area of disk space set aside for an OS) is set as
"Active" then the first sector of that partition is loaded into RAM
and executed as the PBR (Partition Boot Record).

If no partition is active, the process stops there, tho usually with
an error message rather than a spontaneous reboot.

If there's an active Windows partition with XP installed, the PBR code
in it is expected to load \NTLDR from the same volume, which will then
process \BOOT.INI in the same volume to determine what to do next.

If you are pressing the F8 key at this moment, you should see a boot
menu pop up. If you can get that far, then you know that CMOS Setup,
MBR, partition table and PBR are all OK.

We need to know if you can get that far (e.g. maybe NTLDR loads
something that crashes and reboots the PC) or not.

------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

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