Working with all three platforms ...

[Alex]

Hi All,

This is just a general collection of thoughts I thought I'd share.
I've been a computer enthusiast all my life, and I've worked with about
every popular platform from the TRS-80s and Commodores of days past,
MS-DOS, Unix, Linux, Mac, Windows, you name it. Over the years I've
most definitely had my advocacies of which OS I prefer, but now that I
use all three platforms every day I thought I'd post some general
comments on my experiences and thoughts.

Just some background... I moved from my Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3
(which I used for a number of years) to the Microsoft world around 1990
when I bought my first 8088 XT running MS-DOS 3.3, and from there I
evolved up the MS-DOS ladder then to Windows around 1992 with Windows
3.0 and on. In college during the late 90's I was introduced to Unix
then Linux, and I fell in love with the power of Bash and other shells.
After working with Unix and Linux for a number of years in college,
around 1999 I moved all my personal computers to Linux leaving Windows
only to be used at work. I had zero regrets, and Linux worked
perfectly for 100% of my needs. At work however, managing several MS
SQL databases, using Crystal Reports, and running many Windows-only
apps, Windows was my only option.

My use of Linux at home continued for about 5 years until I bought a
used PowerMac G4 from a friend, and my love for OSX began. I used Macs
in high school during the 80's and early 90's, but I never cared much
for them since my thinking was a powerful command line meant a powerful
OS. Mac's Pre-OSX didn't have this, so I never gave them a second look
until OSX with Unix at its core. In 2004 at home I moved all my day to
day stuff to OSX while still running my file server, web server, and
other server-apps on Linux. At work however I continued to use Windows
for everything, though I keep a Linux box on hand for automated
scripts. I'm still much better at writing complex scripts in Shell
Script then whatever scripting languages Windows offers.

So now it's 2006, and looking back at my 20 years of working with
computers I've seen my life interweaved in all three platforms. I've
fought on the Advocacy fronts of all three at some point, but in hind
sight I see how each platform has its power and weaknesses. I love the
flexibility of Linux, the look and feel plus the ease of use of OSX,
and the application base of Windows. For me I wish I could cherry pick
the features of all three platforms to form that perfect OS, but
that'll never be possible.

As of right now if I had to pick only one OS to use leaving the other
two behind, it'd be Mac OSX hands down, but ask me this again in 6
months to a year and I might answer differently. I think folks needs
to pick the OS that fits their needs, and at this point OSX does this
for me... but as I said, give me time and this might change as my
needs change.

Take care, and thanks for your time ...

Sam

 

[Roy Schestowitz]

__/ [ Alex ] on Thursday 09 March 2006 15:35 \__

Hi All,

This is just a general collection of thoughts I thought I'd share.
I've been a computer enthusiast all my life, and I've worked with about
every popular platform from the TRS-80s and Commodores of days past,
MS-DOS, Unix, Linux, Mac, Windows, you name it. Over the years I've
most definitely had my advocacies of which OS I prefer, but now that I
use all three platforms every day I thought I'd post some general
comments on my experiences and thoughts.

Just some background... I moved from my Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3
(which I used for a number of years) to the Microsoft world around 1990
when I bought my first 8088 XT running MS-DOS 3.3, and from there I
evolved up the MS-DOS ladder then to Windows around 1992 with Windows
3.0 and on. In college during the late 90's I was introduced to Unix
then Linux, and I fell in love with the power of Bash and other shells.
After working with Unix and Linux for a number of years in college,
around 1999 I moved all my personal computers to Linux leaving Windows
only to be used at work. I had zero regrets, and Linux worked
perfectly for 100% of my needs. At work however, managing several MS
SQL databases, using Crystal Reports, and running many Windows-only
apps, Windows was my only option.

My use of Linux at home continued for about 5 years until I bought a
used PowerMac G4 from a friend, and my love for OSX began. I used Macs
in high school during the 80's and early 90's, but I never cared much
for them since my thinking was a powerful command line meant a powerful
OS. Mac's Pre-OSX didn't have this, so I never gave them a second look
until OSX with Unix at its core. In 2004 at home I moved all my day to
day stuff to OSX while still running my file server, web server, and
other server-apps on Linux. At work however I continued to use Windows
for everything, though I keep a Linux box on hand for automated
scripts. I'm still much better at writing complex scripts in Shell
Script then whatever scripting languages Windows offers.

So now it's 2006, and looking back at my 20 years of working with
computers I've seen my life interweaved in all three platforms. I've
fought on the Advocacy fronts of all three at some point, but in hind
sight I see how each platform has its power and weaknesses. I love the
flexibility of Linux, the look and feel plus the ease of use of OSX,
and the application base of Windows. For me I wish I could cherry pick
the features of all three platforms to form that perfect OS, but
that'll never be possible.

As of right now if I had to pick only one OS to use leaving the other
two behind, it'd be Mac OSX hands down, but ask me this again in 6
months to a year and I might answer differently. I think folks needs
to pick the OS that fits their needs, and at this point OSX does this
for me... but as I said, give me time and this might change as my
needs change.

Take care, and thanks for your time ...

Sam

^^^

Sam?!?! Isn't your name "Alex"?

X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1;
en-US; rv:1.8.0.1) Gecko/20060111

Will give the benefit of the doubt and assume you post from work. Still
smells somewhat fishy.

Best wishes nonetheless! You made many valid points.

 

[philo]

Hi All,

This is just a general collection of thoughts I thought I'd share.
I've been a computer enthusiast all my life, and I've worked with about
every popular platform from the TRS-80s and Commodores of days past,
MS-DOS, Unix, Linux, Mac, Windows, you name it. Over the years I've
most definitely had my advocacies of which OS I prefer, but now that I
use all three platforms every day I thought I'd post some general
comments on my experiences and thoughts.

<snip>

Though I did work with FORTRAN a bit back in the 60's
I totally got out of computers until about 1999 when I started with win95...
then went backwards to try to learn everything I missed.
From win95 I went back to win3x and dos...worked with os/2 also.
then moved forward from there .
Maybe 6 months after I got into computers I decided to give Linux a try...
and after a lot of work...managed to get RH5.2 up and running.

It was not easy...but wow...did I ever learn a lot!\

I've been dual booting windows and linux ever since...

and have not given up on OS/2 as I still use ECS ocasionally

 

[Grok]

Responses are inline:

Alex wrote:
| Hi All,
|
| This is just a general collection of thoughts I thought I'd share.


Why? Oh .. let me guess .. you are going to say some other OS is better than
Windows ..


| I've been a computer enthusiast all my life, and I've worked with about
| every popular platform from the TRS-80s and Commodores of days past,
| MS-DOS, Unix, Linux, Mac, Windows, you name it.


Uh huh, go on ..


|Over the years I've
| most definitely had my advocacies of which OS I prefer, but now that I
| use all three platforms every day I thought I'd post some general
| comments on my experiences and thoughts.


I just bet you do ..


| Just some background... I moved from my Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 3
| (which I used for a number of years) to the Microsoft world around 1990
| when I bought my first 8088 XT running MS-DOS 3.3, and from there I
| evolved up the MS-DOS ladder then to Windows around 1992 with Windows
| 3.0 and on. In college during the late 90's I was introduced to Unix
| then Linux, and I fell in love with the power of Bash and other shells.


We're getting there ..


| After working with Unix and Linux for a number of years in college,
| around 1999 I moved all my personal computers to Linux leaving Windows
| only to be used at work. I had zero regrets, and Linux worked
| perfectly for 100% of my needs.


No kidding. You pieces are almost all in place now ..


|At work however, managing several MS
| SQL databases, using Crystal Reports, and running many Windows-only
| apps, Windows was my only option.


Sure.


| My use of Linux at home continued for about 5 years until I bought a
| used PowerMac G4 from a friend, and my love for OSX began. I used Macs
| in high school during the 80's and early 90's, but I never cared much
| for them since my thinking was a powerful command line meant a powerful
| OS. Mac's Pre-OSX didn't have this, so I never gave them a second look
| until OSX with Unix at its core. In 2004 at home I moved all my day to
| day stuff to OSX while still running my file server, web server, and
| other server-apps on Linux. At work however I continued to use Windows
| for everything, though I keep a Linux box on hand for automated
| scripts.

|I'm still much better at writing complex scripts in Shell
| Script then whatever scripting languages Windows offers.


Oh, of course you'd say that.


| So now it's 2006,


Wow, you know the year ..


|and looking back at my 20 years of working with
| computers I've seen my life interweaved in all three platforms. I've
| fought on the Advocacy fronts of all three at some point, but in hind
| sight I see how each platform has its power and weaknesses. I love the
| flexibility of Linux, the look and feel plus the ease of use of OSX,
| and the application base of Windows. For me I wish I could cherry pick
| the features of all three platforms to form that perfect OS, but
| that'll never be possible.


No? Wait for Vista then ..


| As of right now if I had to pick only one OS to use leaving the other
| two behind,


Oh, is this it !?


| it'd be Mac OSX hands down,


Yup, there it is just as predicted!
Is Apple paying you for this, or are you posting on your break?


|but ask me this again in 6
| months to a year and I might answer differently.


Yes, because Vista will be out and the Apple crowd will be installing it in
droves on their MacIntels.


| I think folks needs
| to pick the OS that fits their needs, and at this point OSX does this
| for me... but as I said, give me time and this might change as my
| needs change.
|
| Take care, and thanks for your time ...


Oh gee, you're such a polite troll / payed shrill. Follow-ups to:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy - where they belong.


| Sam

 

[Leythos]

As of right now if I had to pick only one OS to use leaving the other
two behind, it'd be Mac OSX hands down, but ask me this again in 6
months to a year and I might answer differently. I think folks needs
to pick the OS that fits their needs, and at this point OSX does this
for me... but as I said, give me time and this might change as my
needs change.

I think the MAC is a great solution for people that don't do
programming, don't need to manipulate their hardware/systems, don't need
to have access to the latest business applications, and don't play
computer games. The MAC does not make a reasonable server platform,
doesn't make a good business network system.

Linux is great for tinkerers, technical types, people that want to do
things on their own, people that can't afford a licensed OS cost and
don't have to work with business apps and don't want to play the latest
online games. Linux is also good for people that want to program and get
into the hardware, web sites, online services, network system, etc...
Linux makes a good firewall platform.

Windows is for the user that does or does not tinker, does or does not
want to play games, does or does not want to interact with business
apps, does or does not want to program.... Depending on the version, it
makes a great server, web service platform, business network system...
Windows suffers from legacy compatibility issues that result in many
security flaws and exploits, it does not make a good firewall platform.

 

[Tim Crowley]

I think the MAC is a great solution for people that don't do
programming,

What the hell is the MAC?

 

[Leythos]

What the hell is the MAC?

It's a great solution for people like you

 

[OldCSMAer]

It's a great solution for people like you

I can't speak to Linux, because i only dabble around a bit with Ubuntu
for PPC, but I support Macs and PCs here at work.

I don't think Windows is bad at all, as long as you don't let it near
the internet. We use the three PCs here (all are brand new Gateways)
for standalone chores and they are fine. The interface isn't as easy as
Mac (more mouse clicks to do the same thing), but they are OK. There
sure are a lot more apps for Windows (although many of them really,
really suck.)

The Macs are much safer for network duty, IMO. I have Panther Server
running as a *software* router/firewall, serving Macs and PCs (the PCs
are locked out of the internet, they only can see the server and the
printers.) No pop-ups, no adware, no virus problems, the Macs just go
out there and do the job.

OS stability. The Windows machines require a few more reboots (I
think), but I really haven't logged them. They are pretty close with XP
second edition.

Cost. I like to put more memory in PC than a comparable Mac, because
(IMO) Mac memory management beats Windows in the 512 meg-1 gig RAM area.
I have to buy more utility software for Windows for Mac, too. That
brings the cost of our PCs almost up the costs of the Mac. The Macs
last longer here (4-5 years per machine). We like to change the PCs at
the 2-3 year interval, because Windows responds so much better to a
hardware upgrade. Interesting note: I have 450 mhz Blue and White G3
tower here. It is now running Tiger. With each release of the OS,
thing actually runs FASTER than before.

 

[Leythos]

I can't speak to Linux, because i only dabble around a bit with Ubuntu
for PPC, but I support Macs and PCs here at work.

I don't think Windows is bad at all, as long as you don't let it near
the internet. We use the three PCs here (all are brand new Gateways)
for standalone chores and they are fine. The interface isn't as easy as
Mac (more mouse clicks to do the same thing), but they are OK. There
sure are a lot more apps for Windows (although many of them really,
really suck.)

The Macs are much safer for network duty, IMO. I have Panther Server
running as a *software* router/firewall, serving Macs and PCs (the PCs
are locked out of the internet, they only can see the server and the
printers.) No pop-ups, no adware, no virus problems, the Macs just go
out there and do the job.

OS stability. The Windows machines require a few more reboots (I
think), but I really haven't logged them. They are pretty close with XP
second edition.

Cost. I like to put more memory in PC than a comparable Mac, because
(IMO) Mac memory management beats Windows in the 512 meg-1 gig RAM area.
I have to buy more utility software for Windows for Mac, too. That
brings the cost of our PCs almost up the costs of the Mac. The Macs
last longer here (4-5 years per machine). We like to change the PCs at
the 2-3 year interval, because Windows responds so much better to a
hardware upgrade. Interesting note: I have 450 mhz Blue and White G3
tower here. It is now running Tiger. With each release of the OS,
thing actually runs FASTER than before.

I agree with most of what you've said here, except that we allow our
clients Windows systems to access the internet without any of the issues
you described above - we also install a quality firewall appliance and
it handles those issues.

With many system, just flattening them and reinstalling will give you
back performance.

There are many cases where a MAC is a very good solution and the same
for a Win based solution. I'm starting to find more places for Linux,
but it's a lot harder to place a Linux workstation in a business that
has to interface with Windows based clients.

 

[OldCSMAer]

With many system, just flattening them and reinstalling will give you
back performance.

Very true. I reformat and restore the PCs every 6 months or as needed,
and it really prevents registry problems.

 

[Alex]

Hi Leythos,

I agree with your statements to a point ... Mac's don't have the
application support that Windows has (as I noted in my original post),
but for someone who works for a company or group who uses Macs, OSX has
a great development platform using XCode. The full version is
available for free, and being Obj-C has evolved without too much change
over the years, it's a great platform to program with. However it's
programming for Macs, so back again to my point -- you use the platform
that suits you. I know Microsoft has recently released some components
of Visual Studio for free, but to get the full development package to
do Visual Basic, C#, VC, etc, it's quite costly. I'm no expert
programming in Obj-C or Microsoft's languages, but I've used both
enough to know I personally do prefer Mac's programming environment
better. But as always, to each his own on this.

As for games, this is no different then some games being available on
the PS2 while others for XBox... Folks who choose Mac or Linux over
Windows go into it knowing they can't run some games. Again, choose
the system that suits your needs - if someone is a gamer and wants to
run a wide variety of games, Windows is the choice. I don't do games,
so for me this isn't a factor.

Linux has its advantages, and though I love the Penguin I still don't
think Linux is for everyone. I do think Linux is perfect for the
server, much more then Windows in most cases (web, DB, proxy/firewall,
etc), but on the desktop I'm still not sure. I love it, and I used it
for MANY years, but it's not as intuitive as OSX or Windows for most
tasks.

Windows is a good OS when it wants to be. I run Windows at work and
OSX at home and on my laptop, and much more often I'm in Windows
wishing I had some feature OSX has then vice versa. But again, to each
his own. If you've never tasted the grass on the other side of the
fence, you don't know what you're missing ... for folks who've never
used OSX for any length of time, they'd not know the little perks OSX
has.

But as I keep stating, each user needs to evaluate their needs and
choose the platform that suits them.

Thanks for the post..

Sam

 

[Leythos]

Hi Leythos,

I agree with your statements to a point ... Mac's don't have the
application support that Windows has (as I noted in my original post),
but for someone who works for a company or group who uses Macs, OSX has
a great development platform using XCode. The full version is
available for free, and being Obj-C has evolved without too much change
over the years, it's a great platform to program with. However it's
programming for Macs, so back again to my point -- you use the platform
that suits you. I know Microsoft has recently released some components
of Visual Studio for free, but to get the full development package to
do Visual Basic, C#, VC, etc, it's quite costly. I'm no expert
programming in Obj-C or Microsoft's languages, but I've used both
enough to know I personally do prefer Mac's programming environment
better. But as always, to each his own on this.

As for games, this is no different then some games being available on
the PS2 while others for XBox... Folks who choose Mac or Linux over
Windows go into it knowing they can't run some games. Again, choose
the system that suits your needs - if someone is a gamer and wants to
run a wide variety of games, Windows is the choice. I don't do games,
so for me this isn't a factor.

Linux has its advantages, and though I love the Penguin I still don't
think Linux is for everyone. I do think Linux is perfect for the
server, much more then Windows in most cases (web, DB, proxy/firewall,
etc), but on the desktop I'm still not sure. I love it, and I used it
for MANY years, but it's not as intuitive as OSX or Windows for most
tasks.

Windows is a good OS when it wants to be. I run Windows at work and
OSX at home and on my laptop, and much more often I'm in Windows
wishing I had some feature OSX has then vice versa. But again, to each
his own. If you've never tasted the grass on the other side of the
fence, you don't know what you're missing ... for folks who've never
used OSX for any length of time, they'd not know the little perks OSX
has.

But as I keep stating, each user needs to evaluate their needs and
choose the platform that suits them.

Thanks for the post..

I agree.

 

[HeyBub]

Hi All,

This is just a general collection of thoughts I thought I'd share.
I've been a computer enthusiast all my life, and I've worked with
about every popular platform from the TRS-80s and Commodores of days
past, MS-DOS, Unix, Linux, Mac, Windows, you name it. Over the years
I've most definitely had my advocacies of which OS I prefer, but now
that I use all three platforms every day I thought I'd post some
general comments on my experiences and thoughts.

[...]


My story is similar to yours, but with a different outcome. Let me start at
the beginning:

There I was, in my mom's Fallopian tubes...

 

[Josh McKee]

[ snip ]

As of right now if I had to pick only one OS to use leaving the other
two behind, it'd be Mac OSX hands down, but ask me this again in 6
months to a year and I might answer differently. I think folks needs
to pick the OS that fits their needs, and at this point OSX does this
for me... but as I said, give me time and this might change as my
needs change.

I'd choose Windows. While OS X is my top pick I use computers to run
applications. Windows offers the widest selection of software while
being reasonably trouble free.

Josh

 

[Josh McKee]

Very true. I reformat and restore the PCs every 6 months or as needed,
and it really prevents registry problems.

Are you serious? Why waste so much time when there are tools which scan
the registry for errors and correct them?

Josh

 

[BearItAll]

Hi Leythos,

I agree with your statements to a point ... Mac's don't have the
application support that Windows has (as I noted in my original post),
but for someone who works for a company or group who uses Macs, OSX has
a great development platform using XCode. The full version is
available for free, and being Obj-C has evolved without too much change
over the years, it's a great platform to program with. However it's
programming for Macs, so back again to my point -- you use the platform
that suits you. I know Microsoft has recently released some components
of Visual Studio for free, but to get the full development package to
do Visual Basic, C#, VC, etc, it's quite costly. I'm no expert
programming in Obj-C or Microsoft's languages, but I've used both
enough to know I personally do prefer Mac's programming environment
better. But as always, to each his own on this.

I was going to go the Mac rout when I last bought a client for home, the
main reason for Mac rather than another Linux was that I was looking for a
way to regain my interest in computers. I have been in this stuff since
1979ish and had really lost interest in most of it. Which isn't good if it
is how you make your living.

Of all the systems I have used and worked on, mostly UNIX, Linux and of
cause MS, I have never sad in front of a Mac.

I had chosen a machine and had the idea of later replacing my Linux server
at home to a Mac server.

Then when I was ready to open my wallet and start buying, every Mac
disapeared from PC World (2 in reasonable distance to me). When I asked
about this in a news group I was told they were in big trouble with sales.

So I abandoned the idea.

Macs are back in PC world so it must have only been a blip in the market
place, maybe they was a new model on its way to the shelves or something.

But while I had been reading up on them, I could fully understand the
Mactypes falling in love with the beast. Put simply it seemed (on paper
anyway) to be a computer that does what a computer is meant to do.

Ok, I'm a programmer so I would have lifted the bonnet and had a poke
around, but for a non-programmers on a Mac there wouldn't be a need to do
that, they could just get on with what they want to do and forget there's
an engine at all.

 

[Leythos]

Are you serious? Why waste so much time when there are tools which scan
the registry for errors and correct them?

And they still don't properly do the job. I wipe/reinstall my systems
about every 12~18 months, and it's done for more than registry issues.
As a network designer and a programmer with a full MSDN subscription, I
want to rid my machine of all the remains of software I've installed and
uninstalled. Your registry cleaner doesn't do that.

 

[Josh McKee]

And they still don't properly do the job.

They work great for ordinary users.

I wipe/reinstall my systems about every 12~18 months, and it's done for more
than registry issues. As a network designer and a programmer with a full
MSDN subscription, I want to rid my machine of all the remains of software
I've installed and uninstalled. Your registry cleaner doesn't do that.

I would say that you're the exception and not the norm.

Josh

 

[Alex]

To defend Leythos, his experience is the same as mine with all the
computer users I support. I'm that 'friend of a friend who works with
computers', so I get calls at least 2-3 times a week with
computer-related problems. I also reinstall Windows about 2-3 times a
month for any given friend to fix whatever problems since it's often
quicker to reinstall then mess with trying to find why IE won't load or
why MS Word gives a crazy error on startup, and so forth. And those
registry fixers, though they've worked before, are maybe 10% success
rate for me.

In my experience there are many factors that can cause a computer to
quit running as it should, including running it on the open Internet
with no firewall, installing everything under the sun, downloading
warez, visiting malware sites, clicking on spam emails, viruses, virus
and spyware scanners (sometimes more harmful then the viruses and
spyware themselves), and many other factors. IMO when the problem is
software and the user doesn't have much data to backup (no more then a
few CD's worth), reinstalling is always a great option to refresh the
system. These issues aren't all isolated to Windows, but I've yet to
do a reinstall on any OS other then Windows other then an OS upgrade
(like OSX Panther to Tiger or Slackware 9 to 10). I always do clean
installs instead of version upgrades, but that's another topic

Granted, for someone who knows what to avoid and how to keep their box
running smooth, that's great -- but that's the exception to the average
computer user. I know folks who run Windows (firewalled) with no
virus/spyware scanners, run Firefox, don't download crap, and watch
where they surf -- and their boxes run great -- but that's the
exception.

My goal isn't to turn this thread into a 'my OS is better then your OS'
by any means, but my experience is that Windows systems used by the
average non-computer savvy user do benefit from being reinstalled a few
times a year. That's the nature of the beast.

Sam Alex

 

[Josh McKee]

To defend Leythos, his experience is the same as mine with all the
computer users I support. I'm that 'friend of a friend who works with
computers', so I get calls at least 2-3 times a week with
computer-related problems. I also reinstall Windows about 2-3 times a
month for any given friend to fix whatever problems since it's often
quicker to reinstall then mess with trying to find why IE won't load or
why MS Word gives a crazy error on startup, and so forth. And those
registry fixers, though they've worked before, are maybe 10% success
rate for me.

In my experience there are many factors that can cause a computer to
quit running as it should, including running it on the open Internet
with no firewall, installing everything under the sun, downloading
warez, visiting malware sites, clicking on spam emails, viruses, virus
and spyware scanners (sometimes more harmful then the viruses and
spyware themselves), and many other factors. IMO when the problem is
software and the user doesn't have much data to backup (no more then a
few CD's worth), reinstalling is always a great option to refresh the
system. These issues aren't all isolated to Windows, but I've yet to
do a reinstall on any OS other then Windows other then an OS upgrade
(like OSX Panther to Tiger or Slackware 9 to 10). I always do clean
installs instead of version upgrades, but that's another topic

Granted, for someone who knows what to avoid and how to keep their box
running smooth, that's great -- but that's the exception to the average
computer user. I know folks who run Windows (firewalled) with no
virus/spyware scanners, run Firefox, don't download crap, and watch
where they surf -- and their boxes run great -- but that's the
exception.

My goal isn't to turn this thread into a 'my OS is better then your OS'
by any means, but my experience is that Windows systems used by the
average non-computer savvy user do benefit from being reinstalled a few
times a year. That's the nature of the beast.

Sam Alex

Sounds like you need to learn a little bit more about Windows. The
friends that I help have working computers when I leave. And I don't
re-install the OS.

Josh