Wise to use HDD as offline storage?

[Ge]

What specs?

ATX specs maybe? Power supply specs maybe?

No matter how thoroughly you know what you're doing fingers slip.

There are situations where this applies more, and there are situations
where this applies less. Just recently, I had an open case on my bench, a
few disks lying on the bench next to it, some connected, some not, and
booted the computer a few times, each time with a different disk
configuration. I connected and disconnected the disks while the ATX power
supply was in standby mode. I wasn't meddling inside the case where I could
have accidentally unplugged a cable (since the disks were actually outside
the computer). So it was /safe/ to (un)plug the IDE interface cables while
on ATX standby power; I don't see a reason why it shouldn't have been. You
say it never is; I say if the proper precautions are taken, it can be
(because it is from the IDE bus/mobo/disk corruption POV).

Not in any engineering firm that I am aware of. If you don't _know_ then
you find out.

That's maybe the reason why you quit engineering. The only thing worse than
an engineer who doesn't know anything is one who thinks he knows something


Good engineering is always about successfully approximating things and
making the odds work for you. You'd probably be surprised to see how little
of all the possible ramifications is known to anybody designing a product.
There's just not the time to get to the /real/ bottom of things. You always
have to stop spending time and money /somewhere/ -- and always short of
getting all the answers. A good engineer has a high probability of getting
the relevant answers sufficiently close, a bad engineer hasn't. And even a
good engineer doesn't know up front whether he did -- and a good engineer
knows that.

(And before you go ahead and read into this that I think I'm a good
engineer: while I'm aspiring to be a good one, I don't think it's up to me
to judge that. I let the people I design for judge how good they think I
am.)

Gerhard

 

[Sparky Spartacus]

Buy the cheap internal EIDE HDDs and put them in cheap USB2/FireWire
external cases you can buy (US$20-30, although I haven't scoured the
'Net for the best price). I can't imagine paying the freight the HDD
companies want for external HDDs.

Is there much point with the C ? They age pretty
quickly and can be easily replaced if you need to.

Likely better to keep a list of them rather than backing them up.


Very viable.


That doesnt gain much backup wise, having it out of the
system. If it isnt hidden it may well get stolen with the
system and it obviously isnt protected against fire or flood etc.

I do weekly (more or less) backups to external HDDs and once a month I
take the latest HDD and put it in my off site storage, so even if my
computer is stolen or the building burns down, my worst case scenario is
recovering as of the first of the month.

It shouldnt be if you use a formal standard like SATA.


Yes, particularly if you are prone to dropping things.

Hard drives hate that.

True, but what are considered "normal shocks"? It's best not to drop HDDs.

 

[Sparky Spartacus]

You are just speaking of two very different backup strategies. It is a
personal preference and you should use what you feel comfortable with.
Either one is "good"! Try them both and you will soon gravitate toward one
as "your" preferred method.

The key, of course, is *having* a backup strategy and actually using it.
That alone will put you ahead of probably 90% of home computer users
(maybe more).

 

[Sparky Spartacus]

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) wrote:

Caveats:

1) XP original (SP0) can't "see" HDs < 137G
2) XP installations do not survive file-level copying, must image
3) ATX "off" maintains power trickle; unsafe to remove IDE HDs

Do a normal Windows shutdown, cut power to the complex (trivial if
you're using a UPS), then press & hold the power button for 10-20
seconds. That'll bleed off any remaining charge on the motherboard.

4) S-ATA hot-swappability requires S-ATA power connection
5) Single recent backup may contain pre-existing problems
6) HDs don't sem to like brackets and exclosures

Huh? What do you mean by "brackets and exclosures" (enclosures, of course)?

 

[Marty]

Somewhere around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 04:55:30 +1000, while reading
alt.video.dvd.tech, I think I thought I saw this post from "Rod Speed"

Utterly mangled all over again.

Your comments might be useful if you were to elaborate enough to say what
point is wrong. I know for a fact that most of what was said is true,
though not everything is complete - but simply saying "is not" like a little
kid doesn't really contribute anything other than hard feelings on the part
of someone who is actually trying to make a positive contribution rather
than simply negating everything.

And if you think everyone should not say anything unless it's 100% accurate,
then you don't understand the purpose of discussion groups; also, you would
have nobody to disagree with, as you would be the only poster.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Your comments might be useful if you were to elaborate enough to
say what point is wrong. I know for a fact that most of what was
said is true, though not everything is complete - but simply saying
"is not" like a little kid doesn't really contribute anything other than
hard feelings on the part of someone who is actually trying to make
a positive contribution rather than simply negating everything.

And if you think everyone should not say anything unless it's 100%
accurate, then you don't understand the purpose of discussion
groups; also, you would have nobody to disagree with, as you would
be the only poster.

< grin > Welcome to Rod's World (and Folkert's World, and
several others' World). If you read this NG enough (i.e. ~.storage),
you'll realize that many of the regulars are all the same guy venting
his multiple personalities. Relax and let it run off your back.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Rod Speed]

Your comments might be useful if you were to
elaborate enough to say what point is wrong.

I clearly did. That is why I interleaved my comments, so it
was clear just which points of his I am saying are wrong.

I know for a fact that most of what was said is true,

No such 'fact' and you didnt say which
bits you claim are right, anyway, hypocrite.

though not everything is complete - but simply saying "is not"
like a little kid doesn't really contribute anything other than hard
feelings on the part of someone who is actually trying to make
a positive contribution rather than simply negating everything.

You in spades, child. I do however have the balls to put
my name on my post, unlike you who cowers anonymously.

And if you think everyone should not
say anything unless it's 100% accurate,

Having fun thrashing that straw man are you child ?

then you don't understand the purpose of discussion groups;

Pity that pig ignorant prat is posturing with that (MVP Windows shell/user)
crap.

also, you would have nobody to disagree
with, as you would be the only poster.

Only in your pathetic little drug crazed fantasyland.

 

[Rod Speed]

< grin > Welcome to Rod's World (and Folkert's World, and several others'
World). If you read this NG enough (i.e. ~.storage), you'll realize that many
of the regulars are all the same guy venting his multiple personalities.

You've been having these pathetic little delusions long have you child ?

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

Bullshit.

<sigh> ...here we go again...

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;LN;331060

"The flush cache command is not issued to a large hard disk that has a
48-bit logical block address (LBA) enabled. As a result, the hard disk
may become corrupted when you enter either the Shutdown state or the
Hibernate state."

These dudes found out about this the hard way...

http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/1063617810

Wrong.

Nope; that's consistently been my mileage, with both XP installations
of NTFS and FATxx. Do a file-level copy, won't work; do an image
copy, will (though you may have to do a partition size nudge if using
BING to do the imaging).

Bullshit.

Impact of "repair install" on a freshly-setup XP Pro SP2:
- creation of new accounts, if NTFS
- AVG 7.0 "installation damaged, please re-install"
- loss of patches
- loss of certain settings that you may have applies, e.g.
- Auto-restart on errors re-enabled
- RPC failures revert to restarting the whole system
- IE install-on-demand reverts to enabled
- OE re-asserted as default email application
- lost status for Windows updates (was "auto-dl, then prompt")
- units of measurement revert to King's Toenails a la US profile
- various deleted UI elements re-asserted
- various lost privacy protections in Windows Media Pimp

I've never bothered to figure out how to killfile a particular poster,
but I'm beginning to see why it may be a good idea.

--------------- ------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

When your mind goes blank, remember to turn down the sound

 

[Rod Speed]

<sigh> ...here we go again...

Yep, you desperately attempting to bullshit your way out of your
predicament, and fooling absolutely no one at all, as always.

Heavy breathing aint gunna save your bacon, child.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;LN;331060

"The flush cache command is not issued to a large hard disk
that has a 48-bit logical block address (LBA) enabled. As a
result, the hard disk may become corrupted when you enter
either the Shutdown state or the Hibernate state."

Pity that in practice thats rarely ever a problem.

These dudes found out about this the hard way...

http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/1063617810

Pathetic, really.

Yep.

that's consistently been my mileage, with
both XP installations of NTFS and FATxx.

Do a file-level copy, won't work; do an image copy, will

How odd that so many of us manage to get a bootable
clone time after time after time without doing an image.

(though you may have to do a partition size
nudge if using BING to do the imaging).

Dont bother with crap like that myself.

Impact of "repair install" on a freshly-setup XP Pro SP2:
- creation of new accounts, if NTFS
Bullshit.

- AVG 7.0 "installation damaged, please re-install"
Bullshit.

- loss of patches
Yawn.

- loss of certain settings that you may have applies, e.g.
- Auto-restart on errors re-enabled
- RPC failures revert to restarting the whole system
- IE install-on-demand reverts to enabled
- OE re-asserted as default email application
- lost status for Windows updates (was "auto-dl, then prompt")
- units of measurement revert to King's Toenails a la US profile
- various deleted UI elements re-asserted
- various lost privacy protections in Windows Media Pimp

Pathetic, really.

I've never bothered to figure out how to killfile a particular
poster, but I'm beginning to see why it may be a good idea.

Wont save your bacon, you silly little posturing ****wit.

 

[Marty]

Somewhere around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:27:09 -0700, while reading
alt.video.dvd.tech, I think I thought I saw this post from "Timothy Daniels"

< grin > Welcome to Rod's World (and Folkert's World, and
several others' World). If you read this NG enough (i.e. ~.storage),
you'll realize that many of the regulars are all the same guy venting
his multiple personalities. Relax and let it run off your back.

Thanks, although he revealed his true self pretty quickly in the following
posts. He's predictably pathetic, and I won't waste our time with him any
longer. Sorry to feed the troll - it won't happen again.

 

[Marty]

Somewhere around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:50:01 +0200, while reading
alt.video.dvd.tech, I think I thought I saw this post from "cquirke (MVP

I've never bothered to figure out how to killfile a particular poster,
but I'm beginning to see why it may be a good idea.

In Agent, you can right-click on a post, and choose "Filters", then "Add
kill filter". It will default to adding the author. The default filter
action is to mark it as read, so if you are viewing only unread messages,
you will not see it, unless you view all messages.

I don't killfile many people, but a few are worthwile, and this one has set
a speed record.

Marty
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
-William G. McAdoo