Windows XP -- encrypt, decrypt -- I am in deep TROUBLE -- HELP!!

G

Guest

1) Well the first mistake was to use Microsoft.
2) I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data folder.
Looked all easy and nice.
3) After 2 months I can't access any of my data including tax filings,
property tax, bills etc. etc.

Now called SONY, went through everything that can be done
1) Restored the system
2) Password change -- don't remember what the password was when I did encrypt
3) Certificate crap -- import/export, recovery etc. etc.

Nothing! In the Advanced Tab -> Encrypt -> Details shows "my
user@my-desktop" can access the file. But I CAN'T ---

SONY says go to disk salvagers. MSFT wants $35 and no guarantees. If encrypt
is so transparent, why I am in trouble? They should've warned -- DON'T USE
THIS CRAP, you might lose all your data.

Anyone? Please? If you help me, God bless you!
 
G

GeneK

Why is it anybodies fault except yours?? Somewhere it tells you THAT YOU
MUST save that password in order to restore that data.
Gene K
 
S

Suzi Wong

1) Well the first mistake was to use Microsoft.

Obligatory Microsoft bashing noted.
2) I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data
folder. Looked all easy and nice.
3) After 2 months I can't access any of my data including tax filings,
property tax, bills etc. etc.

Let's review:

" I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data folder.
Looked all easy and nice."

So far, so good.

"Password change -- don't remember what the password was when I did encrypt"

You *forgot* your password.

Awwwww, poor thing.



Do you think your little problem would be more easily solved had you been
using another OS ?
 
G

Guest

It is Microsoft's fault. Encrypting is so easy and looks innocent little
helper. When they allow me to change password (I don't think I did but if
there is a problem, maybe I did) through control panel, it should say you
sould lose everything! I tried all the passwords I usually use but to no help.

Hope your reply does not digress other would be helpers.
 
S

Suzi Wong

1) Well the first mistake was to use Microsoft.

Obligatory Microsoft bashing noted.
2) I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data
folder. Looked all easy and nice.
3) After 2 months I can't access any of my data including tax filings,
property tax, bills etc. etc.

Let's review:

" I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data folder.
Looked all easy and nice."

So far, so good.

"Password change -- don't remember what the password was when I did encrypt"

You *forgot* your password.

Awwwww, poor thing.



Do you think your little problem would be more easily solved had you been
using another OS ?
 
S

Suzi Wong

1) Well the first mistake was to use Microsoft.

Obligatory Microsoft bashing noted.
2) I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data
folder. Looked all easy and nice.
3) After 2 months I can't access any of my data including tax filings,
property tax, bills etc. etc.

Let's review:

" I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data folder.
Looked all easy and nice."

So far, so good.

"Password change -- don't remember what the password was when I did encrypt"

*You* forgot /your/ password. Not Mr Gates, not Mr Ballmer, not the Pope,
you.


Do you think your little problem would be more easily solved had you been
using another OS ?
 
W

Will_S

Sonali said:
It is Microsoft's fault. Encrypting is so easy and looks innocent little
helper. When they allow me to change password (I don't think I did but if
there is a problem, maybe I did) through control panel, it should say you
sould lose everything! I tried all the passwords I usually use but to no
help.

Hope your reply does not digress other would be helpers.


Well if you just come out and put in the details without abusing anyone I am
sure people would be glad to help.

Also before using anything maybe you should learn what you are doing
 
S

Spikey

Sonali said:
3) After 2 months I can't access any of my data including tax filings,
property tax, bills etc. etc.
http://www.actmon.com/password-recovery/ may help.

The trial version only gives the first/last few characters but it usually
jogs the old memory.

A point of note:- this group isnt run by microsoft. It is a public group
assisted valiantly by knowledgeable people giving up their free time to help
others.

IMO posting pleasantly gains very helpful replys. Ranting brings out the
trolls and gets you ignored by the very people you need to help you.

:blush:)
 
L

Leythos

It is Microsoft's fault. Encrypting is so easy and looks innocent little
helper. When they allow me to change password (I don't think I did but if
there is a problem, maybe I did) through control panel, it should say you
sould lose everything! I tried all the passwords I usually use but to no help.

Hope your reply does not digress other would be helpers.

If you were not so rude about it - blaming MS for your mistake, you
would get a lot more help.

Anyone making a change that impacts their data should be smart enough to
backup that data first, backups have been around for more than 20 years.
 
H

HeyBub

1) Well the first mistake was to use Microsoft.
2) I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data
folder. Looked all easy and nice.
3) After 2 months I can't access any of my data including tax filings,
property tax, bills etc. etc.

Now called SONY, went through everything that can be done
1) Restored the system
2) Password change -- don't remember what the password was when I did
encrypt 3) Certificate crap -- import/export, recovery etc. etc.

Nothing! In the Advanced Tab -> Encrypt -> Details shows "my
user@my-desktop" can access the file. But I CAN'T ---

SONY says go to disk salvagers. MSFT wants $35 and no guarantees. If
encrypt is so transparent, why I am in trouble? They should've warned
-- DON'T USE THIS CRAP, you might lose all your data.

Anyone? Please? If you help me, God bless you!

How do we know you're not a hacker or disgruntled spouse trying to get to
Sonali's private stuff?

There are entities that can help. There's an old saying: "If you have a
problem that can be solved with money, you don't have a problem: you have an
expense."
 
A

Allan Hill

1) Well the first mistake was to use Microsoft.

Obligatory Microsoft bashing noted.
2) I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data
folder. Looked all easy and nice.
3) After 2 months I can't access any of my data including tax filings,
property tax, bills etc. etc.

Let's review:

" I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data folder.
Looked all easy and nice."

So far, so good.

"Password change -- don't remember what the password was when I did encrypt"

You *forgot* your password.

Awwwww, poor thing.



Do you think your little problem would be more easily solved had you been
using another OS ?
 
R

Rhonda Lea Kirk

It is Microsoft's fault.

No it isn't. It's yours.

You can ask anyone on this group--I'm the first one to blame Microsoft
when Microsoft is to blame, and maybe even sometimes when it isn't.

Microsoft is most assuredly not to blame for your problem.
Encrypting is so easy and looks innocent
little helper. When they allow me to change password (I don't think I
did but if there is a problem, maybe I did) through control panel, it
should say you sould lose everything! I tried all the passwords I
usually use but to no help.

Next time, rtfm. If you fail to take responsibility for understanding
the tool, the consequential damage is the fault of no one but you.
Hope your reply does not digress other would be helpers.

The word you're looking for is not "digress," but "discourage."

The question is, who wants to help a nitwit with no discernible brain,
but a great deal of false pride?

Probably no one.
 
G

Guest

Thank you all for your wonderful help. Looks like a genuine problem that XP
has but my small ranting of microsoft for by really BIG problem made you all
call one of microsoft's customer nitwit, idiot etc.

Anywyas on more techinical and serious note. After doing some serious search
and working with Sony & Microsoft paid support here is what we found out

1) Password change was asked by XP login after 42 days
2) XP never warned of anything about the 'transparet' encryption button
3) I can still export the certificate and I do have the password which is
required while importing the certificate
4) Chaging back the password, system restore etc. could not help
5) Official response from Sony and Microsoft -- they can't do anything but
won't tell me what did I do wrong or what is the problem.

Looks like the certificates are lost or something -- a guess by all.

Think about it -- "I" could be your non-technical parent, spouse or sibling
who happens to a doc, teacher or police or firefighter (I am techie and do
understand stuff, but not at certificates, recovery etc. level). There is no
way non-techies are going to back up certificates when the little button says
"encrypt" data and is highly recommended.

The encrypted folder worked just fine for 1-2 months and the whole thing
just stopped working because XP login asked me to change password. Now, if I
am the owner and chaging my password, why shouldn't an elegant design change
password on anything that was suppose to be working "transparently"? XP is
asking me to change login password because of security reason but that simple
act can cause major permanent headaches! I was concerned for lack of coherent
design. I wonder what would a poor small business owner would do he his
crucial data is lost for something simple as this.

BUT looks like luck was on this 'dumb' user's side.
1) I had backed up all my data using Maxtor III -- but it backed up encryped
version. I could NOT recover the files.
2) I had backed ONCE with a plain copy "My Documents" to an external hard
drive which was backed automatically by Maxtor III
3) Maxtor III could then recover my data from #2 above

Lessons learnt from this almost catastrophic event
1) Don't use encryption. If you do, read everything about encryption as if
you are going to design encryption/decryption systems.
2) Backup using plain copy as only decrypted data gets copied! But why do u
want to encrypt in the first place?
3) If you use automatic incremental backup, tough luck!
4) Don't modify ANY password at login prompt. It won't warn you. But ain't
that security hole to keep same password?
5) Any feature that says "transparently" or "Advanced" -- just don't bother
using unless you've read everything about it and have done some basic unit
testing.
6) Don't ask too many questions on Microsoft hosted site ;-)
 
O

Oziebill

It seems to me, jugding by your psots, that you have a prbolem with speling
or at least with transposing letetrs in wrods. So, I wnoder if you have done
this with your paswsord recoridng, and are unable to replciate the recroded
pissword.

I hope the MD in your nic does not indicate a medical degree - I'd pity your
patients.

By the way, all the people responding in these forums are doing so
voluntarily - and mostly they provide an invaluable service to the rest of
us requiring answers to our problems. Spend ten minutes browsing and you
will learn. Oh, and your spellchecker will correct all of my errors and
probably yours.









: Thank you all for your wonderful help. Looks like a genuine problem that
XP
: has but my small ranting of microsoft for by really BIG problem made you
all
: call one of microsoft's customer nitwit, idiot etc.
:
: Anywyas on more techinical and serious note. After doing some serious
search
: and working with Sony & Microsoft paid support here is what we found out
:
: 1) Password change was asked by XP login after 42 days
: 2) XP never warned of anything about the 'transparet' encryption button
: 3) I can still export the certificate and I do have the password which is
: required while importing the certificate
: 4) Chaging back the password, system restore etc. could not help
: 5) Official response from Sony and Microsoft -- they can't do anything but
: won't tell me what did I do wrong or what is the problem.
:
: Looks like the certificates are lost or something -- a guess by all.
:
: Think about it -- "I" could be your non-technical parent, spouse or
sibling
: who happens to a doc, teacher or police or firefighter (I am techie and do
: understand stuff, but not at certificates, recovery etc. level). There is
no
: way non-techies are going to back up certificates when the little button
says
: "encrypt" data and is highly recommended.
:
: The encrypted folder worked just fine for 1-2 months and the whole thing
: just stopped working because XP login asked me to change password. Now, if
I
: am the owner and chaging my password, why shouldn't an elegant design
change
: password on anything that was suppose to be working "transparently"? XP is
: asking me to change login password because of security reason but that
simple
: act can cause major permanent headaches! I was concerned for lack of
coherent
: design. I wonder what would a poor small business owner would do he his
: crucial data is lost for something simple as this.
:
: BUT looks like luck was on this 'dumb' user's side.
: 1) I had backed up all my data using Maxtor III -- but it backed up
encryped
: version. I could NOT recover the files.
: 2) I had backed ONCE with a plain copy "My Documents" to an external hard
: drive which was backed automatically by Maxtor III
: 3) Maxtor III could then recover my data from #2 above
:
: Lessons learnt from this almost catastrophic event
: 1) Don't use encryption. If you do, read everything about encryption as if
: you are going to design encryption/decryption systems.
: 2) Backup using plain copy as only decrypted data gets copied! But why do
u
: want to encrypt in the first place?
: 3) If you use automatic incremental backup, tough luck!
: 4) Don't modify ANY password at login prompt. It won't warn you. But ain't
: that security hole to keep same password?
: 5) Any feature that says "transparently" or "Advanced" -- just don't
bother
: using unless you've read everything about it and have done some basic unit
: testing.
: 6) Don't ask too many questions on Microsoft hosted site ;-)
:
:
:
:
: "Allan Hill" wrote:
:
: > Sonali, MD wrote:
: > > 1) Well the first mistake was to use Microsoft.
: >
: > Obligatory Microsoft bashing noted.
: >
: > > 2) I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data
: > > folder. Looked all easy and nice.
: > > 3) After 2 months I can't access any of my data including tax filings,
: > > property tax, bills etc. etc.
: >
: > Let's review:
: >
: > " I thought let's encrypt the data -- enabled on my sensitive data
folder.
: > Looked all easy and nice."
: >
: > So far, so good.
: >
: > "Password change -- don't remember what the password was when I did
encrypt"
: >
: > You *forgot* your password.
: >
: > Awwwww, poor thing.
: >
: >
: >
: > Do you think your little problem would be more easily solved had you
been
: > using another OS ?
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
 
R

RA

Thank you all for your wonderful help. Looks like a genuine problem
that XP has but my small ranting of microsoft for by really BIG
problem made you all call one of microsoft's customer nitwit, idiot
etc.

Anywyas on more techinical and serious note. After doing some serious
search and working with Sony & Microsoft paid support here is what we
found out

1) Password change was asked by XP login after 42 days
2) XP never warned of anything about the 'transparet' encryption
button 3) I can still export the certificate and I do have the
password which is required while importing the certificate
4) Chaging back the password, system restore etc. could not help
5) Official response from Sony and Microsoft -- they can't do
anything but won't tell me what did I do wrong or what is the problem.

Looks like the certificates are lost or something -- a guess by all.

Think about it -- "I" could be your non-technical parent, spouse or
sibling who happens to a doc, teacher or police or firefighter (I am
techie and do understand stuff, but not at certificates, recovery
etc. level). There is no way non-techies are going to back up
certificates when the little button says "encrypt" data and is highly
recommended.

The encrypted folder worked just fine for 1-2 months and the whole
thing just stopped working because XP login asked me to change
password. Now, if I am the owner and chaging my password, why
shouldn't an elegant design change password on anything that was
suppose to be working "transparently"? XP is asking me to change
login password because of security reason but that simple act can
cause major permanent headaches! I was concerned for lack of coherent
design. I wonder what would a poor small business owner would do he
his crucial data is lost for something simple as this.

BUT looks like luck was on this 'dumb' user's side.
1) I had backed up all my data using Maxtor III -- but it backed up
encryped version. I could NOT recover the files.
2) I had backed ONCE with a plain copy "My Documents" to an external
hard drive which was backed automatically by Maxtor III
3) Maxtor III could then recover my data from #2 above

Lessons learnt from this almost catastrophic event
1) Don't use encryption. If you do, read everything about encryption
as if you are going to design encryption/decryption systems.
2) Backup using plain copy as only decrypted data gets copied! But
why do u want to encrypt in the first place?
3) If you use automatic incremental backup, tough luck!
4) Don't modify ANY password at login prompt. It won't warn you. But
ain't that security hole to keep same password?
5) Any feature that says "transparently" or "Advanced" -- just don't
bother using unless you've read everything about it and have done
some basic unit testing.
6) Don't ask too many questions on Microsoft hosted site ;-)
You can ask all the questions you want on Microsoft hosted site and get lots
of wonderful and helpful replies. There are lots of issues you can rant on
about Microsoft and people here will join in the chorus. But don't expect a
lot of sympathy if you start out blaming Microsoft for a problem you caused
because you didn't understand the consequences of your actions.
 
G

Guest

Hmm... guys give that person a break! I think it is a genuine problem. Nobody
seems to be addressing the real concern.
 
L

Lem

Sonali said:
Thank you all for your wonderful help. Looks like a genuine problem that XP
has but my small ranting of microsoft for by really BIG problem made you all
call one of microsoft's customer nitwit, idiot etc.

Anywyas on more techinical and serious note. After doing some serious search
and working with Sony & Microsoft paid support here is what we found out

1) Password change was asked by XP login after 42 days
2) XP never warned of anything about the 'transparet' encryption button
3) I can still export the certificate and I do have the password which is
required while importing the certificate
4) Chaging back the password, system restore etc. could not help
5) Official response from Sony and Microsoft -- they can't do anything but
won't tell me what did I do wrong or what is the problem.

Looks like the certificates are lost or something -- a guess by all.

Think about it -- "I" could be your non-technical parent, spouse or sibling
who happens to a doc, teacher or police or firefighter (I am techie and do
understand stuff, but not at certificates, recovery etc. level). There is no
way non-techies are going to back up certificates when the little button says
"encrypt" data and is highly recommended.

The encrypted folder worked just fine for 1-2 months and the whole thing
just stopped working because XP login asked me to change password. Now, if I
am the owner and chaging my password, why shouldn't an elegant design change
password on anything that was suppose to be working "transparently"? XP is
asking me to change login password because of security reason but that simple
act can cause major permanent headaches! I was concerned for lack of coherent
design. I wonder what would a poor small business owner would do he his
crucial data is lost for something simple as this.

BUT looks like luck was on this 'dumb' user's side.
1) I had backed up all my data using Maxtor III -- but it backed up encryped
version. I could NOT recover the files.
2) I had backed ONCE with a plain copy "My Documents" to an external hard
drive which was backed automatically by Maxtor III
3) Maxtor III could then recover my data from #2 above

Lessons learnt from this almost catastrophic event
1) Don't use encryption. If you do, read everything about encryption as if
you are going to design encryption/decryption systems.
2) Backup using plain copy as only decrypted data gets copied! But why do u
want to encrypt in the first place?
3) If you use automatic incremental backup, tough luck!
4) Don't modify ANY password at login prompt. It won't warn you. But ain't
that security hole to keep same password?
5) Any feature that says "transparently" or "Advanced" -- just don't bother
using unless you've read everything about it and have done some basic unit
testing.
6) Don't ask too many questions on Microsoft hosted site ;-)

First of all, things like minimum/maximum password age, password
complexity, and password history are all user-configurable through the
Security Configuration Manager. As the OP discovered, MS sets the
default max password age at 42 days.

Second, the OP is correct -- Windows EFS is much too powerful -- and has
far too dire consequences if used carelessly -- to be used by the casual
user. WinXP hides all sorts of things from the user (such as system
files), prevents you from deleting critical system files, but too easily
lets you irrecoverably encrypt data without forcing proper precautions.
And, MS has recognized that the situation that has befallen the OP is
a bug to be fixed. See KB890591 below. So, yes, the OP was justified
in criticizing MS.

Here are a few links that may -- or may not, at this point -- help the
OP (probably not, because the solution to this Microsoft-recognized
problem is to change the password back to what it was at the time the
files were encrypted; how many of the sarcastic responders to this post
remember their last n passwords?).

These KB articles should be read before anyone decides that using WinXP
file encryption is something that they want to do.

"Best practices for the Encrypting File System"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223316/en-us

"You cannot access EFS files after you change the user password to a new
password on a Windows XP Service Pack 2-based computer"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/890951/en-us

"EFS, Credentials, and Private Keys from Certificates Are Unavailable
After a Password Is Reset"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290260/en-us

"User cannot gain access to certificate functionality after password
change or when using a roaming profile"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/331333/en-us
 
S

Spikey

Will L said:
Hmm... guys give that person a break! I think it is a genuine problem.
Nobody
seems to be addressing the real concern.

I did try!!

I have a suspicion English is not the op's first language??

:blush:)
 
G

Guest

Yes ofcorse Ozibeel sir! Nesht time I shall chek speleeng meestek.

Let's not talk about our degrees -- I might be your Kardiologist or Polis
offiser who could have lost all his/her important data including your ECGs or
alybis prufs.

I am a bit worried about this feature from long term windows use
perspective. What it says is -- if a hacker gets hold of my Old Password,
he/she can break into my system but I can't if I forget my old password. What
if I visit the files after say '10 months' without realizing the
'transparency' of encryption (it really is easy to use).
 

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