Windows/Linux dual booting

G

Guest

I would like to experiment with linux on a separate partition on my hard
drive. Is there a simple app that I can install that will allow me to dual
boot? Like VistaBootPro? I have checked out the proceedures for installing
linux and dual booting but it seems very complicated and not for the
squeamish.
 
G

Guest

Victor said:
I would like to experiment with linux on a separate partition on my hard
drive. Is there a simple app that I can install that will allow me to dual
boot? Like VistaBootPro? I have checked out the proceedures for installing
linux and dual booting but it seems very complicated and not for the
squeamish.

victor, its easy, all linux distros have a boot loader, install windows
onto the partition of your choice first, then stick your linux cd in,
choose another empty partition for linux, during the install it will
see there is another os installed, it will ask for a label, call it
winxp or something, continue through the install and when you boot your
pc each time you will have an option of which os to load.

I recommend kubuntoo for newbies to linux

Flamer.
 
P

P. Johnson

Victor said:
I would like to experiment with linux on a separate partition on my hard
drive. Is there a simple app that I can install that will allow me to
dual boot?

GRUB. Comes with most Linux distributions. Debian multiboots well with
other OS's. All Microsoft OS's (XENIX, DOS and Windows) have been designed
either before multibooting was something people thought to do; and more
recently, to be hostile to multibooting, so the procedure is a bit more
complicated than it has to be, and requires re-installation of Windows.
http://ursine.ca/cgi-bin/dwww/usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-html/Multiboot-with-GRUB.html

This question has been answered many times, with the answer archived in a
many places. Doing basic research before asking questions will save you
time over asking the same question again.
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
 
M

Malke

Victor said:
I would like to experiment with linux on a separate partition on my
hard
drive. Is there a simple app that I can install that will allow me to
dual
boot? Like VistaBootPro? I have checked out the proceedures for
installing linux and dual booting but it seems very complicated and
not for the squeamish.

All Linux distros will let you dual-boot, but why not try a live distro
instead? Get Knoppix or maybe Ubuntu has a live version. These live
distros run from cd. You download the .iso and burn it using
third-party burning software. Then boot with the .iso and give Linux a
whirl. If you hate it, just reboot without the cd! Your XP will be
untouched.

Malke
 
G

G.T.

P. Johnson said:
GRUB. Comes with most Linux distributions. Debian multiboots well with
other OS's. All Microsoft OS's (XENIX, DOS and Windows) have been designed
either before multibooting was something people thought to do; and more
recently, to be hostile to multibooting, so the procedure is a bit more
complicated than it has to be, and requires re-installation of Windows.
http://ursine.ca/cgi-bin/dwww/usr/share/doc/HOWTO/en-html/Multiboot-with-GRUB.html

Glad I switched years ago to OpenBSD for my open source needs. Installs in
20 minutes, copy the OpenBSD PBR to c:\, edit boot.ini, and I'm off dual
booting.

Greg
 
A

arachnid

All Linux distros will let you dual-boot, but why not try a live distro
instead? Get Knoppix or maybe Ubuntu has a live version. These live
distros run from cd. You download the .iso and burn it using third-party
burning software. Then boot with the .iso and give Linux a whirl. If you
hate it, just reboot without the cd! Your XP will be untouched.

Another way to go is a Virtual Machine. That lets you run Linux
simultaneously with Windows and saves having to mess with your HD
partitions. If you go to http://www.vmware.com and dig around, you'll find
VMware Server for free. Install that. Then go back and dig around for the
VMWare appliances. Those are virtual machines all set up and ready to run
under VMWare server. Some are VM's with various Linux distributions
pre-installed that will let you can get familiar with Linux without
having to deal with installation issues.

For whatever it's worth, I highly recommend Ubuntu. If you don't like that
one, you might also investigate SuSE, MEPIS, and PCLinuxOS.

There are several "flavors" of Ubuntu for people who prefer different
Window Managers (GUI's with different look-and-feel). Ubuntu uses GNOME,
Kubuntu uses KDE, and XUbuntu uses XFCE. You can turn any one of these
into any of the others just by installing the appropriate Window
Manager.

For further info on Ubuntu, just ask in alt.os.linux.ubuntu
 
P

P. Johnson

Malke said:
All Linux distros will let you dual-boot, but why not try a live distro
instead? Get Knoppix or maybe Ubuntu has a live version. These live
distros run from cd. You download the .iso and burn it using
third-party burning software. Then boot with the .iso and give Linux a
whirl. If you hate it, just reboot without the cd! Your XP will be
untouched.

LiveCDs are destined to give a user a bad experience, since they can only
run as fast as your CDROM is. If you want to give Linux an honest chance,
make it your primary OS on your primary machine for a couple months and
relegate Windows you your extra machine. Be willing to be flexible, and
don't think in terms of a Windows user, but as a new user, when you start
using Linux. Windows design is gratuitously different from the rest of the
computing universe at this point, so Windows experience is next to useless
on pretty much every other OS beyond the basic WIMP environment
(http://www.ursine.ca/WIMP_environment).
 
A

arachnid

Glad I switched years ago to OpenBSD for my open source needs. Installs in
20 minutes, copy the OpenBSD PBR to c:\, edit boot.ini, and I'm off dual
booting.

I'm a big FreeBSD lover myself, although a hardware problem's forced me to
change to Linux for awhile. IMO booteasy just can't be beat. It's not
especially pretty but all 512 bytes of it fit in the MBR and it adjusts
its menu automatically as you install and remove operating systems.
 
P

P. Johnson

arachnid said:
Another way to go is a Virtual Machine. That lets you run Linux
simultaneously with Windows and saves having to mess with your HD
partitions. If you go to http://www.vmware.com and dig around, you'll find
VMware Server for free. Install that.

The problem is the eval licence for VMWare is pretty short, and it's pretty
expensive software. Also doesn't let you take full advantage of what Linux
can do for you (VMWare runs godawful slow on Windows, no matter what the
virtualized OS is).
For whatever it's worth, I highly recommend Ubuntu. If you don't like that
one, you might also investigate SuSE, MEPIS, and PCLinuxOS.

I advise against SuSE, Red Hat, Fedora, Slackware, and Gentoo. RPM barely
works even if you know what you're doing (and usually more trouble than
it's worth). Installing software from source is a time-consuming pain in
the broadest sense imaginable, and portage is for BSD and Gentoo weenies
who think they're gaining anything by recompiling the world (instead of
kernel and multimedia packages that would actually benefit from
optimizations available by compiling it for a specific sub-architecture),
but acknowledge that doing it all by hand is a lousy approach.

Ubuntu's nice, but relatively limited given it's Debian heritage. Debian's
about as easy to install as Ubuntu, but has a lot more packages available.
Both use dpkg and apt for package management, apt makes installing software
on Ubuntu and (especially) Debian easier than Windows (going to the store,
buying software, having to figure out what it requires on your own, and
having to fight with installing it on your own seems like stone knives and
bearskin clothes when compared to one command and not even having to get up
to install properly licensed software using apt).
There are several "flavors" of Ubuntu for people who prefer different
Window Managers (GUI's with different look-and-feel). Ubuntu uses GNOME,
Kubuntu uses KDE, and XUbuntu uses XFCE. You can turn any one of these
into any of the others just by installing the appropriate Window
Manager.

That's another nice thing about Debian when compared to Ubuntu: One 120 MB
CD and a fast internet connection (or a couple DVDs or about a dozen CDs)
gives you access to all packages available instead of cookie-cutting
various tasks into individual distributions. Ubuntu's approach seems kind
of like spinning in circles by comparison there.

More about Debian can be found at http://debian.org/ or
nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.user
 
A

arachnid

arachnid wrote:



The problem is the eval licence for VMWare is pretty short, and it's
pretty expensive software. Also doesn't let you take full advantage of
what Linux can do for you

That's VMware Workstation. VMware Server is just plain old free. It's not
an evaluation version.
(VMWare runs godawful slow on Windows, no matter what the virtualized OS
is).

Only if you need 3D graphics. The graphics card has to be emulated in
software and that makes 3D "acceleration" extremely slow. For normal
2D desktop use, and provided you install the vmware tools, it's nearly as
fast as native.
I advise against SuSE, Red Hat, Fedora, Slackware, and Gentoo.

Slackware and Gentoo are definitely not for beginners. The rest are just a
matter of one's religion.
RPM barely works even if you know what you're doing (and usually more
trouble than it's worth).

RPM works well under Fedora but it does eventually lead to a dead-end when
you want to work with source. I like Apt a whole lot more. But a
beginner's not going to notice the difference, and by the time he does
he'll have developed the skills to understand the issues and switch to
whatever distro best suits his needs.
Installing software from source is a time-consuming pain in the broadest
sense imaginable, and portage is for BSD and Gentoo weenies who think

FreeBSD's packaging system uses both source and precompiled binaries. On a
new installation I install the small, quickly-compiled stuff from source
and install the big things like KDE from binaries. That gets me up and
running ASAP, then later when I don't need the machine for a day I compile
KDE from source. Compiling for my specific hardware makes it noticeably
faster than the precompiled binaries.

Keep in mind that when binaries are distributed, they have to be compiled
for the lowest-common-denominator machine rather than taking full
advantage of modern CPU designs.
they're gaining anything by recompiling the world (instead of kernel and
multimedia packages that would actually benefit from optimizations
available by compiling it for a specific sub-architecture), but
acknowledge that doing it all by hand is a lousy approach.

I don't just compile for speed. I do it to confirm that I have working
source code for everything on my system, that I have the toolchains to
build everything from source, and because government backdoors are a whole
lot less likely to exist in publicly published source code than in
precompiled binaries.
Ubuntu's nice, but relatively limited given it's Debian heritage.

You have absolutely no basis for making that statement. I know because of
this:
Debian's about as easy to install as Ubuntu, but has a lot more packages
available.

If you had ever actually used Ubuntu and knew the slightest thing about
it, you'd know that its repositories are comparable to, and even
interchangeable with, Debian's.

As for which is better for beginners, take a look at the popularity chart
on distrowatch.com. Ubuntu is downloaded 3.5 times more often than Debian.
If you add up all the Ubuntu variations (just differences in Window
Managers), it's nearly 5 times more popular than Debian.

Ubuntu is stealing the show because it's *significantly* more
user-friendly than Debian, which has traditionally turned a cold shoulder
to beginners with no desire to become tech gurus.
That's another nice thing about Debian when compared to Ubuntu: One 120
MB CD and a fast internet connection (or a couple DVDs or about a dozen
CDs) gives you access to all packages available instead of
cookie-cutting various tasks into individual distributions. Ubuntu's
approach seems kind of like spinning in circles by comparison there.

Like I said in plain English, the only difference between the
different flavors is the default Window Manager. Other than that they're
all identical.
 
G

Gordon

P. Johnson said:
LiveCDs are destined to give a user a bad experience, since they can only
run as fast as your CDROM is.

but at least they enable you to check all your hardware works before you
install....for example, I ditched MEPIS because it wouldn't see my Firewire
ext HDD......
 
M

Malke

P. Johnson said:
LiveCDs are destined to give a user a bad experience, since they can
only
run as fast as your CDROM is. If you want to give Linux an honest
chance, make it your primary OS on your primary machine for a couple
months and
relegate Windows you your extra machine. Be willing to be flexible,
and don't think in terms of a Windows user, but as a new user, when
you start
using Linux. Windows design is gratuitously different from the rest
of the computing universe at this point, so Windows experience is next
to useless on pretty much every other OS beyond the basic WIMP
environment (http://www.ursine.ca/WIMP_environment).

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. The speed and responsiveness of a live
CD is dependent on the amount of RAM in the machine and, unless the end
user has an ancient optical drive from the Win98 days, any recent
optical drive will be just fine. If the machine has 512MB of RAM, it
will work most satisfactorily.

As Gordon has said, another advantage of using a live CD is that you can
see if your hardware works. I would suggest Ubuntu as being the easiest
and most user-friendly. Ubuntu - which is based on Debian - also makes
it extremely easy to install on the hard drive if you like it.

A Windows user who is interested in Linux should also spend a moment
reading the information here:

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
http://www.linux.org/news/opinion/success_user.html

Malke
 
P

P. Johnson

arachnid said:
Only if you need 3D graphics. The graphics card has to be emulated in
software and that makes 3D "acceleration" extremely slow. For normal
2D desktop use, and provided you install the vmware tools, it's nearly as
fast as native.

I know 3D graphics will be slow in the virtualized OS no matter what the
host OS is. I'm not complaining about that. VMWare just runs plain slow
on Windows as the host OS, when compared to the same hardware running
Debian.
RPM works well under Fedora but it does eventually lead to a dead-end when
you want to work with source.

Or you come across an RPM with a file-based dependency (WTF? Just depend on
the package, for chrissake!), or you come across an RPM that gratuitously
uses a different package naming convention (I remember trying Red Hat 5.2
back in the day and banging my head on the wall because some packages
depended on glibc5, others depended on libc5, yet others depended on
gnulibc5 more still depended on individual files. All are the same
package, but does RPM recognize them as such? NO! RPM's brain damage
largely comes from developers of those RPMs, but this situation has only
worsened over time (now that we have RPMs for each RPM based distribution
that tend to be mutually incompatible, even though they're all RPM). Even
Debian and every fork of Debian that doesn't run straight from the CD can
agree on package names and version numbering, and the retarded idea of file
dependencies is entirely nonexistent. I hypothesize based on the mistakes
learned from RPM that Debian deliberately made it so dpkg and apt make it
it much harder to create a package that sends users to dependency hell.
I like Apt a whole lot more. But a beginner's not going to notice the
difference, and by the time he does he'll have developed the skills to
understand the issues and switch to whatever distro best suits his needs.

I was a beginner when I learned the difference between dpkg and RPM in the
first month of using Linux. The former works reliably, the latter works
approximately whenever the hell it feels like. :blush:)
FreeBSD's packaging system uses both source and precompiled binaries.

So does Gentoo, but that doesn't stop portage from being a waste of time for
most people. It's great for hobbyists, and great for professionals who
need to make some obscure tweak that wouldn't be appropriate to include in
a more general distribution, but that's about it. Gentoo and the BSD's aim
to fill a niche market, and most people aren't in it. :blush:)
On a new installation I install the small, quickly-compiled stuff from
source and install the big things like KDE from binaries. That gets me up
and running ASAP, then later when I don't need the machine for a day I
compile KDE from source. Compiling for my specific hardware makes it
noticeably faster than the precompiled binaries.

I'd like to see that quantified. Usually when Gentoo folks quantify their
time savings, it's usually non-existent in reality except for multimedia
stuff and the kernel. And for the multimedia stuff and the kernel, most
distros do include sub-arch specific binaries for each arch it supports.
Keep in mind that when binaries are distributed, they have to be compiled
for the lowest-common-denominator machine rather than taking full
advantage of modern CPU designs.

Depends on the distro. Most RPM-based distros require a Pentium or PII
because they compile for i586 or i686 sub-arches. Debian compiles for i386
(which really is the LCD), and compiles sub-arch specific binaries for the
stuff that there is an actual, quantifiable gain in performance on.
I don't just compile for speed. I do it to confirm that I have working
source code for everything on my system, that I have the toolchains to
build everything from source, and because government backdoors are a whole
lot less likely to exist in publicly published source code than in
precompiled binaries.

Well, you're not going to find backdoors by compiling code, you need to comb
through it line-by-line before compiling it if that's your reason for going
from source. Otherwise, the backdoor could still be in the source, but you
wouldn't ever know about it without looking at the entire codebase
yourself, *and* you waste time compiling it yourself.
You have absolutely no basis for making that statement. I know because of
this:


If you had ever actually used Ubuntu and knew the slightest thing about
it, you'd know that its repositories are comparable to, and even
interchangeable with, Debian's.

I have used Ubuntu recently at my last job, I'm aware of what Ubuntu is and
does. My point is if you want to stick with a straight-up Ubuntu system
(since neither the Debian lists nor Canonical are generally willing to
provide help you if you mix and match), your software selection is limited.
As for which is better for beginners, take a look at the popularity chart
on distrowatch.com. Ubuntu is downloaded 3.5 times more often than Debian.
If you add up all the Ubuntu variations (just differences in Window
Managers), it's nearly 5 times more popular than Debian.

So? MySpace's sheer existence shows that 75 million people on this planet
can be wrong, and before that, AOL proved that 30 million Americans can be
wrong.
Ubuntu is stealing the show because it's *significantly* more
user-friendly than Debian, which has traditionally turned a cold shoulder
to beginners with no desire to become tech gurus.

No, Ubuntu is stealing the show because Canonical has an advertising budget.
 
P

P. Johnson

Gordon said:
but at least they enable you to check all your hardware works before you
install....for example, I ditched MEPIS because it wouldn't see my
Firewire ext HDD......

Yes and no. LiveCDs often only include a subset of the most common drivers
around, not the full compliment Linux is capable of. Just because the
LiveCD doesn't work doesn't mean a real distro won't.
 
P

P. Johnson

Malke said:
I'm sorry, but this is incorrect.

You've misinterpreted my statement. Please see my reply upthread, in
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

As for making your Linux machine your primary machine while you're trying
out Linux, I'm basing that on people I have successfully introduced to
Linux. It sounds daunting to try something new for a month, but when the
month's up, not many people reinstall windows, or if they do, they do it
only to avoid dealing with cedega for the few games made today that don't
have Linux users in mind...
 
G

Gordon

P. Johnson said:
Yes and no. LiveCDs often only include a subset of the most common
drivers
around, not the full compliment Linux is capable of. Just because the
LiveCD doesn't work doesn't mean a real distro won't.

Most distros with live CDs now just install off the same CD, so how can the
drivers not be the same?
 
P

P. Johnson

Gordon said:
Most distros with live CDs now just install off the same CD, so how can
the drivers not be the same?

The LiveCD probably has fewer drivers than the installable version would be,
since usually with the installable distros you end up downloading a lot of
packages anyway (including linux-image packages with a more complete set of
modules).
 
G

Gordon

P. Johnson said:
The LiveCD probably has fewer drivers than the installable version would
be, since usually with the installable distros you end up downloading a
lot of packages anyway (including linux-image packages with a more
complete set of modules).

But the downloads usually are updates and upgrades, not additional
drivers.....
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top