Will Visual Stuido Enrich MSIL coding?

[Kevin Spencer]

This is beginning to remind me of that scene in Jaws, where Roy Scheider,
Robert Shaw, and Richard Dreyfuss were showing off their scars to one
another...

....and you know what happened to *them*!

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
A watched clock never boils.

 

[Lau Lei Cheong]

I think you may have to write your own schema to do that(consider how Visual
Perl from ActiveState intergrates itself into VS.NET IDE), but I have no
idea of how to write a schema for particular language.

 

[Mr Newbie]

What can I say? Your probably right!

I really should shut up and be silent. After all, I really dont want to tick
off the 'ald fella' do I ?

;-D

 

[Richard Grimes]

IL is placed into a Microsoft-PE, it's never native x86 code in a 100%
managed PE file. IL is only converted to native code at the time it's
needed by the OS and that is performed by the JIT engine.

IL has its own opcodes but it's more abstract than x86 assembly in
that it's stored with the source constructs. x86 code is taken to
the binary level when compiled from say masm language.

Indeed, but the terms 'grandmother' and 'suck eggs' come to mind.

Richard

 

[Mr Newbie]

I bet your the sort of person who has to have their towls hanging at exactly
nintey degrees to the rail and gets all panicky if someone ruffles them.

Loosen up Richard, we all know you are the expert here.

 

[Richard Grimes]

I bet your the sort of person who has to have their towls hanging at
exactly nintey degrees to the rail and gets all panicky if someone
ruffles them.

Loosen up Richard, we all know you are the expert here.

Thanks, its always nice to be told that

Richard

 

[Phill]

MrNewbie I don't see much difference between MSIL coding and C#, other thant
he syntax is similar to C++ which I also disliked. The other factor is that
if I larn C# I will also be expected to learn MSIL to grasp the top end of
being a C# developer, so why not just learn MSIL. The only issue for me at
the moment is the resources for MSIL as Microsoft seem to not want to allow
this level to be promoted in the mainstream.

I bet your the sort of person who has to have their towls hanging at
exactly nintey degrees to the rail and gets all panicky if someone ruffles
them.

Loosen up Richard, we all know you are the expert here.

 

[Mr Newbie]

Incorrect. MSIL is sympomatic of the design of .NET. The reason we have this
intermediate language is so that top level language coders can design in
their language of choice and that there is interoperability between them + a
few other things.

The .NET Designers never intended you to learn MSIL in oder to code in it
otherwise you would have had an MSIL environment to work in.

Further, if you lean C# you are not expected to understand MSIL. There are
millions of C# coders who never need to dip into it.

--
Best Regards

The Inimitable Mr Newbie º¿º

MrNewbie I don't see much difference between MSIL coding and C#, other
thant he syntax is similar to C++ which I also disliked. The other factor
is that if I larn C# I will also be expected to learn MSIL to grasp the
top end of being a C# developer, so why not just learn MSIL. The only
issue for me at the moment is the resources for MSIL as Microsoft seem to
not want to allow this level to be promoted in the mainstream.

 

[CT]

The other factor is that if I larn C# I will also be expected to learn

MSIL to grasp the top end of being a C# developer, so why not just learn
MSIL.

So, instead of learning C++, you'd learn Assembly language?

 

[Kevin Spencer]

I might add that I too have been interested in learning MSIL, but not for
directly practical reasons. By learning it, I hope to gain a better
understanding of how the Framework works, what goes on inside some of the
CLR assemblies, and indirectly improve my own programming skills.

I must admit, however, that it is not at the top of my "TODO" list, and I
may never have the time to get around to it!

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Complex things are made up of
Lots of simple things.

 

[Mr Newbie]

I agree, it's more of targeted requriement rather than a general one.
Having said that, in my breif encounters with MSIL, I have found no problem
whatsoever in interpreting the code along with the documentation. There have
been isolated incidents when it has given me an insight into the way things
work, but there are not many.

 

[Phill]

Yes, actually I already know x86 assembly.

Another factor is that if I master MSIL then I can get on any computer with
a framework and program. You guys will need the next level ups to be
present. Also I could monitor the JIT threads and see what's happening or
modify, where you lot have to rewrite the inital program and kick start it
up again.

MSIL is fairly simply in its construct. Anything you can do in C# or the
other Net languages, you can do in MSIL, but you have more of an open scope.

 

[CT]

Phil,

I'm not arguing against the potential advantage of knowing MSIL; I'm merely
advocating against this claim:

The other factor is that if I larn C# I will also be expected to learn
MSIL

That seems a bit extreme, although I obviosuly don't know your employment
details ;-)

 

[Patrice]

Actually the compilers for both VB.NET and C# are part of the framework...

Regarding the original question, VS.NET doesn't have (and likely will never
have) support for coding directly using MSIL...

You could write your own IDE - using MSIL of course ;-)

 

[Phill]

I already have an IDE for MSIL. I was wanting ongoing support within VS2005
and other Microsoft development areas.

As Lau Lei's reply said, a schema, is the answer and I agree. Other than
Kevin Spencer's, and Lau Lei's replies, the other posts were a waste of time
and to some degree off subject. Other's shouldn't be concerned if I am so
called taking a harder road, so to speak. If you haven't got the answers or
a good word to say then don't reply.

I'm not interested in C# or other high forms of MSIL, to me they are a waste
of time due to me not having a need to be employed by those that ask for it
and that I have zero difficulty coding in MSIL.

 

[Mr Newbie]

Thanks for your vote of confidence. However, we only have your best
interests at heart and we are trying to persaude you that you are probably
wasting your time.

However, feel free to invest your time in this eneavour if you wish. You
obviously have more time on your hands than most of us. I wonder where its
priority would be if someone gave you a contract with C#.

--
Best Regards

The Inimitable Mr Newbie º¿º

I already have an IDE for MSIL. I was wanting ongoing support within
VS2005 and other Microsoft development areas.

As Lau Lei's reply said, a schema, is the answer and I agree. Other than
Kevin Spencer's, and Lau Lei's replies, the other posts were a waste of
time and to some degree off subject. Other's shouldn't be concerned if I
am so called taking a harder road, so to speak. If you haven't got the
answers or a good word to say then don't reply.

I'm not interested in C# or other high forms of MSIL, to me they are a
waste of time due to me not having a need to be employed by those that ask
for it and that I have zero difficulty coding in MSIL.

 

[Lloyd Dupont]

Yeah, I wonder where he found a MSIL job ?!
That said I think ot would be cool if you managed C++ supported embeded MSIL
much the same way plain C++ support ASM...

 

[Patrice]

Hi Phill,

I thought it might be interesting to note (especially for others that might
read the thread) that compilers are indeed part of the framework.

Being more specific on what kind of additional support you are looking into
VS.NET ("ongoing" support is a bit vague) would likely help to move this
thread from a general discussion about the interest of directly coding using
MSIL to a more focused thread as you wish...

Now you have an IDE (I thought you didn't find one) but I still don't really
see what kind of support you are looking exactly in VS.NET. Can you give a
specific example of what support you would like in VS.NET ? Anyway you'll
likely have to get (or even perhaps create) the pieces yourself as IMO
VS.NET will never support MSIL coding out of the box.

I remember to have seen some tools lately but AFAIK they are all working on
previously genereated MSIL code. In particular I believe I saw that MS has
something that allows to plug into the JIT compilation process. Is this the
kind of thing you are looking for ? You could also try the VS.NET
extensibility group. It might well allows to add an add-in that would allow
to edit whatever format the file is using exactly as VS.NET can handle ASPX,
..CONFIG or XML Files...

--
Patrice

I already have an IDE for MSIL. I was wanting ongoing support within VS2005
and other Microsoft development areas.

As Lau Lei's reply said, a schema, is the answer and I agree. Other than
Kevin Spencer's, and Lau Lei's replies, the other posts were a waste of time
and to some degree off subject. Other's shouldn't be concerned if I am so
called taking a harder road, so to speak. If you haven't got the answers or
a good word to say then don't reply.

I'm not interested in C# or other high forms of MSIL, to me they are a waste
of time due to me not having a need to be employed by those that ask for it
and that I have zero difficulty coding in MSIL.

 

[Lloyd Dupont]

Being more specific on what kind of additional support you are looking

into

I believe he means Intellisense.

 

[Mr Newbie]

Or intellisenseless ?