WHY

[Guest]

why is it that people like Excel so much?

I hate it with a passion-- it's like-- my job for the past 4 ot 6 years..
has to been to run around and fix 'excel messes'... automate such and such
excel report

it's like-- if you guys would just stop using excel-- treat it as a drug--
and start doing stuff in Access-- this world would be a much more efficient
world.

it's like-- people _never_ have clean data in Excel... there is no
validation.. people use it for data entry; and keeping track of stuff--

and it just boggles my mind that people use this POS program for reporting.
I mean-- it isn't a reporting tool. It isn't in the same league as Access
and Crystal Reports.

It's like Access can automate what Excel people do; and then you won't get
stuck writing the same report every week.

Why don't more poeple hate Excel like I do?

I just am frustrated.. because I've seen enough Excel in my life that it
makes me sick.. It really is a drug, or a disease..
And when I grow up; and I'm in charge of an IT department.. the first thing
that I'm going to do is to Uninstall Excel from _EVERYONE's_ machine and
start with the basics.

It's all about reusability-- and I dont see excel having any.

And I just want to know why is it that poeple think that using Excel for
reporting is an acceptable route?
It's like a travesty-- 50% of all people in the modern workplace-- all they
do is make the same report in Excel; week in and week out.
and I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't try to really help these people
to use their time more efficiently. It's not about needing sharepoint-- i
dont need sharepoint to help me to track my spreadsheets-- that makes the
problem worse.

Aaron

 

[W. D. Allen Sr.]

"...all they do is make the same report in Excel; week in and week out...."

If they didn't they would be out of a job otherwise!

WDA

end

 

[Harald Staff]

Hi Aaron

Excel is a spreadsheet application. Access is a database application. People
can use both applications in inefficient ways, which is neither the
applications' nor the application makers' fault. I wonder why you are given
the task of cleaning up "Excel messes", you don't sound like a qualified
Excel user -no harm intended.

Best wishes Harald

 

[Nick Hodge]

Aaron

Some interesting thoughts and many quite valid. People do blindly use Excel
for things it really isn't made for, but when you have a tool which, for
most users is quite intuitive, they will automatically try to move to it.
I've seen photo albums held in Excel and have a financial controller who
finds Access daunting as it's interface for the standard user is just not
intuitive.

On the specific point of reports. I use an Excel front end to summarise over
250,000 records into a pivot table. The data comes from an Access database
which is updated each week and takes around 3-4 minutes with no user
intervention.

It has multiple row and column fields a series of charts and with about an
hours training is used throughout my organisation for everyone's needs from
Finance through Marketing to Sales and Logistics by the user simply
dragging and dropping fields.

The data is accessible and graphically presented to even the most reluctant
user with ease. None of which could be claimed for Access alone

I love both tools, but then I love data!

--
HTH
Nick Hodge
Microsoft MVP - Excel
Southampton, England
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Guest]

and I do pivot Tables against a billion records thru OLAP; and I still hate
excel

 

[Guest]

Access forms and reports are DEFINITELY easier to use for an end-user.

I mean-- there isn't a question in my mind; that i can hire someone for
$6/hour and have them type stuff into an Access database; and it is
absolutley brainless.

you can _validate_ that the data is the correct datatype.

you give them buttons to go to other forms and reports..

I mean... I just don't understand why so many people use Excel.

 

[Guest]

And just for the record; I am a Excel power user-- I've written macros for
years.. I've made the exact same spreadsheet 100 times.

And I had enough of that like 6 years ago-- it is _SO_ 1995 to do things
that way.

 

[Guest]

How is Access not intuitive? Can I get specifics, please?

I will work to get it changed.. I've been doing Access for so long my
fingers bleed DAO lol

I've tried to teach a dozen friends how to use Access over the years; and
they just dont understand it.. I just feel like maybe I need to get some
sort of professional trainer training-- aka how to be a trainer.

I've had a dozen friends that have been out of work these past 4 years.. and
they can't get a real job.. and trying to teach them Access just isn't
working.

Or what I really wish; is that there were college-level programs that
focused on Excel, for example..

Not accounting, not finance, not VBA-- Excel.

I would gladly take night-classes for a year if I could be an Excel Super
User-- I like a lot of thigns about Excel.. but I can't.. It just makes me
sick to think about being forced to type stuff in spreadsheets all day long.

I dont think that there are courses that are challenging enough in order to
be of any interest to me.

I mean--

I just dont get it

I would gladly take a course in excel; if it had real-world spreadsheets; of
real-world situations where poeple use Excel to report out of a database.

But it's not the best platform for the job.

They just need to make a whole family of certifications for Excel power
users; I think...

I think that would help these people to grow-- because as it is; i just see
a whole bunch of Excel novices that throw numbers around and cut and paste..
i mean-- i don't think that very many excel people are that skilled at it--
i mean; there aren't that many people using Lookups and stuff-- its just
like copy and paste; or referring to other cells..

I mean-- 3 or 4 certifications-- from entry level to advanced users to
developers..

 

[Guest]

I just think that it's funny that managers-- people in charge-- don't
understand that there are more efficient ways to do things.

It's like the managers themselves are to egocentric to go out and try new
things.

and because of that; are companies are inefficient.. i know that excel is a
lot better than the old fashioned way to do things.. I just can't believe
that there are still people out there using this program..

I mean-- what are you going to do when you hit the 64k limit LoL

 

[=?windows-1252?Q?=D8yvind_Segrov?=]

And just for the record; I am a Excel power user-- I've written macros for
years.. I've made the exact same spreadsheet 100 times.

may i recommend looking for a different job? It is not good to keep on
doing things that you dislike.

I did’nt like windows, and became a graphic designer, so i could start
using a mac instead. It’s dead simple.

Anyway, good luck with you career whatever you might choose to be.

 

[Nick Hodge]

Aaron

So the real issue is the number of novice users that are using it for
purposes other than that for which it is intended. Well...stick around and
make a difference. Daily I am trying in my small way to make users more
aware of it's uses.

Look at some of the real clever stuff being done in Excel and you will see
it's versatility and why many people use it in place of the correct tool for
databases, when that is what thy really need for the application they are
using.

I interview probably once a week for staff where a command of Office is
hoped for. 10 out of 10 will profess to be able to use Word to an
intermediate level, 7 out of 10 Excel and 1 or maybe 2 Access.

Intuitive...

Charts
Pivot tables - Crosstabs
DAP
Object Model (Access and Jet)
Reports (Assembly)

Naturally, I agree with you for many data projects, reports once built in
Access are great and repeatable. Not that easy to build though. The wizard
is OK but have you ever had it build a report that could be used straight
away, without resizing, re-positioning. Don't get me wrong, I love Access
too. It complexity gets some things done that cannot be achieved it Excel,
but that complexity drives some users to the hills. The same complexity,
that in 1994 drove me back from Excel 5 to Works 2!!

I don't know the numbers but MS would probably sell 10-1 copies of
Excel-Access. You could make the Office Standard/Pro argument (Not in Pro),
but I suspect that there are even more installed, but unused editions of
Access than sales would show and I am sure that Office Standard would not
exclude Access is MS marketing felt it was a seller/user on more desktops.

I admire you defence of the product (Access, etc), but find an out an out
hatred of a very popular product the people who use it a little over the
top.

Anyhow...we're probably not far apart. The right tool for the right job, but
I still get great pleasure out of seeing users beam when shown a VLOOKUP or
pivot table...if that makes me 'sad'...I concede ;-)

--
HTH
Nick Hodge
Microsoft MVP - Excel
Southampton, England
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Nick Hodge]

Aaron

Why would you want to use 65k rows...isn't that what databases, like Access
are for?

--
HTH
Nick Hodge
Microsoft MVP - Excel
Southampton, England
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Bill Sharpe]

If I had a billion records to worry about I would hate Excel too! But
Excel works well for hundreds or even small thousands worth of records.
It's got validation, too, if you care to use it.

Bill

and I do pivot Tables against a billion records thru OLAP; and I still
hate
excel

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Why don't more poeple hate Excel like I do?

Because it's a tool they know how to use.

What I wonder is why people use the POS application Access when there
are so many better database apps out there...<g>

But it's the same reason - they learned to use it, and it does what
they're willing to spend their time and money on.

If you REALLY want to change things in your company, write an Access app
that replaces the XL workbooks they use now, and demonstrate its
superiority, both in function and in cost. Be sure to include the cost
of retraining. If you can show a net efficiency, you may make some
headway.

 

[Harald Staff]

may i recommend looking for a different job? It is not good to keep on
doing things that you dislike.

I was goind to suggest a simple vacation <g>

If bad use of avaliable technology gets to you this bad, Aaron, then Øyvind
is right, you shouldn't do this. Many of us, possibly including you, make a
living from improving scenarios like what you describe. If you hate it,
don't. Simple as that.

And as you know, and be sure Microsoft also does; it's far easier to change
technology than to change people's work habits. That battle was lost before
it started, and uninstalling Excel is the stupidest suggested solution to it
I've ever seen, pardon my norwegian.

Best wishes Harald

 

[Bill Sharpe]

Excel is not a database, although it can handle smaller flat-file
databases easily. Get into relational databases or a large number of
records and you will run into problems with Excel. A lot of people use
Excel because they don't have Access on their computers. And Access
isn't that easy to use -- FileMaker Pro is much more user-friendly.

I have taught Word, Excel, and Access in an introductory computer class.
Students can start typing immediately in Word or start filling in cells
directly in Excel. But they have to go through the steps of creating a
new database to get started in Access.
Bill

How is Access not intuitive? Can I get specifics, please?

I will work to get it changed.. I've been doing Access for so long my
fingers bleed DAO lol

I've tried to teach a dozen friends how to use Access over the years;
and
they just dont understand it.. I just feel like maybe I need to get some
sort of professional trainer training-- aka how to be a trainer.

I've had a dozen friends that have been out of work these past 4 years..
and
they can't get a real job.. and trying to teach them Access just isn't
working.

Or what I really wish; is that there were college-level programs that
focused on Excel, for example..

Not accounting, not finance, not VBA-- Excel.

I would gladly take night-classes for a year if I could be an Excel
Super
User-- I like a lot of thigns about Excel.. but I can't.. It just makes
me
sick to think about being forced to type stuff in spreadsheets all day
long.

I dont think that there are courses that are challenging enough in order
to
be of any interest to me.

I mean--

I just dont get it

I would gladly take a course in excel; if it had real-world
spreadsheets; of
real-world situations where poeple use Excel to report out of a
database.

But it's not the best platform for the job.

They just need to make a whole family of certifications for Excel power
users; I think...

I think that would help these people to grow-- because as it is; i just
see
a whole bunch of Excel novices that throw numbers around and cut and
paste..
i mean-- i don't think that very many excel people are that skilled at
it--
i mean; there aren't that many people using Lookups and stuff-- its just
like copy and paste; or referring to other cells..

I mean-- 3 or 4 certifications-- from entry level to advanced users to
developers..

 

[Ken Wright]

Horses for courses. Times Excel is best and times Access is best, although many
will claim you should use a 'real' database as opposed to Access. Either way
each have their strengths and weaknesses and to blindly ignore one in favour of
the other for any reason whatosever is ridiculous.

 

[Guest]

Well then let us hound microsoft to make Access easier to use than
Filemaker..

I know you can go and start typing stuff in in access.. it's like one of the
options when you start a new table

all i know is that i was working as a video game tester 7 years ago; and
there were 30 of us that had to write queries in a database in order to look
for duplicate bugs.. i know that all 30 of us learned it without fail in
about 2 hours. We could all write queries; using wizards; schedule a bunch
of queries using macros.. its' like childs play..

it just seems like that would be in the best interest of 90% of the worlds
computer users-- sit everyone down and spend 2 hours how to use access..

i just love how easy it is to use.. it is powerful.. i mean--

excel just won't work for reporting out of a database.. and access is too
hard to learn

so you guys think that microsoft should include access as a part of the
standard edition of office?

would that help??

i just know that excel is a disease; and i want to know why more people have
that sneer in their voice when they say 'oh, you mean microsoft access?'

i wish that microsoft would do something about their marketing problem

it's like access and excel are lovers.. some prefer the men; some like the
women.. thats your perogative.. but i for one; refuse to spend all day long
in a girly-man program

i just am one that realizes the efficiences that are available in my office
suite.

and i wish that microsoft would make acceess sexy again.

that's microsoft's problem in the database market--- they are pigeonholed
into a marketing problem with access; and SQL Server rocks-- but Microsoft
doesn't deliver a consistent marketing images that say 'databases are sexy;
here are our offerings'

microsoft has a marketing problem in access and that's why they're not more
successful in the database market.. is because all the excel people sneer
at Access.

 

[Gord Dibben]

At least Excel has a spell-checker.

Gord Dibben Excel MVP

 

[Guest]

Access has a spell checker; doesn't it?

At least Excel has a spell-checker.

Gord Dibben Excel MVP