Why should so much tweaking be necessary?

L

Lois G.

Strictly a rhetorical question, I guess....

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't help but feel that things should have
gotten easier with the evolvement of computers, rather than the other way
around.

I'm not new to computers, just new to XP. I mistakenly thought I'd be able
to hook up and go, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Here we have a
whole host of newsgroups dealing with every specific issue, and web sites
devoted to fixes, tweaks, upgrades, etc.

We have to re-educate ourselves, ask questions and read volumes just to be
able to perform 'simpl' tasks on our computers.

Lois
 
R

Richard Urban

When new gadgets, accessories and luxuries are added to an automobile do you
not have to re-educate yourself in their correct and proper usage?

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :)

If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
S

Santa

Richard said:
When new gadgets, accessories and luxuries are added to an automobile do you
not have to re-educate yourself in their correct and proper usage?


Thats why I still Have an OLD 1989 Vehicle.. Those NEW gadgets are
un-necessary.. just more money for the manufactures.. no sence of
BUYING something That HAS GADGETS that you DONNOT need
 
D

D.Currie

Lois G. said:
Strictly a rhetorical question, I guess....

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't help but feel that things should
have gotten easier with the evolvement of computers, rather than the other
way around.

I'm not new to computers, just new to XP. I mistakenly thought I'd be able
to hook up and go, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Here we have a
whole host of newsgroups dealing with every specific issue, and web sites
devoted to fixes, tweaks, upgrades, etc.

We have to re-educate ourselves, ask questions and read volumes just to be
able to perform 'simpl' tasks on our computers.

Lois

Depends on what you mean by "tweaking" but by my definition, no, you really
don't need to fiddle with a lot of settings to be up and running. Of course
it also depends on the programs you're running and what you want to
accomplish. But the operating system doesn't need much from you at all. On
the other hand, you can spend hours playing with colors, screensavers,
backgrounds, sound schemes, etc., none of which are necessary. Things like
system updates have become more automated, so that's become easier. And
Windows "help" files have become a lot better. Some things are done a bit
differently, but I don't think they've become more difficult at all.

Consider the telephone. Way back when, you picked it up and told the
operator who to connect you with. A cell phone nowadays has a lot of buttons
and gadgets. It has the same basic function -- to call somebody -- but a new
phone includes a lot of functions that never existed before, so there's some
learning curve.

Some people tweak because they like to. And people have different learning
styles. Some are comfortable with the idea of clicking buttons and figuring
out how to do things, while others want detailed instructions and
explanations.
 
G

ggull

Ah, but that's the difference -- when a new gadget, say a satellite tracking
system, is put in a fancy new car, the steering wheel still turns left and
right the way it used to, you don't have to relearn how to open and close
the door, etc. You generally have to only learn to use the ADDED
capabilities .. even if you have remote entry, you can choose not to use it
and use the key. The problem, as Lois G. points out, is that one has to
relearn to drive from the very basics with each new updated operating
system. All of sudden the gear shift has moved behind the driver's seat and
it's a rotary dial instead of a stick, and you have to hold in the cigarette
lighter before it works. The real problem is that this stuff is all
designed by people whose very lives revolve around computers, and
specifically Windows, using state of the art hardware, and unlike auto
manufacturers no one seems to have checked in with ordinary drivers/users
(as opposed to racing buffs or heads of corporate systems departments).

There is also the problem that it takes education and expertise to do simple
things simply and to stay out of trouble, although things are getting
somewhat better -- e.g., computers ship with the system settings wide open
to vulnarabilites, and to make them secure the user has to restrict browser
and email settings (or get other software), install virus and firewall, etc.
Rationally, the DEFAULT would be for secure systems, allowing the user to
open them up for specific purposes as they gain an idea of what they're
doing and (hopefully) the dangers involved.
 
R

Richard Urban

Yeah! Right!

And I remember when my Grandfather broke off the ignition key in his Rambler
because he didn't read that the car had a PUSH BUTTON transmission and you
had to push one of the buttons to start the engine!

You have to learn and re-educate yourself to the technology!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :)

If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
V

_Vanguard_

ggull said:
Ah, but that's the difference -- when a new gadget, say a satellite
tracking
system, is put in a fancy new car, the steering wheel still turns left
and
right the way it used to, you don't have to relearn how to open and
close
the door, etc. You generally have to only learn to use the ADDED
capabilities .. even if you have remote entry, you can choose not to
use it
and use the key. The problem, as Lois G. points out, is that one has
to
relearn to drive from the very basics with each new updated operating
system. All of sudden the gear shift has moved behind the driver's
seat and
it's a rotary dial instead of a stick, and you have to hold in the
cigarette
lighter before it works.

Excuse me, but when you switch to driving a different car that you've
never been in before, you're going to have to learn where all that stuff
is and how it works which will very likely have some differences in
their operation. Your car was an automatic but the new one is a manual,
so now you get to figure out how to share one foot between two pedals
and learn how to shift while clutching (not everyone wants automatics,
by the way). Or you switch the other way around and replace a manual
with an automatic and then don't get the control you were used to as to
when the car shifts or how much torque you have at what speed. Your old
one had separate knobs on the dash for headlights, wipers, and whatnot
and the cruise control had buttons embedded in the center of the
steering column, but that new car has it all on a pair of 20-function
stalks sticking out of the steering column. Your old one has easy to
use heat-A/C controls with just sliders and a few push buttons but now
the new one is digital and programmable with front and rear sensors.
Your windshield-mounted compass got replaced by a GPS unit. And the
differences go on. So your car analogy is a poor one. Of course when
you go to a different car then you're going to have to learn all the
differences. Even the steering wheel might take some relearning; else,
you're driving down the street and all of a sudden it falls down to your
knees because you didn't tighten up the tilt angle adjust knob, plus it
might now be power steering instead of manual, and the turn rate isn't
linear at all speeds because the wheels now rotate faster at slower
speeds, and so on. So even steering might not be so globally constant
as you would like to claim.

Some folks learn a trade and then don't have to learn much of anything
new thereafter. They're lazy. It's comfortable for them. Once they're
out of school they don't want to go back or do anymore learning. It
hurts, aaahhh, poor boy. Folks usually get new cars and computers not
because they really need them but because they've been convinced,
usually by someone else, that they need them. Need and want are not the
same thing. You really need that 3GHz P4, 2GB PC3700 RAM, three 300GB
hard disks in RAID-5, Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro sound card, gigabit NIC,
$800 3Dlabs Wildcat video card, and overpriced large-sized LCD monitor
just to use a word processor to write your résumé (because you need a
better paying job to offset your lavish needs for unnecessary hardware
and software)?
The real problem is that this stuff is all
designed by people whose very lives revolve around computers, and
specifically Windows, using state of the art hardware, and unlike auto
manufacturers no one seems to have checked in with ordinary
drivers/users
(as opposed to racing buffs or heads of corporate systems
departments).

You are in the group of users that would like computers to fall into the
category of an appliance, like their dishwasher. Ain't going to happen,
unless what you want is a non-programmable calculator or a
specific-purpose computer. So stop buying general-purpose computers.
There is also the problem that it takes education and expertise to do
simple
things simply and to stay out of trouble, although things are getting
somewhat better -- e.g., computers ship with the system settings wide
open
to vulnarabilites, and to make them secure the user has to restrict
browser
and email settings (or get other software), install virus and
firewall, etc.
Rationally, the DEFAULT would be for secure systems, allowing the user
to
open them up for specific purposes as they gain an idea of what
they're
doing and (hopefully) the dangers involved.

And, of course, when we buy that new muscle car with the 300HP power
plant we certainly would never want to use all of that power and want
the manufacturer to give us instead a "safe" version muscle car that
peaks out at 65 mph and doesn't accelerate too fast. It is a
GENERAL-purpose computer. That means the user ultimately gets to define
how THEY use and configure that platform. Your complaint is that users
don't educate themselves before using something that they're not
equipped to handle. What happens when you put a shotgun in the hands of
a 4-year old? Duh! Just because a computer can be put into the hands
of an idiot doesn't mean the computer should be designed for use by that
idiot. You train to be a doctor so you don't have to learn-on-the-fly.
Why are computers any different than anything else you train for? You
go buy a car and as a complete idiot then think you should be
disassembling the engine to replace the lifters without risk based on
your uneducated actions just because a car got put into your hands?
Eventually you have to treat users as the adults they're supposed to be
rather than the children they choose to be.

Excuse me, but don't go blaming the deficiencies of the OS based on it
not providing anti-virus software, anti-spyware scanners, trojan and
root kit scanners, intrusion protection system (IDS) software, choking
the hell out of the available features of the software, and all that
crap that may be needed because there are nasty people in the world
along with users whose only qualification for owning a computer is that
they can fork over the money for one. Gee, I got the money so were do I
go buy that space shuttle? Weeeeee, crash! Would you want to pay all
the extra money for bullet-proof glass and reinforced steel sheeting
with the incumbent loss of gas mileage and reduced at-the-wheel
horsepower just to protect you against the potential of looters and
criminals shooting at you as you drive by? You buy the car. It's your
choice to add the rollbar, 5-point harness, explosion-proof fuel cell,
bullet proofing, and whatever you deem that YOU want on YOUR particular
GENERAL-purpose computer to flavor it the way YOU like. I want
something different for mine.

Your solution is to take away choice, reduce functionality based on the
lowest common denominator (i.e., idiot users), and put a dozen condoms
on the user to protect themself from screwing themself. With your
description of the perfect computer, I would have to spend lots of time
getting rid of all that crap to get ALL of what I paid for.

Burn and learn.
That's life.
Pain motivates.
Time to leave the womb.
Welcome to the real world.
 
V

_Vanguard_

Lois G. said:
Strictly a rhetorical question, I guess....

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't help but feel that things
should have gotten easier with the evolvement of computers, rather
than the other way around.

The mantra of a non-user. Computer are not to make your life easier.
They are to maintain or raise your level of frustration - just like
having kids.
I'm not new to computers, just new to XP. I mistakenly thought I'd be
able to hook up and go, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Here we
have a whole host of newsgroups dealing with every specific issue, and
web sites devoted to fixes, tweaks, upgrades, etc.

We have to re-educate ourselves, ask questions and read volumes just
to be able to perform 'simpl' tasks on our computers.


In reply to the topic of your post (rather than its content), you could
always pay someone to do all that tweaking for you if you could
adequately describe just exactly what you wanted in a computer and
operating system. It is a general-purpose computer, not a fixed-feature
dishwasher. Ignorance and laziness, especially when deliberate, always
have their cost.
 
R

Robert Moir

Lois said:
Strictly a rhetorical question, I guess....

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I can't help but feel that things
should have gotten easier with the evolvement of computers, rather
than the other way around.

I'm not new to computers, just new to XP. I mistakenly thought I'd be
able to hook up and go, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Here we
have a whole host of newsgroups dealing with every specific issue,
and web sites devoted to fixes, tweaks, upgrades, etc.

For fixes and tweaks - one doesn't have to do things that way. Buy a
computer from Dell or suchlike and it will work out of the box, no tweaks
required. Around these parts they'll even install it for you, for a fee.
There is of course much room for improvement, but you know, its there, it
exists, it works this way.

Beyond that, some people tweak "because they can" or because they don't like
things quite the way they are and want to change them, or because they want
to make a good thing even better.

Cars are something that you can - with a moderate amount of training and
practice - "just drive" but still, there is a very large market in
"upgrades, tweaks and fixes" for popular cars - for those that want it.
Others, like me, who regard cars as a simple method of getting around don't
have to spend time and effort tweaking if we're happy with things how they
are - though we do need to spend some time performing "service" tasks such
as refueling, checking the tires and oil and water.

Whats the difference? Because I don't see people make the same complaint
about cars that you do about computers.

--
--
Rob Moir, Microsoft MVP for servers & security
Website - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk
Virtual PC 2004 FAQ - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/VirtualPC2004FAQ.html

Kazaa - Software update services for your Viruses and Spyware.
 
G

Guest

Robert Moir said:
For fixes and tweaks - one doesn't have to do things that way. Buy a
computer from Dell or suchlike and it will work out of the box, no tweaks
required. Around these parts they'll even install it for you, for a fee.
There is of course much room for improvement, but you know, its there, it
exists, it works this way.

Beyond that, some people tweak "because they can" or because they don't like
things quite the way they are and want to change them, or because they want
to make a good thing even better.

Cars are something that you can - with a moderate amount of training and
practice - "just drive" but still, there is a very large market in
"upgrades, tweaks and fixes" for popular cars - for those that want it.
Others, like me, who regard cars as a simple method of getting around don't
have to spend time and effort tweaking if we're happy with things how they
are - though we do need to spend some time performing "service" tasks such
as refueling, checking the tires and oil and water.

Whats the difference? Because I don't see people make the same complaint
about cars that you do about computers.

--
--
Rob Moir, Microsoft MVP for servers & security
Website - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk
Virtual PC 2004 FAQ - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/VirtualPC2004FAQ.html

Kazaa - Software update services for your Viruses and Spyware.
I three years of helping almost 250 of our computer Club members, I find
that the ones the tweak are the most likely to need help. This also makes it
more difficult to figure out how they have messed up. When asked, they always
answer that they were trying to make it "better?" The tweaks sometimes
squeaks.

As with ice cream, vanilla is best.

My tweaks?
1. Setting the start menu to the Classic version.
2. Installing the Firefox Browser and having it be the default browser. I
have installed no extensions. I read this morning that one person had
installed 33 and another 56!
 
L

Lois G.

_Vanguard_ said:
Excuse me, but don't go blaming the deficiencies of the OS based on it not
providing anti-virus software, anti-spyware scanners, trojan and root kit
scanners, intrusion protection system (IDS) software, choking the hell out
of the available features of the software, and all that crap that may be
needed because there are nasty people in the world along with users whose
only qualification for owning a computer is that they can fork over the
money for one. Gee, I got the money so were do I go buy that space
shuttle? Weeeeee, crash! Would you want to pay all the extra money for
bullet-proof glass and reinforced steel sheeting with the incumbent loss
of gas mileage and reduced at-the-wheel horsepower just to protect you
against the potential of looters and criminals shooting at you as you
drive by? You buy the car. It's your choice to add the rollbar, 5-point
harness, explosion-proof fuel cell, bullet proofing, and whatever you deem
that YOU want on YOUR particular GENERAL-purpose computer to flavor it the
way YOU like. I want something different for mine.


I have to differ with you here, unless I'm wrong, but when shopping for a
new computer, I didn't see any choices in operating systems (unless I wanted
a MAC) other than XP Home or XP Professional.

Lois
 
G

Guest

I get upset that there is no instruction manuel with a computer. Why can't
all of the programs that are running in the background be documented with
clear instructions of what can be removed?

How many programs are only available from the "RUN" command with no
documentation.
 
J

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

Full documentation in print would take far more space than your entire
computer system...even if your tower and monitor were large.
That would add quite a bit of cost to the computer when in the past most
never touched the books since the pile was intimidating..

Or would you rather have all the information online?
Start/Help and Support...most of it is there.
Open almost any program and click Help on the top toolbar...most of what you
need to know about the specific program is there.
Something still missing?
Try Google, newsgroups or any of an almost unlimited sources.
 
T

Tom Pepper Willett

And, your old 1989 vehicle cannot spell check or give you proper grammar
information!
|
| Thats why I still Have an OLD 1989 Vehicle.. Those NEW gadgets are
| un-necessary.. just more money for the manufactures.. no sence of
| BUYING something That HAS GADGETS that you DONNOT need
|
| >
 
V

Vanguard

Lois G. said:
I have to differ with you here, unless I'm wrong, but when shopping
for a new computer, I didn't see any choices in operating systems
(unless I wanted a MAC) other than XP Home or XP Professional.

Lois


Well, what operating system did you expect to find at a retail store?
The largest selling one or one they couldn't make a dime on? You often
see what you expect to see. Since you were out shopping for Windows
platforms than that is what you saw because you limited where you went
to go see.
 
G

Guest

What I am asking for is just a list of available programs and what they do.
If you don't even know that a program exists how can you ask for info. For
example how would I know that REGEDIT and MSCONFIG exist if I had not seen it
mentioned in many newsgroups. There are instructions but you must search for
them to find them.
 
R

Robert Moir

Chuck said:
As with ice cream, vanilla is best.

Sometimes - I find a few well thought out changes really can improve things
for me on a personal level., there has to be some limits though.
My tweaks?
1. Setting the start menu to the Classic version.
2. Installing the Firefox Browser and having it be the default
browser. I have installed no extensions. I read this morning that one
person had installed 33 and another 56!

Another Firefox fan. I've steered clear of the extensions too. I've seen a
few that made me think "neat" but none, yet, that made me think "Gotta get
me some of that".
 
R

Robert Moir

Mickey said:
What I am asking for is just a list of available programs and what
they do. If you don't even know that a program exists how can you ask
for info. For example how would I know that REGEDIT and MSCONFIG
exist if I had not seen it mentioned in many newsgroups.

I just tried typing a description of what i would want to do if i needed
either of those programs (e.g. "Edit the registry") into the help system and
that worked.
There are
instructions but you must search for them to find them.

And if you had a massive expensive pile of paper with every possible
command, what it did, how to use it, when to use it, command switches,
instructions, etc then how would you not have to search for the bit of paper
you needed then? And do you really think that would be *easier*? What about
disabled users who can't easily manipulate massive manuals? What about
students, for example, in small dorm rooms who can't store all that stuff?


--
--
Rob Moir, Microsoft MVP for servers & security
Website - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk
Virtual PC 2004 FAQ - http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/VirtualPC2004FAQ.html

Kazaa - Software update services for your Viruses and Spyware.
 

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