Why is SP2 so big? It doesn't do much

[Dave C.]

button.

Well, try saving it as "text only".

I notice the smiley face. -Dave

 

[David Maynard]

Does that include the full OS?

Yes, of course.

Even so, it wouldn't equal a Linux CD with hundreds of applications,
including a full office suite, and GIMP. Especially not at the same
price. Linux ~with~ all the extras is a fraction of the cost of Windows
XP alone, without extras.

I didn't say it did. The point of discussion was whether Windows XP and
SP2, with all updates, would fill several CDs. It doesn't, when 'put together'.

 

[David Maynard]

David Maynard wrote:




It's easy enough for the typical user who only wants to browse the web,
enjoy porn/music and send/recieve email, right now. Those who use an OS
to easily create/view image/text documents of various flavors also have
everything they need, right now.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Even before one gets to any 'operational' issues they've first got to get
past which of the umpty dump dump bazillion versions to try and then what
the heck those umpty dump dump thousands of 'free programs' do and what the
cryptic names mean. And then 'root' and super user if they're to accomplish
almost anything.

Plus, I think you way underestimate the value to 'typical' users of wizards
and windows being more tightly integrated.

 

[David Maynard]

Yes, I know there are ways to tweak the open source apps. to match a
particular version of Office. But without a working PC *RUNNING* Microsoft
Office, you have no way of knowing if the software is working correctly
until it's too late. If you need to run Microsoft Office anyway, what's the
point of trying to coax linux to emulate it? Besides which, the typical
computer user wouldn't bother to even try, and therein lies the real
problem.

I wasn't talking about tweaking Open Source apps; I was talking about you
saying there was a problem from one version of MS Office to the other.
Trying to open a new doc in an ancient version might be a problem but I've
got docs going back to Word 2 for DOS and I never, in all the newer
versions, ran into any problems that I can remember. I can also open all
the Works 2 docs I've got, just as they were when I was using Works for DOS.

But linux really IS as easy as I suggest. Anybody comfortable with Windows
XP should find any recent linux distro a real breeze to both install and
operate. Note that's if their particular distro comes with all the software
they want pre-packaged. (I know there's still some software installation
headaches that need to be addressed).

I've GOT various Linux versions and I disagree that they're just as easy
for the 'typical' user, although they're certainly a lot better than just a
few years ago.

Last one I tried was Lindows 4.5 but it apparently doesn't understand the
display card in the test machine I put it on because all I got was a blank
screen after the initial boot. Gonna try it on another one when I get
around to it (I'm having more fun with the mini live CD distros at the
moment), but that's just one of the 'surprises' folks can run into.

OH, and it doesn't matter what GUI you want to use with linux. Last I
checked, there were only two major choices of GUI for linux (and some others
that the real geeks play around with). Of the two major ones, they both
operate identically, and they run each other's software seamlessly. From
memory, I believe the last major distribution I installed actually installed
BOTH GUI's by default, and then asked you to choose one to use at login. I
could bounce back and forth between the two if I wanted, but the one I used
(gnome) worked fine, so I stuck with that. And yes, I was running some KDE
apps. on that, no problems at all.

Maybe you didn't try enough things to discover some of the problems.

Before someone gets the wrong impression, I'm not a linux fanatic. I LIKE
linux, but I run Windows XP. Even if I wasn't "required" to run Windows for
telecommuting, I'd still run Windows XP. Eventually I'll be running linux
again. It might not happen until I retire, but it'll happen. Linux is just
too good to ignore indefinitely. And yes, I was dual booting linux and
windows for a while. I finally figured out that was a waste of time, as I
HAD to run windows but didn't have to run linux. Bouncing back and forth
constantly drove me nuts and Windows XP really isn't too evil, so I'm
running that exclusively now. -Dave

I like Linux but when I don't have time to 'play' and need to get something
done NOW I whip up one of the windows machines.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

How much space Linux uses on a CD is not relevant.
I was commenting to the WRONG information "Windows XP would fill
several CDs if you included SP1 all the patches"
Clearly a FALSE statement since it all fits on a single CD.
The other products are NOT part of the operating system.
Cost also has absolutely no bearing on the space used for the
operating system.
You keep bringing other irrelevant points to cloud the facts.

What you say may or may not be a fact in this post, but were clearly
WRONG in the post I originally responded.

Otherwise please explain this statement you made:
"Windows XP would fill several CDs if you included SP1 all the
patches"
Just because you may be incapable of placing Windows XP and all
current patches on a single CD, do not assume others can't.

Fortunately not all Linux users feel the need to misrepresent a
product to show the value of Linux.

 

[Aquila Deus]

And Aquila Deus is still having problems adjusting to his new
anti-hallucination drugs.

Prove your claims of SP2 containing Viruses,

Isn't windows itself a big virus?

adware or spyware.

Windows Update service.

I dare you to validate a single claim you have made.

Does sp2 make xp immune to all the viruses and spywares/adwares on Internet?

You can't, can you?

dude, I just did.

Shut up and crawl back into the hole you came out of.

You are a loser and a moron.
BWHAHAHAHA!!


Bobby

Is this pronounced as Bou-Bee or Bah-Bee?

 

[Aquila Deus]

It's called Mozilla. -Dave

But M$ should just replace IE with it.

 

[Harry]

OK, what can you do with SP2 that couldn't be done before? I've heard it
turns on the XP firewall which was always there, but you should WANT to turn
that one off anyway, if you have a decent firewall. I'm curious. What can
SP2 users do that I can't? (typing this on SP1a) -Dave

Read this for the background fixes made to XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;811113

 

[Don Taylor]

But linux really IS as easy as I suggest. Anybody comfortable with Windows
XP should find any recent linux distro a real breeze to both install and
operate.

....

One likely not representative data point.
Have an XP box with all my expensive licensed (math) software running
on it. A person I was working with suggested I try out Linux. That
seemed reasonable, I earned my money a couple of decades ago writing
code sitting inside of BSD Unix, I even did a bit of system
administration before the world went Windows and networking crazy.

So I built a little Linux box, stuck a Knoppix CD in it, and because
this was strictly a trial to see how things would go and because
some of the licensed software on the XP box doesn't want to be
disturbed, I thought I would try out this new-fangled Internet
Connection Sharing, using the XP box to connect to the net and let
the Linux box borrow access to the net through the XP box, the
bandwidth needed for the project software was very small but
absolutely essential. XP seemed to claim that this could work.

I had no idea the responses I would get from people when I had
problems with this and went looking for a little help. Without too
much trouble I got to the point where I could, sometimes, ping back
and forth between the two. But any attempt to get the Linux box
to reach the net failed. I borrowed a pile of books from the
library. No luck, borrowed more, searched the net, no luck. So I
politely asked a few questions of the Linux folks. Roughly the
response was that if I wanted them to come over and burn anything
I had that ever had any Microsoft on it and replace it all with
Linux then they would help, not otherwise. So I tried the opposite
side, and asked Microsoft folks. Roughly the response was that
they would help me burn the Linux stuff OR that they had no idea
how to do anything with Linux. I even offered to pay people. Nope.

I struggled trying to make this work, and not having any time to
spend on what I was really supposed to be doing, for three months.
Finally I told the person I was doing the work for that I was going
to abandon the project, sorry I couldn't help him but I quit. The
person who I was working with on the math project rewrote a bunch
of the code so we could run it without needing any networking at
all. I transfer data back and forth between the group of Linux
boxes using a floppy disk now.

 

[Jim]

Last one I tried was Lindows 4.5 but it apparently doesn't understand the
display card in the test machine I put it on because all I got was a blank
screen after the initial boot. Gonna try it on another one when I get
around to it (I'm having more fun with the mini live CD distros at the
moment), but that's just one of the 'surprises' folks can run into.

May I suggest you try Mandrake 10.0? I've experimented with several
Linux distros over the past couple years. The one aspect that really
sets Mandrake apart from the others is that they orient to the end
user. Very easy setup. The refinement will amaze you.

 

[David Maynard]

May I suggest you try Mandrake 10.0? I've experimented with several
Linux distros over the past couple years. The one aspect that really
sets Mandrake apart from the others is that they orient to the end
user. Very easy setup. The refinement will amaze you.

I've also used Mandrake and Redhat (and others). Lindows was just the last
one I popped in to see how someone trying to 'be like windows' handled it.

 

[Greg R]

To Aquila Deus
Bobby ask nonobaddog. Has a problem understanding people. If he
does not understand people he claims they are on drugs.

He accused my being on drugs as well. Had to tell him, my grammar
is bad at time due to my disability. A form of dyslexia. I will say
something if he gives incorrect information out. Other than that I
just ignore him.

He still didn’t get the message Symantec Ghost was acquired from
Binary Research Limited group.

He keep saying ghost was a Symantec/Norton product since it inception.
Symantec/Norton’s did not develop ghost. Binary Research did.

http://www.symantec.com/corporate/


Greg R

 

[Harry]

Isn't windows itself a big virus? ?????


Windows Update service.

Anonymous logging of downloads from Microsofts site. Its the same as a
website cookie. It does not log key strokes. It does not popup ads.

And its not compulsory. Updates can be downloaded without using this
service.

Does sp2 make xp immune to all the viruses and spywares/adwares on Internet?

So how does that validate your claim? Of course it doesnt make XP
immune, its an OS not an anti virus/anti spam/anti spyware product.

 

[Dave C.]

OK, what can you do with SP2 that couldn't be done before? I've heard it

Read this for the background fixes made to XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;811113

Good information. TONS of bug fixes. It's just odd that in years of
running Windows XP, I haven't experienced any of those specific issues. I
suspect if I did run into one of those bugs, I could find a better solution
than installing ~200MB of worthless software. -Dave

 

[Dave C.]

...

One likely not representative data point.
Have an XP box with all my expensive licensed (math) software running
on it. A person I was working with suggested I try out Linux. That
seemed reasonable, I earned my money a couple of decades ago writing
code sitting inside of BSD Unix, I even did a bit of system
administration before the world went Windows and networking crazy.

So I built a little Linux box, stuck a Knoppix CD in it, and because
this was strictly a trial to see how things would go and because
some of the licensed software on the XP box doesn't want to be
disturbed, I thought I would try out this new-fangled Internet
Connection Sharing, using the XP box to connect to the net and let
the Linux box borrow access to the net through the XP box,

(snip)

Yikes. I'm experienced with both operating systems, and that sounds like a
real nightmare. It's not always easy to get two Windows XP boxes to
cooperate for ICS, so I can imagine the headaches caused by one of the boxes
running linux. I haven't tried ICS on linux. My experience with broadband
and linux is that linux will configure itself for Internet access if it is
connected directly to the Internet or through a hardware router. I'm sorry
you had such a problem getting someone to try to help you with this issue.
I would have advised you to invest in a router. That has nothing to do with
linux in particular. It's just that a router is the best solution if you
need more than one computer of any kind connected to a single Internet
connection. On a side note, broadband downloads are faster in linux, in my
experience. -Dave

 

[ToolPackinMama]

How much space Linux uses on a CD is not relevant.
I was commenting to the WRONG information "Windows XP would fill
several CDs if you included SP1 all the patches"
Clearly a FALSE statement since it all fits on a single CD.

Well, the Linux OS also fts on a single CD. That other stuff is free
extras.

 

[David Maynard]

?????

Don't worry about it. That's just typical bash Microsoft babble and there's
no logic or meaning to it.

 

[Harry]

Good information. TONS of bug fixes. It's just odd that in years of
running Windows XP, I haven't experienced any of those specific issues. I
suspect if I did run into one of those bugs, I could find a better solution
than installing ~200MB of worthless software. -Dave

Considering the number of bugs fixed I would hardly call it worthless.
The 200Mb includes all the bugs, not just one, so I'd rather have them
all fixed than wait until I come across one.

If their was a chance the brakes on your car could fail, youd be
pretty keen to have then fixed! ...Or would you not bother, as youve
never had them fail before !?

 

[David Maynard]

(snip)

Yikes. I'm experienced with both operating systems, and that sounds like a
real nightmare. It's not always easy to get two Windows XP boxes to
cooperate for ICS, so I can imagine the headaches caused by one of the boxes
running linux.

'Technically' there's no difference: the ICS machine does NAT and you point
the client machines to it as the router. From the user's standpoint,
though, with Windows you make a client disk that automatically sets up the
client machines but you have to do it manually with Linux.

That's what I mean about Windows being more tightly integrated.

I haven't tried ICS on linux. My experience with broadband
and linux is that linux will configure itself for Internet access if it is
connected directly to the Internet or through a hardware router.

Almost any network aware O.S. will automatically accept DHCP configuration
as default (frankly, I don't know of any that won't but there's probably
SOME exception so I say almost). The trick, of course, is having DHCP set
up somewhere, or you have to do it manually.

Since he could ping the ICS box, but not get internet access, I'd guess
that he had a valid IP but didn't have the ICS machine's IP set as the
default gateway on the Linux box. Second problem is that the Linux
hosts.allow and hosts.deny configuration files default to blocking all
hosts/IPs.

To do windows file and printer sharing he'd then have to set up Samba,
which is a whole 'nother matter.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

That was never questioned by me.
It was just your statement "Windows XP would fill several CDs if you
included SP1 all the patches, and SP2,"

Again "That other stuff..." is irrelevant to the misinformation you
posted.

I suggest you learn the facts instead of misstate them as you have in
your eagerness to blindly promote what you think is best.
Because of your wrong statement, you have done nothing to promote your
point, instead you have given cause to question everything you say.