Why doesn't ATI build an HDTV AIW...?

[Some Guy]

Keep in mind that in only a bit over two years, the entire TV
broadcasting system that we have been using since before Pearl
Harboer was attacked (e.g. NTSC) will die.

That deadline will slip, garanteed.

But as it stands, what was decided will happen (if anything) to analog
cable? If I recall, the forced move to HDTV just applied to
over-the-air broadcasting.

 

[T Shadow]

I remember when Betamax fundies stood around and said "How could anyone
purchase and use SLP (Super Long Play or 3x mode) on a VHS deck. It is so
bad in picture quality." Well, they did - in mass, and all my videos I have
rented in the last 20 years are on VHS SLP mode, three movies per tape, and
I am copying them over to DVD. And I am damn glad to have them too $$$$$.

So now the fundies want to push HDTV as the ****---MUST HAVE---*** format to
view. With HDCP to stop you from making personal copies of what you
purchased and own.

God this makes me want to spit tacks every time I think of this. Most
people don't give a rats ass about the picture quality they are watching.
Have any idea how many people still use rabbit-ears to receive their off-air
TV? It's big. Ghosts, lines, and fuzzy - who cares.

It's the GOVERNMENT AND BIG BUSINESS that is pushing us over to HDTV, with
the cost of new TV's, tuners, DVD's, and what not. The consumer, by and
large, don't give a damn. It's also a big spectrum grab for the airwaves
that will be freed up.

Watch the FCC delay, again, the final, written in stone, must be, no more
delay, final date for ending current TV transmission. Why in the world
would I want to replace the brand-new 13" color TV I just paid $54.95 with a
$300.00 HDTV that does the same thing. Or a box that sets on top for
$50.00.

The people pushing this stuff get lost in the hype they live in. I don't
think the masses care all that much about HDTV. If the industry stumbles,
produces a product that is too hard to use, cost to much to use, or isn't
transparent enough, the consumer will not purchase it.

If it is mandatory for all current analogue TV transmission to stop by 2009,
then why are we still selling TV's that only receive this format? What
lunacy is this. If the FCC was serious about ending analogue TV
transmission, they need to STOP the sales of TV's for this format for at
lease 10 years in advance of the change over.

This whole HDTV, HDCP, is headed for a big train crash. (Maybe China will
declare war on us and we will embargo imports from them - wouldn't that put
a crimp in the works for us electronic junkies!)

I hope so. William.

In case you can't tell, this is an emotional topic for me - I want my free
TV, the way I want it, when I want it, how I want it, and don't turn off
features on the stuff I paid good money for to use either!

NTSC was born before me. I was too young to buy a color TV when they came
out. Can't imagine how you could think it wasn't time for a 60year old
standard with glaring scan lines and variable color to go. HDTV is not
mandated. Only DTV. all that's needed is a converter and you may be able to
get one free when the time comes. I'm watching HDTV now on my computer. Have
been for 2years+. Couldn't wait to get it. BTW, I can receive DTV from all
the networks with an antenna but cannot do that with analog.
Do you start your car with a key or a hand crank?
If China declares war on us we'll be shooting down their imports. Get a
grip.

 

[GMAN]

I have always had good luck with the AIW cards, and I've owned many
dozens of them, perhaps a hundred or more (going back to the original
cards in the mid 1990's).

The problem that's going to arise now is that the newer motherboards
only have 3 PCI slots on them, period. So using one of those for a
separate tuner will have more of an impact than it has in the past.

Dont buy the mATX boards. Get a standard ATX

 

[Bill]

Though I'm responding to your post Bill, my response is generic to all who
have responded so far.

Fwiw...I don't know how much board real estate would be required, but it
doesn't seem like it would be difficult to shoehorn an HDTV (NTSC, ATSC and
QAM) tuner and hardware MPEG encoder on a card. With hardware encoding, it
would now be compatible with MCE and other software packages, wouldn't tie
up a PCI or USB slot with an on-board tuner and although overkill, would
have the bandwidth advantage of PCI-E.

ATI wanted to go head to head in the gamer arena with Nvidia and thats
where they decided to put there resources. TV/multi media got hind
teat, then got no teat at all.

AMD will want those resources pointed towards intergrated graphics and
chipsets with future processors. I'll be mildly surprised if AMD/ATI
stays in the high end gamer arena with Nvidia.

Anyway, this is just thinking out loud, but I think a decent-sized market
for a card like that exists, especially if it worked with other software
packages. I currently have an AIW 9700 Pro in one of my boxes and I love
it...in spite of MMC. ;-)

I would be interested in knowing how many AIW cards sold every year.
Probably not as many as you think.

Bill

 

[William]

NTSC was born before me. I was too young to buy a color TV when they came
out. Can't imagine how you could think it wasn't time for a 60year old
standard with glaring scan lines and variable color to go. HDTV is not
mandated. Only DTV. all that's needed is a converter and you may be able
to
get one free when the time comes. I'm watching HDTV now on my computer.
Have
been for 2years+. Couldn't wait to get it. BTW, I can receive DTV from all
the networks with an antenna but cannot do that with analog.
Do you start your car with a key or a hand crank?
If China declares war on us we'll be shooting down their imports. Get a
grip.

I've been around HDTV sense the mid 80's, in medical presentations, computer
projectors, command and control centers, and as a member of the Society of
Motion Picture and Television Engineers. It's not HDTV I object to, it's
how it is being pushed onto us by big business and the FCC. Consumer be
dammed.

To many non-sequitures to cover, and the wrong place to do it.

You are a small minority. Enjoy.

William

 

[William]

That deadline will slip, garanteed.

But as it stands, what was decided will happen (if anything) to analog
cable? If I recall, the forced move to HDTV just applied to
over-the-air broadcasting.

That is correct, only over-the-air is dead. Have cable, then you are all
set.

If this doesn't show it for an airwave grab that it is, then I don't know
what would. I know it is childish to hope our representatives in Washington
DC (including the FCC) would represent the people that elect them, but, to
believe in this is foolishness. The fix is in.

 

[Barry Watzman]

I'd actually take a bet that the February 2009 date will not slip.

 

[Barry Watzman]

I think that cable firms are allowed to do whatever they want, but my
guess is that they will discontinue analog service as well, for the same
reason .... the spectrum space (even within a closed cable system) is
valuable. Any slots used for analog TV transmission can't be used for
anything else (whether it's digital TV, cable internet service, cable
phone service, pay per view and TV on demand, etc.)

 

[William]

I think that cable firms are allowed to do whatever they want, but my guess
is that they will discontinue analog service as well, for the same reason
.... the spectrum space (even within a closed cable system) is valuable.
Any slots used for analog TV transmission can't be used for anything else
(whether it's digital TV, cable internet service, cable phone service, pay
per view and TV on demand, etc.)

Barry:

It will take time, but cable analogue TV will go away too. I've done allot
of CATV (Closed Antenna TeleVision) work in my day. It's a big problem with
hi-frequency roll-off and cross-modulation as you go up the transmission
spectrum. One reason why everyone is drooling at the mouth over the old
spectrum, and why moving to the higher frequencies are a challenge for cable
companies. Out with the old, in with the new. Think Fiber Optics.
(Bi-directional, repeaters, distribution heads, runs to the curb and in the
home to the set top box. - and back)

That is, if something new doesn't come along and knock cable out of
business. (Over power line transmission, low flying platforms direct-to-home
bi-directional transmission). Hay - maybe we can dust off Tesla's 60hz
world resonance transmission theories and use that!

William

 

[cmon tell me what you really think]

NTSC was born before me. I was too young to buy a color TV when they came
out. Can't imagine how you could think it wasn't time for a 60year old
standard with glaring scan lines and variable color to go.

Things is, there was nothing wrong with NTSC on a good Sony XBR tv
that wasn't caused by the broadcasters being cheap with their video
signal in production and broadcast. Hell, ABC's Monday night
football looked as good as a DVD on my set depending on what city
they broadcast from.

DTV and HDTV are supposed to be improvements. Well guess what ?
You've got the same dickless professionals who brought you lousy
signal on NTSC productions bringing you (what else ?) lousy signal
on DTV and HDTV productions. Video compression is the new god of
increased profits.

Doesn't matter much though, there's not much on 120 channels of
cable tv that is worth watching and what there is, you can get on
DVD six months later.

You don't need any tuner

 

[T Shadow]

Things is, there was nothing wrong with NTSC on a good Sony XBR tv
that wasn't caused by the broadcasters being cheap with their video
signal in production and broadcast. Hell, ABC's Monday night
football looked as good as a DVD on my set depending on what city
they broadcast from.

DTV and HDTV are supposed to be improvements. Well guess what ?
You've got the same dickless professionals who brought you lousy
signal on NTSC productions bringing you (what else ?) lousy signal
on DTV and HDTV productions. Video compression is the new god of
increased profits.

Doesn't matter much though, there's not much on 120 channels of
cable tv that is worth watching and what there is, you can get on
DVD six months later.

You don't need any tuner

If you think analog is nearly as good as SD digital you must be close to the
transmitters. I'm not. You may be right about how the quality will go but
for now it's great and we'll see how things shake out. HD gets viewers and
that's what gets sponsors money. It's discussed ad nauseam in the HDTV
group.
Having a dozen or 2 OTA all night infomercials will be a good alternative to
paying for 60 channels of all night infomercials on cable. May not actually
be competition for the cable monopoly but couldn't be worse than none.
Don't know anyone that watch baseball, football or racing on DVD. Quit
renting videos before the first VCR gave up the ghost.

I need a tuner.

 

[keepout]

NTSC was born before me. I was too young to buy a color TV when they came
out. Can't imagine how you could think it wasn't time for a 60year old
standard with glaring scan lines and variable color to go. HDTV is not
mandated. Only DTV. all that's needed is a converter and you may be ableto
get one free when the time comes. I'm watching HDTV now on my computer. Have
been for 2years+. Couldn't wait to get it. BTW, I can receive DTV from all
the networks with an antenna but cannot do that with analog.

Maybe you would share just exactly what card you use to watch HDTV on your PC ?
I just bought a HDTV, after my 16 year old Magnavox finally lost total synch.
Now I want HDTV on my PC. I have the AIW 9800 AGP.
I've read the reviews by others about ATI products. I use catalyst 8.5. Ihave no use for something you can't turn off that captures crap all day long.
I'm a long [7 years] ATI unpaid involuntary Beta tester for their software.
Cripes if their software only matched the hardware you wouldn't hear a peep out of me.

Anyway's I'm in the market for HDTV for the AGP P4 hyper threading dual processor.

The reviews at ATI are not in favor of getting any ATI HDTV tuner. Actually the only ATI HDTV tuners 650 and 200 are both PCI. So reviews ornot, they're incompatible, and I'm not getting a new machine JUST for HDTV.

What HDTV are you using on your PC ?

 

[Andy]

NTSC was born before me. I was too young to buy a color TV when they came
out. Can't imagine how you could think it wasn't time for a 60year old
standard with glaring scan lines and variable color to go. HDTV is not
mandated. Only DTV. all that's needed is a converter and you may be able to
get one free when the time comes. I'm watching HDTV now on my computer. Have
been for 2years+. Couldn't wait to get it. BTW, I can receive DTV from all
the networks with an antenna but cannot do that with analog.

Maybe you would share just exactly what card you use to watch HDTV on your PC ?
I just bought a HDTV, after my 16 year old Magnavox finally lost total synch.
Now I want HDTV on my PC. I have the AIW 9800 AGP.
I've read the reviews by others about ATI products. I use catalyst 8.5. I have no use for something you can't turn off that captures crap all day long.
I'm a long [7 years] ATI unpaid involuntary Beta tester for their software.
Cripes if their software only matched the hardware you wouldn't hear a peep out of me.

Anyway's I'm in the market for HDTV for the AGP P4 hyper threading dual processor.

The reviews at ATI are not in favor of getting any ATI HDTV tuner. Actually the only ATI HDTV tuners 650 and 200 are both PCI. So reviews or not, they're incompatible, and I'm not getting a new machine JUST for HDTV.

What HDTV are you using on your PC ?

FusionHDTV <http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/Eng/>.