Which is better, heat pipe or heat sinks/fan CPU cooling solution. ?

[Guest]

I'm looking to purchase a heat sink and fan for the AMD Athlon 64 3500+
(Winchester) core.socket 939. There are new heat pipe technology heat sinks
out there these days and I need to know If heat pipe technology is superior
to the standard copper or aluminum heat sink/fans that I have been using for
years. and what brand and model would recommend for either technology.
Please give me you opinions on this matter.

 

[Mark A]

I'm looking to purchase a heat sink and fan for the AMD Athlon 64 3500+
(Winchester) core.socket 939. There are new heat pipe technology heat
sinks out there these days and I need to know If heat pipe technology is
superior to the standard copper or aluminum heat sink/fans that I have
been using for years. and what brand and model would recommend for
either technology. Please give me you opinions on this matter.

Thermalright XP-120 is very good. Check their website for mb compatibility.
XP-90 also works well and has better compatibility.
http://www.bestbyteinc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HSK-TRI-XP12

For some reason, Newegg ahs terrible prices on the Thermalright, so buy
elsewhere.

 

[Travis Jordan]

Please give me you opinions
on this matter.

http://www.dansdata.com/coolercomp.htm

 

[Mark A]

http://www.dansdata.com/coolercomp.htmThat article is a bit dated, and does not test the Thermalright heatpipes
(XP-120 and XP-90).

 

[Travis Jordan]

http://www.dansdata.com/coolercomp.htm and

http://www.heatsink-guide.com/content.php?content=heatpipes.shtml

 

[Peter van der Goes]

I'm looking to purchase a heat sink and fan for the AMD Athlon 64 3500+
(Winchester) core.socket 939. There are new heat pipe technology heat
sinks out there these days and I need to know If heat pipe technology is
superior to the standard copper or aluminum heat sink/fans that I have
been using for years. and what brand and model would recommend for
either technology. Please give me you opinions on this matter.

I'd suggest not considering costly cooling solutions for a CPU well known
not to challenge conventional solutions. A Winchester CPU simply does not
require a high tech/high cost HSF. My 3200+ (using the retail aluminum HSF),
running at 2.5 GHz, is at 33C with a case temp of 24C and room temp = 21C.
Highest recorded temp under stress testing was 45C. I don't have a
recommendation for an inexpensive 3rd party HSF, but if Wes Newell sees this
thread, he may well have some good suggestions.

 

[Guest]

I'm looking to purchase a heat sink and fan for the AMD
Athlon 64 3500+
There are new heat pipe technology heat sinks out there
these days and I need to know If heat pipe technology is
superior to the standard copper or aluminum heat sink/fans

I don't know of any new heat pipe technology, only old heat pipe
technology, which goes back to at least the 1960s (I have a hi-fi
amplifier from the 1980s or 1970s with one). But heat pipes typically
help heatsinks considerably, whether part of the heatsink is located
far from the CPU or everything is on top of it. Still you should check
comparative reviews (several models tested at once) to weed out badly
designed products.

 

[Mark A]

I'd suggest not considering costly cooling solutions for a CPU well known
not to challenge conventional solutions. A Winchester CPU simply does not
require a high tech/high cost HSF. My 3200+ (using the retail aluminum
HSF), running at 2.5 GHz, is at 33C with a case temp of 24C and room temp
= 21C. Highest recorded temp under stress testing was 45C. I don't have a
recommendation for an inexpensive 3rd party HSF, but if Wes Newell sees
this thread, he may well have some good suggestions.

That depends on how quiet you want your PC to be. If you want a very quiet
PC, then you need a HS that can run cool with a fan running about 1000 RPM
(preferably 120mm). This can be accomplished by buying a Nexus 120mm fan and
running it at 12V or another low speed fan and lowering voltage until it
spins about 1000 RPM.

 

[Felger Carbon]

Thermalright XP-120 is very good. Check their website for mb compatibility.
XP-90 also works well and has better compatibility.
http://www.bestbyteinc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HSK-TRI-XP12

I very recently purchased an XP-90 for use on a socket-754 mobo. Bad,
bad news!

The XP-90 (and 120) are P4 HSFs. They hook onto the 4 hooks provided
by the P4 "retainer" bracket. So Thermalright ships a replacement
bracket for AMD use, which replaces the AMD bracket with a P4 variant
that screws into the two holes provided for mounting the AMD bracket.
The two brackets fit the same space. No problems so far, right?

But I screwed the P4 replacement onto a Biostar K8VGAM mobo. And,
very nicely blocking one of the 4ea P4 mounting holes is a big
capacitor! Although there's plenty of room even in a mini-tower case
and on a uATX mobo for the XP-90, this capacitor put a permanent end
to my attempt to mount my new XP-90 to this board.

I also have an Asus K8S-MX uATX socket-754 board, which is running my
main computer now. A preliminary look-see suggests that the XP-90
will fit on this board. But as I've discovered, don't count on
problems not jumping up and biting you in a sensitive location when
doing this AMD - P4 mixology.

Finally, I want to agree with the person who suggested to you that
90nm AMD parts don't need major cooling. If you want to spend $20 and
you like Newegg, buy the TR2-M6 by Thermaltake. It's $6.99, quiet,
and will keep your new AMD chip running fine if the noise of the
standard AMD HSF bothers you. Send the rest of the money to me so you
can say you spent $20. ;-) ;-)

[I bought the XP-90 because I thought I'd better get some experience
with heat-pipes. That's after I read an article stating that a new
dual-core chip dissipated 199 watts!]

 

[Wes Newell]

I'm looking to purchase a heat sink and fan for the AMD Athlon 64 3500+.
There are new heat pipe technology heat sinks out there these days and I
need to know If heat pipe technology is superior to the standard copper
or aluminum heat sink/fans

Here's my thoughts having never used a heat pipe, so take it for what it's
worth. In the end, It's going to be the size of the fan and cooler
disipation unit (the fins basically) that will determine how much heat can
be removed. With a large copper base and a large fin area it's not going
to make much difference either way. The advantage of the heatpipe is that
it can use a very large chunk of metal away from the cpu to remove the
heat, asuming the heatpipes can get the heat from the base out to this
large cooler unit. So basically it's still going to come down to design.
The largest cooler in the world will be worthless if the heatpipe can't
move the heat from the base out to the cooler. So, you'll find both good
and bad heatpipe coolers just as you'll find both good and bad standard
coolers. The stock cooler works OK and a lot better with a fan adapter and
larger fan.

 

[Mark A]

I very recently purchased an XP-90 for use on a socket-754 mobo. Bad,
bad news!

The XP-90 (and 120) are P4 HSFs. They hook onto the 4 hooks provided
by the P4 "retainer" bracket. So Thermalright ships a replacement
bracket for AMD use, which replaces the AMD bracket with a P4 variant
that screws into the two holes provided for mounting the AMD bracket.
The two brackets fit the same space. No problems so far, right?

But I screwed the P4 replacement onto a Biostar K8VGAM mobo. And,
very nicely blocking one of the 4ea P4 mounting holes is a big
capacitor! Although there's plenty of room even in a mini-tower case
and on a uATX mobo for the XP-90, this capacitor put a permanent end
to my attempt to mount my new XP-90 to this board.

I also have an Asus K8S-MX uATX socket-754 board, which is running my
main computer now. A preliminary look-see suggests that the XP-90
will fit on this board. But as I've discovered, don't count on
problems not jumping up and biting you in a sensitive location when
doing this AMD - P4 mixology.

Finally, I want to agree with the person who suggested to you that
90nm AMD parts don't need major cooling. If you want to spend $20 and
you like Newegg, buy the TR2-M6 by Thermaltake. It's $6.99, quiet,
and will keep your new AMD chip running fine if the noise of the
standard AMD HSF bothers you. Send the rest of the money to me so you
can say you spent $20. ;-) ;-)

[I bought the XP-90 because I thought I'd better get some experience
with heat-pipes. That's after I read an article stating that a new
dual-core chip dissipated 199 watts!]

There are two versions of the XP-120/90, one for the P4 and one for AMD. You
obviously bought the one for P4. Mine came with 939 MB retainer ring
included. Some more recent models may have both retainers included. This is
not any different than other HS's.

The Thermalright website has detailed information about compatibility of
MB's with the XP series HS's. If your MB is not listed, then you should ask
around before purchasing.

 

[Roy]

I love my Thermaltake CL-P0025. It has a solid copper base with 6 copper
heatpipes with aluminum fins. It keeps my cpu very cool

under 30c idle and 36 load.

 

[kony]

I don't know of any new heat pipe technology, only old heat pipe
technology, which goes back to at least the 1960s (I have a hi-fi
amplifier from the 1980s or 1970s with one). But heat pipes typically
help heatsinks considerably, whether part of the heatsink is located
far from the CPU or everything is on top of it. Still you should check
comparative reviews (several models tested at once) to weed out badly
designed products.

"Often" heat pipes are only put on heatsinks that have other
similarly higher-end optimizatons towards cooling. That is,
it's a 'sink designed for enthusiasts rather than a
budget-optimized type design. Keeping this in mind and
comparing similar non-heatpipe 'sinks designed for
enthusiasts, the two alternatives are fairly similar and
shouldn't make much difference- if you REALLY need more
cooling then either won't make much difference compared to
water-cooling or a peltier (or both).

Heatpipes work, but are also unnecessary for good cooling.
One thing that "some" designs allow is mounting a larger fan
hgher up, like with some Thermaltake series, so in that case
it's "possible" through careful fan selection to cool a very
hot running CPU just a little quieter, but even this varies.

Overall heatpipes probably aren't worth the extra expense...
most important thing IMO, is good case flow as it allows a
more optimal lower RPM and quieter heatsink fan in addition
to keeping the rest of the system cooler too.

 

[Andrew MacPherson]

Overall heatpipes probably aren't worth the extra expense...

I think I agree, but I've been very impressed by heatpipe use on Zalman
vid card coolers. The large heatsinks those heatpipes feed gives you
more cooling options (either quiet or vigorous if you're overclocking).
The problem is that the heat's still stuck inside your case.

What's impressed me most though is the CPU heatpipe solution in Shuttle
cases. Ok, this is a case-specific solution, but the way the Shuttle
heatpipes take heat straight to a heatsink at the back of the case,
where air is blown through it by an 80mm fan, out of the case, is very
elegant and -- IME anyway -- very good indeed.

I'd like to see a CPU cooler with more flexible (or at least
configurable) heatpipes that would allow a similar CPU cooling solution
in "normal" cases.

Andrew McP

 

[Gripper]

I'm looking to purchase a heat sink and fan for the AMD Athlon 64 3500+
(Winchester) core.socket 939. There are new heat pipe technology heat
sinks out there these days and I need to know If heat pipe technology is
superior to the standard copper or aluminum heat sink/fans that I have
been using for years. and what brand and model would recommend for
either technology. Please give me you opinions on this matter.

My 2p worth: I tried all sorts of coolers for my P4 Prescott 3.2 slightly
o/c to 3.6:
The heat pipe cooler I tried was the Coolermaster Hyper6- a Kg of copper.
I ended up sending it back as it performed worse than the stock Intel
hs/fan.
Ended up using a Thermaltake Volcano with the fan speed controlled by the
mobo/heat sensor.
It is noisier than I'd like but without getting into water cooling, it'll
have to do.
hth
Neil

 

[David Maynard]

My 2p worth: I tried all sorts of coolers for my P4 Prescott 3.2 slightly
o/c to 3.6:
The heat pipe cooler I tried was the Coolermaster Hyper6- a Kg of copper.
I ended up sending it back as it performed worse than the stock Intel
hs/fan.

Something wasn't quite right then because the Hyper6 is capable of better
cooling than that.

 

[sbb78247]

I'm looking to purchase a heat sink and fan for the AMD Athlon 64
3500+ (Winchester) core.socket 939. There are new heat pipe
technology heat sinks out there these days and I need to know If heat
pipe technology is superior to the standard copper or aluminum heat
sink/fans that I have been using for years. and what brand and model
would recommend for either technology. Please give me you opinions
on this matter.

XP-120 with the Recomended Panaflow fan. Excellent combination - this keeps
a well O/C Celeron D out of the stratosphere temp wise. 100% CPU load doing
folding at home 38-39C. And was stated - they do come with both brackets
for the AMD and the Intel.

 

[Forum User]

From all I read and as someone who runs a TR SLK800 and an SLK900, I get the
impression that pipes don't make much difference.
What you're comparing ultimately, is the difference in transfer efficiency
between pipe-to-fin and base/fin-to-fin.
I can only imagine that's gunna be anything appreciable for VERY large
heatsinks (I mean MUCH larger than your typical 92mm sink).
An upgrade wouldn't be worth it - but for a new unit where the cost
differential is inconsequential, you may as well go for the pipe option.

 

[kony]

I think I agree, but I've been very impressed by heatpipe use on Zalman
vid card coolers. The large heatsinks those heatpipes feed gives you
more cooling options (either quiet or vigorous if you're overclocking).
The problem is that the heat's still stuck inside your case.

The larger problem is that massive heatsink blocks even more
passive flow/radiation, allows other parts of the card like
the regulators and caps to get even hotter than with a
traditional heatsink. Adding a fan can help but is still
worse for othose parts than if a smaller, less restrictive
heatsink were used. Point is that it's not hard to keep
many components cool enough to be stable and the CPU/GPU/etc
are parts designed to tolerate more heat long term than many
of the miniaturized surface mount power components.

What's impressed me most though is the CPU heatpipe solution in Shuttle
cases. Ok, this is a case-specific solution, but the way the Shuttle
heatpipes take heat straight to a heatsink at the back of the case,
where air is blown through it by an 80mm fan, out of the case, is very
elegant and -- IME anyway -- very good indeed.

It's ok, but considering that they custom engineered the
whole thing it might be more of a marketing concept than
useful- rackmounts have had the CPU & 'sink positioned at
the rear exhaust without any need for the larger heatpipe
design at all. It does fit though, and works- but given
further miniaturization of the mini-cube systems they may
need to rethink it.

I'd like to see a CPU cooler with more flexible (or at least
configurable) heatpipes that would allow a similar CPU cooling solution
in "normal" cases.

Me too. I'd like to see pipes that allow turning the side
panel of the case into a passive radiator that has an
insulating layer on the inside to keep more of the heat
radiated outside. Problem is the custom dimensions needed,
though perhaps if well engineered it could use a flexible
segment of pipe.

 

[sbb78247]

Forum User wrote:

From all I read and as someone who runs a TR SLK800 and an SLK900, I
get the impression that pipes don't make much difference.
What you're comparing ultimately, is the difference in transfer
efficiency between pipe-to-fin and base/fin-to-fin.
I can only imagine that's gunna be anything appreciable for VERY large
heatsinks (I mean MUCH larger than your typical 92mm sink).
An upgrade wouldn't be worth it - but for a new unit where the cost
differential is inconsequential, you may as well go for the pipe
option.

the xp 120/90 kind of work like a condenser in a refrigeration or a/c
system. The base plate "boils" the coolant in and it transfers the heat to
the fins (condenser) where it is cooled and returns to a "liquid" state. if
you had a compressor, then it would really be an active cooling system!