where is the real VB group?

[Cor Ligthert[MVP]]

Aaron,

I mean; I thought the gestapo died back in WW2.. lol

Will you explain what you mean with this when you are in a debat with
somebody from Germany.

Cor

 

[aaron.kempf]

so again.

If a newsgroup shows up - and it's not created by Microsoft - who was
it created by?

I mean seriously here.
Can I create a new group called

Microsoft.Public.GodsLanguage so that can be a folder where we talk
about VB?

I mean seriously if there is a group there; you have the audacity to
claim that it was not made by Microsoft?? Are you kidding me?

-Aaron

 

[aaron.kempf]

I just mean that Microsoft shouldn't censor free speech anywhere.

File that away under 'Do No Evil'.

-Aaron

 

[jaydeflix]

wow. now i've never heard that one before.

so how can I create a group on microsoft.public without microsofts
approval?

A) Create it on a news server that allows you to create a group in
any hierarchy. Just don't expect it to show up on
msnews.microsoft.com, and whether it shows up on Usenet in general is
questionable as well.

B) Go back in time when there was a bug with Microsoft's NNTP
implementation that would create newsgroups based on what it received
in a Newsgroups: header of an NNTP message.

 

[jaydeflix]

Block posts? *LOL* Then I would not have been able to post for years...
Yes, this is a newsgroup if you haven't noticed it yet, and a news
server hosts newsgroups. What's so funny with it?

Does Microsoft block posts?

Yep.

Does Microsoft block posts based on criticisms about the company?

Not while I was there. Do they now? Who knows.

That isn't to say that posts *containing* criticisms about Microsoft
weren't blocked, but that wasn't *why* they were blocked. You might
think it is nitpicking, but, sorry, it isn't. Think of it this way,
if a rule says 'Any posts with obscene language or personal attacks
will be removed' and a post contains a criticism of Microsoft using
obscene language, then that post gets removed. Not because of
criticism of Microsoft, but because of the obscene language.

But, again, that was policy when I ran the ship.

 

[aaron.kempf]

I militantly disagree.

Microsoft blocks negative posts without swearing or attacks-- ALL THE
TIME.

That is a _FACT_ and I will not argue it.

-Aaron

 

[aaron.kempf]

I'm sorry

'whether it shows up on usenet is questionable'?

That's ridiculous.

It does show up on UseNet; it does appear as if Microsoft.Public.VB is
dead.

Thus 'VB IS DEAD'.

I just think that it is ridiculous that they aren't consistent with
the way that they do this.
I mean.,. why would they have a dead rotting corpse on the front door
of Microsoft.Public.Vb?

Since VB is _STILL_ the worlds most popular langauge (according to
MSDN Magazine) I dont think that it makes sense for Microsoft to have
a corpse of a newsgroup at the front door for VB.

-Aaron

 

[aaron.kempf]

ok.. so what you're saying is that 'someone other than microsoft' made
the group called 'Microsoft.Public.Vb'.

Just like 'someone other than Microsoft' made the group called
'Microsoft.public.SqlServer'.

Right?

I just think that it is a load of turd that Microsoft has a rotting
corpse on the front door at Microsoft.Public.Vb

-Aaron

 

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Microsoft blocks negative posts without swearing or attacks-- ALL THE
TIME.

That is a _FACT_ and I will not argue it.

I have written thousands of posts on 'news.microsoft.com' in the last few
years but I remember only one occasion in which one of my posts has been
banned, although I have written lots of mssages heavily criticizing
Microsoft's product lifecycle and abrupt discontinuation of the Classic VB
line of products.

The reason for the removal of my message was that other heavily off-topic
messages in the thread which contained defamations have been removed. You
can read Microsoft's explanation here:
<URL:http://google.com/[email protected]>.
Interestingly this occured in a German newsgroup which seems to be monitored
from Redmond, although people from Microsoft normally do not post there.

Nevertheless Microsoft can only remove messages from their own news servers.
If the message is posted to another news server providing the newsgroup,
Microsoft cannot remove it.

 

[jaydeflix]

I'm sorry

'whether it shows up on usenet is questionable'?

That's ridiculous.

It does show up on UseNet; it does appear as if Microsoft.Public.VB is
dead.

Maybe you should consider the phrase 'whether it shows up on usenet is
questionable'.

That doesn't mean it WON'T.

It means it MIGHT NOT.

A usenet newsgroup is normally created with a particular type of post.
That post replicates throughout usenet and servers will either act on
that post or they won't.
If they act on it, that group gets created on that server.
If they don't, the group doesn't get created on that server.

Thus 'VB IS DEAD'.

I just think that it is ridiculous that they aren't consistent with
the way that they do this.
I mean.,. why would they have a dead rotting corpse on the front door
of Microsoft.Public.Vb?

They who? Who isn't consistent? What is it they are doing that they
aren't consistent? Where is the evidence that the newsgroup
microsoft.public.vb ever existed on Microsoft's newsgroup server?

 

[jaydeflix]

ok.. so what you're saying is that 'someone other than microsoft' made
the group called 'Microsoft.Public.Vb'.

I am saying that
Either someone other than Microsoft made that group.
-or-
The group was created as the result of a known bug that was resolved
some 9 years ago.

Just like 'someone other than Microsoft' made the group called
'Microsoft.public.SqlServer'.

Right?

Possibly? Judging by the usage pattern of that group compared to the
groups that exist on msnews.microsoft.com, I feel pretty confident
saying that group wasn't part of Microsoft's official newsgroup
hierarchy.

 

[jaydeflix]

Nevertheless Microsoft can only remove messages from their own news servers.
If the message is posted to another news server providing the newsgroup,
Microsoft cannot remove it.

Not entirely accurate...

They can send out a cancel message for the post, if they wish.
Whether it will actually be acted upon by any news server out there in
the real world is a completely different story.

I pushed for cancel messages not to be pushed out, since I recognized
that the MS ToU and Rules of Conduct were applicable to only the MS
news server and the company should not be policing Usenet, but I got
pushback.

 

[aaron.kempf]

I'm sorry that you don't believe me.
Microsoft blocks posts for whatever reason that they want.

They have blocked thousands of my posts; even when I was helpful and
not swearing.

 

[Michael D. Ober]

Actually, I think more people block Aaron's email address than he realizes
and not at the NG server level either. I would be interested in what it is
about VB 2008 that makes him feel it's a better fit for VB 6 programmers
than VB 2005, however.

Mike Ober.


I'm sorry that you don't believe me.
Microsoft blocks posts for whatever reason that they want.

They have blocked thousands of my posts; even when I was helpful and
not swearing.

 

[aaron.kempf]

wow John.

I applaud that.

So how do you like the new and improved Aaron?
I'm being a little more civilized, right?

-Aaron

 

[aaron.kempf]

I just swear that data binding is much nicer than in anything else
I've ever seen.

There are wizards; and things work- and when something goes wrong--
there is a halfway intelligible diagnosis.

Also-- what excites me about Vb 2008 is that it almost appears as if
Xlinq and Linq and Plinq and all this stuff.. is really an alternative
to ADO.net.. is it?

Is it the ADO.net replacement?

90% of my brothers didn't even bother with ADO classic; they got stuck
in the DAO phase.
I've never really been one to appreciate ADO.net. It just seems like
overkill in most situations.

But in VB 2008 I see datagrids and wizards-- and things just work like
they should.

I've never done anything too fancy-- I've just never really been able
to get datagrids to work; and to work reliably-- and to do what I
wanted.

But now there are wizards to customize it like I want.. I just swear
it's the complete package.

And I'm _SO_ stoked that the latest MSDN magazine put the VB
population higher than C#.

I think that rocks. And it's the facts, right?

I don't care what's the truth and what is not.
I just care more about VB than anyone else does at Microsoft; and I'm
glad to see it thriving.

I think that the 'help' is almost usable.

It just kinda seems to me like the help should almost have five
options instead of 3.
Because I've never been able to get any of the visual studio help to
work.

I think that VB 2008 'help' was actually working for me. I mean, you
go into a property and you hit F1 and it actually brings up what
you're looking at. Seems like a pretty simple test case; I just swear
that this is the first time in the past decade that I've got
_ANYTHING_ resembling an answer out of the help section.

I'm pretty strong with Vb-- it's not my #1 area of concentration; let
alone # 2, 3, 4 or 5.
But it's my primary langauge for ETL and silly things like that.

Console apps.

I haven't been able to kick off the training wheels of using MS
Access-- until now. Because VB 2008 is mostly usable; and it launches
in like a couple of seconds.

It's like everything I've ever dreamed for.

I can't wait to learn more about it. I just love how the IDE launches
when you click on it. I love how the help works. I love how the data
grids work.

I don't care so much about the web development side-- I don't see that
as important for me.

I love-- didn't the new VSTO ship _INCLUDED_ with the new VS pro 2008?
I mean that is like a wonderful move. Now I can build some silly
things in Excel like I've always dreamed about.

(Honestly; I love some of the silly mundane things that VSTO can do).

But altogether; this is the first IDE to come out of Microsoft in the
past decade-- that I would actually buy.
I mean; you can target previous versions of the DotNet framework.

It seems an order of magnitude more critical than it sounds-- but it's
a _REALLY_ big deal.

-Aaron