What to do with all the stupid and unnecessary "other/guest" user accounts and directories?

[thanatoid]

Hello,

Is it possible to move all the directories from All Users to
Administrator or vice versa and change the re;evant/necessary
shortcuts? It is driving me INSANE to have to check in two
different places every time I want to make a change to the start
menu. (Not to mention the set-up it totally illogical - at least
to a non-MS employee.)

Any thoughts/suggestions on this and related themes would be
greatly appreciated. I am new to XP and while I am beginning to
get used to it, the redundancy of 5 (or more) copies of the
identical file (were it only *one* file - it seems there are
HUNDREDS) in different places and the unnecessary presence of
other user accounts on machine which only one person in the
world ever touches is driving me nuts.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

t.

 

[Leonard Grey]

Whether or not you think it's "stupid and unnecessary" is irrelevent --
that's how Windows XP was designed. If you try to break Windows, you
will suffer the consequences.

If you are driven INSANE by something as miniscule as the user account
structure in an operating system, you really need to get out more.

 

[Tim Meddick]

If you only ever use one profile (i.e. Administrator) you can make a change to the
registry that will make the "Start Menu" within that users' "home" folder the only
one that the system uses.

(e.g. "C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Start Menu")

The changes would be as follows :

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders]
"Common Start Menu"="%USERPROFILE%\Start Menu"
"Common Startup"="%USERPROFILE%\Start Menu\Programs\Startup"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\User Shell
Folders]
"Common Start Menu"="%USERPROFILE%\Start Menu"
"Common Startup"="%USERPROFILE%\Start Menu\Programs\Startup"

....All the above values would normally have the values: %ALLUSERSPROFILE% as part of
them - by changing this to: %USERPROFILE% you change the focus to the current users
profile and make the Start Menu in the "All Users" folder redundant.

P.S.

I have also included a reg-file attachment (if you are using a news-reader capable of
"seeing" attachments) that will make these changes.

Another way of implementing these changes would be to copy and paste each of the
following four commands into a Command Prompt ("DOS-box") and press [ENTER] after
each...


reg ADD "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders" /v
"Common Start Menu" /d "%USERPROFILE%\Start Menu" /f

reg ADD "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders" /v
"Common Startup" /d "%USERPROFILE%\Start Menu\Programs\Startup" /f

reg ADD "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\User Shell Folders"
/v "Common Start Menu" /d "%USERPROFILE%\Start Menu" /f

reg ADD "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\User Shell Folders"
/v "Common Startup" /d "%USERPROFILE%\Start Menu\Programs\Startup" /f


(The above [4] commands should all be one-liners but may not appear so due to
line-wrap. Please ensure that each command begins with 'reg' and ends with '/f')

*Note - Please exercise care when editing the registry, always create a backup and /
or create a 'System Restore' point first.


==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[thanatoid]

Whether or not you think it's "stupid and unnecessary" is
irrelevent -- that's how Windows XP was designed. If you
try to break Windows, you will suffer the consequences.

Well, I suppose we have all known MS is only good at making
money, and even Apple is running a (significantly) prettied-up
version of a 35-year old OS, so it would seem there IS NO HOPE.

If you are driven INSANE by something as miniscule as the
user account structure in an operating system, you really
need to get out more.

Since you seem to be the kind of person that likes the
expression, I will use it:
"That ship has sailed."

I have little to do in my life aside from sitting in front of
idiot box #2. Sad but true.

Too bad humanum includes MS.

 

[thanatoid]

If you only ever use one profile (i.e. Administrator) you
can make a change to the registry that will make the "Start
Menu" within that users' "home" folder the only one that
the system uses.

This sounds promising, I will try it.

I have also included a reg-file attachment (if you are
using a news-reader capable of "seeing" attachments) that
will make these changes.

I use XNews and I did not even know you CAN include
"attachments" with non-binary posts.
If you could post them or post links to them, I would be MOST
grateful. I have no binaries access now, I'm on eternal-
september.

UPDATE: I just checked the DL dir where I saved you post, and
there IS a "SingleStartMenu.reg" file there. HOW it got there I
don't know. You learn something new about XNews (AND Total
Commander) almost every day.

Another way of implementing these changes would be to copy
and paste each of the following four commands into a
Command Prompt ("DOS-box") and press [ENTER] after each...

Will try them...

(The above [4] commands should all be one-liners but may
not appear so due to line-wrap. Please ensure that each
command begins with 'reg' and ends with '/f')

*Note - Please exercise care when editing the registry,
always create a backup and / or create a 'System Restore'
point first.

I'll make a registry backup. "System Restores" have never
sounded very reliable - and I have read many SR-related horror
posts.

I very much appreciate your help. Sounds like specific stuff
that may help me solve some of the annoyances.

 

[Anteaus]

Purely an observational comment, but it seems to me that userprofiling is
what drives the bulk of the overcomplexity present in modern OS's.

Thinking in particular of a site I was asked to troubleshoot recently, it
turned-out to have only three desktops, but these were joined to an SBS
domain with roaming profiles. To compound the situation two were XP and one
Vista, so between three computers there were six sets of roaming profiles.
Sorting this unholy mess out took two days work, and even then there were
still some odd glitches which would have to taken so long to resolve that I
advised the client to live-with them.

I could've installed a new system -minus AD domain and roaming profiles- in
less time than it took to fix the profile-related problems. In fact I did
suggest this, but the client decided to stick with the existing setup.

In an era when providing a computer (or two) for each user is almost a
trivial cost, multiuser profiling does seem like a farcical way to go about
things, especially for small sites. I begin to wonder if the reason why
small-site installers favour this route is because it's what they're trained
to do by Microsoft, or if it's a case of 'milking' the client by making
things as complex and as time-consuming as possible, to maximize support
bills.

 

[Tim Meddick]

Sorry,
you can also download my reg file from :

http://www.4shared.com/file/176172591/d9f0067a/SingleStartMenu.html

This Reg-file will make changes to the registry to use the current user's
"Start Menu" ONLY and therefore make the "Start Menu" in the "All Users" folder
redundant.

Please Note that this will make active the Start Menu (as and when you use this
reg file) for the CURRENT USER and will then apply to ALL OTHER USER PROFILES

*Note - Please exercise care when editing the registry, always create a backup and /
or create a 'System Restore' point first.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

If you only ever use one profile (i.e. Administrator) you
can make a change to the registry that will make the "Start
Menu" within that users' "home" folder the only one that
the system uses.

This sounds promising, I will try it.

I have also included a reg-file attachment (if you are
using a news-reader capable of "seeing" attachments) that
will make these changes.

I use XNews and I did not even know you CAN include
"attachments" with non-binary posts.
If you could post them or post links to them, I would be MOST
grateful. I have no binaries access now, I'm on eternal-
september.

UPDATE: I just checked the DL dir where I saved you post, and
there IS a "SingleStartMenu.reg" file there. HOW it got there I
don't know. You learn something new about XNews (AND Total
Commander) almost every day.

Another way of implementing these changes would be to copy
and paste each of the following four commands into a
Command Prompt ("DOS-box") and press [ENTER] after each...

Will try them...

(The above [4] commands should all be one-liners but may
not appear so due to line-wrap. Please ensure that each
command begins with 'reg' and ends with '/f')

*Note - Please exercise care when editing the registry,
always create a backup and / or create a 'System Restore'
point first.

I'll make a registry backup. "System Restores" have never
sounded very reliable - and I have read many SR-related horror
posts.

I very much appreciate your help. Sounds like specific stuff
that may help me solve some of the annoyances.

 

[Tim Meddick]

User Profiles give access to shared resources from any terminal a user logs onto in
the network.

If User Profiles did not exist as you suggest - a worker could only access stuff from
his OWN console and not from any other PC in his network.

I can log on to my profile from any PC in a number of locations on our employer's
network.

And on a single PC - it enables two or more users to keep files separate and secure
from each other stored either on that machine or a shared resource on the network.

Profiles are not used just for single PCs - but as "roaming profiles" can access the
same resources from multiple locations.

You recommend buying a PC for every user, but it's all about sharing resources that
makes life easier...

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[thanatoid]

Sorry,
you can also download my reg file from :

http://www.4shared.com/file/176172591/d9f0067a/SingleStartMe
nu.html

You may have missed this from my last post:

UPDATE: I just checked the DL dir where I saved you post, and
there IS a "SingleStartMenu.reg" file there. HOW it got there I
don't know. You learn something new about XNews (AND Total
Commander) almost every day.

I have yet to try your suggestions, but they sound very
promising. Thanks again.

 

[thanatoid]

=?Utf-8?B?QW50ZWF1cw==?= <[email protected]>
wrote in

Purely an observational comment, but it seems to me that
userprofiling is what drives the bulk of the overcomplexity
present in modern OS's.

In an era when providing a computer (or two) for each user
is almost a trivial cost, multiuser profiling does seem
like a farcical way to go about things, especially for
small sites. I begin to wonder if the reason why small-site
installers favour this route is because it's what they're
trained to do by Microsoft, or if it's a case of 'milking'
the client by making things as complex and as
time-consuming as possible, to maximize support bills.

I have very often thought that maximizing support costs (as part
of the "You sell Windows in your shop, and ONLY Windows, or
else..." strategy) was one of the main reasons for making
computer setups so unnecessarily complex.

 

[Anteaus]

User Profiles give access to shared resources from any terminal a user logs
onto in the network.

If User Profiles did not exist as you suggest - a worker could only access stuff > from his OWN console and not from any other PC in his network.

News to me.

Lst time I checked, having a userprofile (roaming or static) didn't give any
access to server shared ares.

Loading a profile might bring a group policy into force which causes
drve-mappings to appear. That is purely an incidental effect though. In order
to set a mapping the user must first have access-rights to the share, and
profiles do not grant rights. If the user has rights then they are able to
access the share, roaming profile or no.

The issue which profiling fails to address is that in many smaller firms the
computers are task-specific, for example a firm has a bank of powerful
desktops for design work, another has specialst software for accounting,
another is set-up for voicemail and reception duties. If one of these guys
is off sick or on vacation someone needs to take over, but the moment they
log-in the computer's settings revert, and it will no longer perform the task
it was set-up for.

The textbook remedies I'm always given to this are to use mandatory
profiles, or modify the Default profile. With a little thought you can see
that neither are applicable. Mandatory profiles lock-down all settings, which
is useless. The default profile is only applied to first-time users, and in
any case will not provide settings for any software installed since its
creation.

The upshot is that security is thrown to the window, and passwords are all
made the same, or written on post-its. Then, it becomes established practice
that on computer A you log-on as Susan, no matter who you actually are. On
computer B you log-on as James. When you ask, 'Who is Susan, anyway?' you are
told that she left a couple of years back to work for a competitior.

Not just hypothetical either, I suspect that a fair proportion of small
firms work that way.

Roaming profiles work for large companies, but they have the benefit of
onsite IT, and a very uniform and 'faceless' set of computers. Outside of
this environment it's a different matter.

Then, we have the issue of being 'stuck in the past' - since Windows 7's
roaming profiles are incompatible with XP, the choices are to stick with XP
for the forseeable future, face a long period of disruptive working, or
upgrade the entire site in one go. Which latter most small firms cannot
afford, either in licensing costs or downtime. I wonder if Microsoft have
considered the effect this design-decision must have on Windows 7 sales?

 

[Tim Meddick]

I have updated the reg-file as it did not contain all the necessary changes, I have
also created an "Undo" reg file and both can be downloaded together in a .zip file
below :

SingleStartMenu.zip
http://www.4shared.com/file/178081162/cbee7314/SingleStartMenu.html

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[Tim Meddick]

I'm talking about his [own] files on a shared [public] network drive.

If no profiles existed the user would have to keep any personal files on his own hd.

Any files he saved to a public drive would be visible to all!

WITH profiles - a user can store files on a networked public drive with his profile's
security credentials and access them from any console on the network providing he
logs in to his profile.

For example - I log in to any PC as %user% and get access to a "My Documents" folder
on the public drive.

Any files saved to this folder can be accessed again by logging into any other PC on
the network as %user% again.

No-one else but %admin% can "see" the files in "My Documents" even though they are on
the "public" drive.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[thanatoid]

I have updated the reg-file as it did not contain all the
necessary changes, I have also created an "Undo" reg file
and both can be downloaded together in a .zip file below :

Thanks for the update. Good thing I haven't had the "intestinal
fortitude" to try it yet...

Great to have the "undo" as well. I really appreciate your help.

Cheers,
t.

 

[Tim Meddick]

Let me again assure you that all this reg file will do is make the CURRENT user's
Start Menu the only one that the system will refer to, and therefore, make the Start
Menu in the "All Users" folder redundant.

This is ALL it does and the "undo" reg file re-instates the "All Users" Start Menu.

I have tested both and know that they work.

However, it's only worth using on a system where ONLY one profile is usually used
from day to day, and it is from this profile you would execute (import) the
SingleStartMenu.reg file (the "undo" file can be imported from any profile).

Because if any other profile is then used, they would find their Start Menu located
in another's folder (and unless Admin, would be read-only for them).

But if you only ever use one profile, then I can well see the advantages of having
only one location for the Start Menu.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[thanatoid]

Let me again assure you that all this reg file will do is
make the CURRENT user's Start Menu the only one that the
system will refer to, and therefore, make the Start Menu in
the "All Users" folder redundant.

If that "CURRENT" users is me, ie Admin in "E:\Documents and
Settings\Administrator\Start Menu"
then that is all I want.

This is ALL it does and the "undo" reg file re-instates the
"All Users" Start Menu.

I have tested both and know that they work.

I trust you.

However, it's only worth using on a system where ONLY one
profile is usually used from day to day, and it is from
this profile you would execute (import) the
SingleStartMenu.reg file (the "undo" file can be imported
from any profile).

I am the only person who ever touches or will touch this
computer, and I automatically log on as Admin.

Because if any other profile is then used, they would find
their Start Menu located in another's folder (and unless
Admin, would be read-only for them).

Irrelevant in this case, I trust.

But if you only ever use one profile, then I can well see
the advantages of having only one location for the Start
Menu.

That's an understatement.

Thanks again. I'll try it soon. (I have a lot of other things to
do right now...)
Will report on success/etc.

Cheers
t.

 

[Tim Meddick]

If you only ever use Admin[istrator] profile then it will work just fine.

Import while in Admin, and then reboot (just remember to do this at the end of a
session so you don't have to reboot specially).

Then the "Start Menu" within the "All Users" folder will be ignored and the only
"Start Menu" used will be the one within :

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Start Menu

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

 

[thanatoid]

If you only ever use Admin[istrator] profile then it will
work just fine.

Import while in Admin, and then reboot (just remember to do
this at the end of a session so you don't have to reboot
specially).

Then the "Start Menu" within the "All Users" folder will be
ignored and the only "Start Menu" used will be the one
within :

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Start Menu

Yes, that sounds great. I still have to do it... Currently
having a minor weird problem with the XP defragger - in the
xpbasics group if you care - not a big deal...

I was wondering whether this change is "permanent" (I know you
made an undo.reg file, but) in the sense that when I install
more programs, will they all go to the Admin start menu from now
on, instead of giving me 2 choices of all start menu subgroups -
without full paths needless to say - as an older program I
installed just the other day did - very frustrating...

Your willingness to help is as impressive as your knowledge, I
really appreciate it.

 

[Anteaus]

Rather old post and I've been away for a few days so sorry for delay in
reply, but..

Home Folders have absolutely nothing to do with local userprofiles, in fact
we used to allocate home folders on Netware 3.x servers for DOS clients, in
the dim and distant past. All you need to achieve this is some variable such
as %username% which can be included in a NET USE command (Or MAP for Netware)
so that the mapping is user-dependent.

The only client this won't work for is a laptop user - and they always are
the most difficult to cater-for satisfactorily. Point of fact, roaming
profiles don't work too well for laptop users either, since they will rarely
be in-sync with the local copy.

 

[Tim Meddick]

I believe you are trying to impose your personal experiences on to others.

The simple facts are these:

1). I have a roaming profile.

2). The profile has a "personal" folder (My Documents) on the same network drive as
the profile settings folder (home folder) is on.

3). The personal (My Documents) folder has permissions assigned that prevent other
"Users" from accessing it although I can "see" other Documents folders belonging to
other [roaming] users, likewise, I cannot access them.

4). To my thinking, having a works folder I can access from any PC in the building
where I work IS a convenience, whether or not you agree or disagree with that, the
fact remains that this folder still exists.


I have never configured networked "roaming" profiles but just use one. I don't know
how they set it up but can only say what I see.

And that is that I can "see" all the "Documents" folders of the various user's
profiles, in one place on the network drive, and can only access my own.

Plus, I can see all the "home" folders on the network drive, but in different area of
the drive.

The "local" drives are NOT used for the "My Documents" folder in these profiles.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.

Rather old post and I've been away for a few days so sorry for delay in
reply, but..

Home Folders have absolutely nothing to do with local userprofiles, in fact
we used to allocate home folders on Netware 3.x servers for DOS clients, in
the dim and distant past. All you need to achieve this is some variable such
as %username% which can be included in a NET USE command (Or MAP for Netware)
so that the mapping is user-dependent.

The only client this won't work for is a laptop user - and they always are
the most difficult to cater-for satisfactorily. Point of fact, roaming
profiles don't work too well for laptop users either, since they will rarely
be in-sync with the local copy.

I'm talking about his [own] files on a shared [public] network drive.

If no profiles existed the user would have to keep any personal files on his own
hd.

Any files he saved to a public drive would be visible to all!

WITH profiles - a user can store files on a networked public drive with his
profile's
security credentials and access them from any console on the network providing he
logs in to his profile.

For example - I log in to any PC as %user% and get access to a "My Documents"
folder
on the public drive.

Any files saved to this folder can be accessed again by logging into any other PC
on
the network as %user% again.

No-one else but %admin% can "see" the files in "My Documents" even though they are
on
the "public" drive.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London.