What is Z-Ram?

G

George Macdonald

It is a dynamic ram in which the storage node is the floating body of the
non fully depleted SOI device. At least that is my interpretation.

Does this sound about right?...
http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA6260580 - there's
also a click thru to an article on Innovative Silicon's approach at
http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA498617. The 2nd
article, on ISi's device mentions it's volatile and uses a single
transistor per cell; the Renesas' twin transistor method doesn't say
anything about volatility but the omission would possibly indicate
non-volatile??

Either way, do you think this stuff is going to ready for primetime in 2
years or so?
 
D

Del Cecchi

George said:
Does this sound about right?...
http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA6260580 - there's
also a click thru to an article on Innovative Silicon's approach at
http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA498617. The 2nd
article, on ISi's device mentions it's volatile and uses a single
transistor per cell; the Renesas' twin transistor method doesn't say
anything about volatility but the omission would possibly indicate
non-volatile??

Either way, do you think this stuff is going to ready for primetime in 2
years or so?

What do you mean "ready for prime time"? Can they make it work? Seems
likely. Will it be a lot better than SRAM or EDRAM? I haven't looked
at it so can't tell. And so I won't venture an opinion. Clearly AMD
thought it was plausible enough to pay some money. And you could read
the paper from CICC.
 
Y

Yousuf Khan

George said:
Does this sound about right?...
http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA6260580 - there's
also a click thru to an article on Innovative Silicon's approach at
http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA498617. The 2nd
article, on ISi's device mentions it's volatile and uses a single
transistor per cell; the Renesas' twin transistor method doesn't say
anything about volatility but the omission would possibly indicate
non-volatile??

Either way, do you think this stuff is going to ready for primetime in 2
years or so?


How fast can these things go anyways? In Z-RAM, it looks like they're
replacing a DRAM's capacitor with a /capacitive effect/ instead. Even
so, can any capacitor-based memory keep up with static ram? And wouldn't
they still need to go through a refresh cycle just like DRAM? I'm just
having trouble understanding how you can turn this into a cache ram.

Yousuf Khan
 
D

David Wang

Yousuf Khan said:
How fast can these things go anyways? In Z-RAM, it looks like they're
replacing a DRAM's capacitor with a /capacitive effect/ instead. Even
so, can any capacitor-based memory keep up with static ram? And wouldn't
they still need to go through a refresh cycle just like DRAM? I'm just
having trouble understanding how you can turn this into a cache ram.

There is nothing fundamental about SRAM or DRAM that makes one faster
than the other. They're both charge (storage) level based memory,
and the way you "read" data is to sense the value stored in the
cell. There's the additional trouble of having destructive reads for
the DRAM devices, but other than that, not a whole lot of difference.

You can optimize SRAM for density and DRAM for speed, but since SRAM
cells are much larger than DRAM cells, you can never get close to
DRAM density, so you always end up (somewhat) optimized for speed.
In (commodity) DRAM devices the opposite is true and pushed to the
extreme, so commodity DRAM devices are slow as molasses. There are
low latency DRAM devices, and IBM already offer all sorts of variants
of embedded DRAM blocks as part of its ASIC offerings, and those
embedded DRAM blocks are much larger (per bit) than their relatives in
commodity DRAM devices. Although part of the reason is that the
capacitive layers in the DRAM-optimized processes are specially
designed for it, while the embedded DRAM blocks have to use specially
inserted capacitive layers in the eDRAM process - suffering an area
penalty in the process, another part of the reason is that additional
logic elements are typically added to eDRAM to make them into SRAM-like
blocks.

IBM has been evangalizing eDRAM for eons now, and on more than one
technical forum, (a few presenters from) IBM argue that it would be
more cost effective for Intel to have used eDRAM as opposed to SRAM
for L3 cache. The argument was that for the same die size, the same
number of cells are hung on the bitlines, but since the cells are
smaller, the wires are shorter, thus ironically faster because of
smaller wire delay. The claim was that overall, a 6MB eDRAM L3 would
be far smaller than a 6 MB SRAM L3, while it would be just a fraction
of a hair smaller than SRAM. (Random cycle time is longer because
of write-back for the destructive read).

In this case, *if* the claims of Z-Ram stands up, it can be used as
the basis to construct caches that's tens of MB in size with better
power consumption characteristics, better SEU tolerance than SRAM,
smaller die area, all at a comparable access speed to an SRAM block
of equal capacity. If it's slightly faster, great. If it's slightly
slower, no big deal. L3 caches are about capacity rather than speed,
and +/- 20% in speed is not a big deal.
 
D

David Wang

David Wang said:
IBM has been evangalizing eDRAM for eons now, and on more than one
technical forum, (a few presenters from) IBM argue that it would be
more cost effective for Intel to have used eDRAM as opposed to SRAM
for L3 cache. The argument was that for the same die size, the same ^^^^^^^^
number of cells are hung on the bitlines, but since the cells are
smaller, the wires are shorter, thus ironically faster because of
smaller wire delay. The claim was that overall, a 6MB eDRAM L3 would
be far smaller than a 6 MB SRAM L3, while it would be just a fraction
of a hair smaller than SRAM. (Random cycle time is longer because
of write-back for the destructive read).

This should read "capacity". For the same capacity, the same number
of cells are hung on a bitline.
 
G

George Macdonald

What do you mean "ready for prime time"? Can they make it work? Seems
likely.

Well there's a *lot* of infrastructure here. Since the effect used is
considered parasitic, and a pest, in general IC use, is there no chance it
will be reduced in future processor designs through material
improvements?... or is this effect immutable and only going to increase
with reduced geometry? Then there's the companies which don't use SOI in
their uP designs... yet.:) I note that SOITEC is an investor in
Innovative Silicon.
Will it be a lot better than SRAM or EDRAM? I haven't looked
at it so can't tell. And so I won't venture an opinion. Clearly AMD
thought it was plausible enough to pay some money. And you could read
the paper from CICC.

It just seems that some of the Web sites which specialize in umm, scoops,
might have jumped the gun here - even AMD says there's a lot of
investigative work to be done. I also notice that Freescale is involved as
the current foundry - the last time AMD backed that horse, it bonked.:)

I can't find any paper from CICC. There's a white paper at
www.innovativesilicon.com but requires "registration".
 
G

George Macdonald

How fast can these things go anyways? In Z-RAM, it looks like they're
replacing a DRAM's capacitor with a /capacitive effect/ instead. Even
so, can any capacitor-based memory keep up with static ram? And wouldn't
they still need to go through a refresh cycle just like DRAM? I'm just
having trouble understanding how you can turn this into a cache ram.

Well there's been MoSys' 1T-SRAM for a while, which claims "frequency rates
equivalent to 6T SRAM" (bandwidth ?) and AFAICT tries to hide latency with
a multi-bank DRAM design. I've no idea how successful they've been in the
embedded market??

While it's interesting, I get the impression this is still pretty much at
the investigative research stage for the moment. I'm sure SOITEC will be
delighted if it all plays really well... imagine a (little fantasy)
situation where this is the force that drives Intel to SOI?... nah could
never happen.:)
 
D

Del Cecchi

George Macdonald said:
Well there's a *lot* of infrastructure here. Since the effect used is
considered parasitic, and a pest, in general IC use, is there no chance
it
will be reduced in future processor designs through material
improvements?... or is this effect immutable and only going to increase
with reduced geometry? Then there's the companies which don't use SOI
in
their uP designs... yet.:) I note that SOITEC is an investor in
Innovative Silicon.


It just seems that some of the Web sites which specialize in umm,
scoops,
might have jumped the gun here - even AMD says there's a lot of
investigative work to be done. I also notice that Freescale is
involved as
the current foundry - the last time AMD backed that horse, it
bonked.:)

I can't find any paper from CICC. There's a white paper at
www.innovativesilicon.com but requires "registration".

There was a paper by someone else at the CICC in San Francisco about
doing the same sort of thing. September 2005? But the papers may not be
online.

As for the floating body, it is an inherent part of soi. There is a
little piece of silicon on the bottom of the channel.

del
 
K

Keith

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 03:33:01 +0000, David Wang wrote:

IBM has been evangalizing eDRAM for eons now, and on more than one
technical forum, (a few presenters from) IBM argue that it would be
more cost effective for Intel to have used eDRAM as opposed to SRAM
for L3 cache. The argument was that for the same die size, the same
number of cells are hung on the bitlines, but since the cells are
smaller, the wires are shorter, thus ironically faster because of
smaller wire delay. The claim was that overall, a 6MB eDRAM L3 would
be far smaller than a 6 MB SRAM L3, while it would be just a fraction
of a hair smaller than SRAM. (Random cycle time is longer because
of write-back for the destructive read).

Not only evangelizing, but doing it. The L3 in the Power4 is eDRAM,
albeit not on the processor chip. That was in 2002.

<snip>
 
D

David Kanter

Either way, do you think this stuff is going to ready for primetime in 2
Well there's been MoSys' 1T-SRAM for a while, which claims "frequency rates
equivalent to 6T SRAM" (bandwidth ?) and AFAICT tries to hide latency with
a multi-bank DRAM design. I've no idea how successful they've been in the
embedded market??

While it's interesting, I get the impression this is still pretty much at
the investigative research stage for the moment. I'm sure SOITEC will be
delighted if it all plays really well... imagine a (little fantasy)
situation where this is the force that drives Intel to SOI?... nah could
never happen.:)

I think it's a little further than investigative, but it is definitely
at the early stages. As I said in comp.arch, on a || thread, when I
talked with the CEO, I got the impression they do have several design
wins. Most of these are probably low-risk design (from the perspective
of the owners of said designs), so that they can test the waters.

Intel may pursue FD-SOI, and this sort of technology would certainly
encourage them (although in all likelihood, they'd try and invent their
own version). I hope it does, as FD-SOI sounds somewhat more promising
than PD-SOI.

Unfortunately, a lot of the claims surrounding this technology
are...unclear. What is the cell size at fixed latencies and how does
it compare to SRAM, DRAM, and other alternatives? Is the 5x size
reduction only for cells focused on density at the cost of power and
latency? What is the power for said cells?

All of these questions are very unclear, but I'd love to have some
answers.

DK
 
D

Del Cecchi

David Kanter said:
I think it's a little further than investigative, but it is definitely
at the early stages. As I said in comp.arch, on a || thread, when I
talked with the CEO, I got the impression they do have several design
wins. Most of these are probably low-risk design (from the perspective
of the owners of said designs), so that they can test the waters.

Intel may pursue FD-SOI, and this sort of technology would certainly
encourage them (although in all likelihood, they'd try and invent their
own version). I hope it does, as FD-SOI sounds somewhat more promising
than PD-SOI.

Unfortunately, a lot of the claims surrounding this technology
are...unclear. What is the cell size at fixed latencies and how does
it compare to SRAM, DRAM, and other alternatives? Is the 5x size
reduction only for cells focused on density at the cost of power and
latency? What is the power for said cells?

All of these questions are very unclear, but I'd love to have some
answers.

DK
You could go to uspto.gov and look at their patents and the other patents
about memory on SOI, then do a layout and compare to an SRAM or eDram.
Or maybe there have been some ISSCC or CICC papers.

del
 
D

David Kanter

You could go to uspto.gov and look at their patents and the other patents
about memory on SOI, then do a layout and compare to an SRAM or eDram.
Or maybe there have been some ISSCC or CICC papers.

That's funny Del, perhaps you could. I'm "One marginally literate in
the art", not one "skilled in the art" : )

I don't know what I'd even need to start doing layout for a ZRAM based
cache. I'm assuming they have some sort of tool plugin that you can
use in the normal design flow...but I'm just guessing here.

DK
 
Y

YKhan

I saw from the articles that you posted that ZRAM seems to be a
one-element cell, basically just a single transistor makes up the whole
memory cell. I guess the transistor acts as its own capacitor due to
the SOI effects. Would this mean ZRAM is the densest RAM in the world?
From the press releases they're saying it's twice as dense as DRAM and
five times as dense as SRAM. I assume this is based on the number of
elements required to create each type of RAM? So I guess DRAM has two
elements, a transistor and a capacitor? And SRAM has five elements,
five transistors?

Yousuf Khan
 
D

Del Cecchi

David Kanter said:
That's funny Del, perhaps you could. I'm "One marginally literate in
the art", not one "skilled in the art" : )

I don't know what I'd even need to start doing layout for a ZRAM based
cache. I'm assuming they have some sort of tool plugin that you can
use in the normal design flow...but I'm just guessing here.

DK
The storage node is the body of an SOI fet, that is, the region of
silicon under the channel. What I don't have the patience to decipher at
the moment is how they access it. It can be sensed by looking at the vt
of the device which changes with the presence or absence of charge in the
body, although I didn't want to wade through many pages of patents to see
what they do. The first one I looked at of the four they have is 35
pages.

So the big questions are do they need a body contact or not for the cell.
And what is the bit line/word line arrangement.

del

PS the patent numbers are
US6925006
US6930918
US6934186
US6937516
 
G

George Macdonald

I think it's a little further than investigative, but it is definitely
at the early stages. As I said in comp.arch, on a || thread, when I
talked with the CEO, I got the impression they do have several design
wins. Most of these are probably low-risk design (from the perspective
of the owners of said designs), so that they can test the waters.

From what I see, it is my impression that the AMD interest is mainly
investigative at this stage. If the CEO sees AMD's play as a "design win",
that's up to him... but there is an indication that they are targeting
embedded memory consumer devices such as digi/video-cams etc.
Intel may pursue FD-SOI, and this sort of technology would certainly
encourage them (although in all likelihood, they'd try and invent their
own version). I hope it does, as FD-SOI sounds somewhat more promising
than PD-SOI.

Not sure what you're getting at here. The story goes that FD-SOI does not
exhibit FBE. Not sure what the ramifications are but AMD is said to be
pursuing FD-SOI for CPUs down the road.
Unfortunately, a lot of the claims surrounding this technology
are...unclear. What is the cell size at fixed latencies and how does
it compare to SRAM, DRAM, and other alternatives? Is the 5x size
reduction only for cells focused on density at the cost of power and
latency? What is the power for said cells?

The 5x is a comparison with current SRAM; for DRAM the claim is 2x and
according to some reports is apparently an observed pay-off at similar or
higher speeds. Toshiba is possibly, at least as far as is publicly known,
furthest along in actual prototype device creation:
http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=174910622. Their
numbers seem to fit the predictions, with an expected time to product of ~3
years.
 
G

George Macdonald

I saw from the articles that you posted that ZRAM seems to be a
one-element cell, basically just a single transistor makes up the whole
memory cell. I guess the transistor acts as its own capacitor due to
the SOI effects. Would this mean ZRAM is the densest RAM in the world?

I guess it could hold that title if it pans out... though there are guys
working on RAM based on molecular effects.
five times as dense as SRAM. I assume this is based on the number of
elements required to create each type of RAM? So I guess DRAM has two
elements, a transistor and a capacitor? And SRAM has five elements,
five transistors?

I think that's right but I'm sure we'll be corrected if not.:) There are
a couple of intriguing things which I haven't seen explained yet though:
first is the issue of whether the FBE memory cells are dynamic or not, i.e.
require refresh and are read destructive; the other is that from what I
see, it only works with PD-SOI and that FD-SOI, which is the apparent
target for uP circuitry at 40nm and beyond, there is no FBE. I've no idea
if FD-SOI would be a different wafer base or if the two could be mixed on
the same chip, kinda like low-K + high-K is planned for future chips.
 
D

David Kanter

I think that's right but I'm sure we'll be corrected if not.:) There are
a couple of intriguing things which I haven't seen explained yet though:
first is the issue of whether the FBE memory cells are dynamic or not, i.e.
require refresh and are read destructive; the other is that from what I
see, it only works with PD-SOI and that FD-SOI, which is the apparent
target for uP circuitry at 40nm and beyond, there is no FBE.

http://www.innovativesilicon.com/en/technology_roadmap.php

They have already demoed ZRAM on FD-SOI and in FinFets.
I've no idea
if FD-SOI would be a different wafer base or if the two could be mixed on
the same chip, kinda like low-K + high-K is planned for future chips.

I think the goal for ZRAM is to always use the same logic process. FD
and PD SOI will always be different processes.

DK
 

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