What is the mystery behind adding Firewire to a PC?

[Licensed to Quill]

Been trying for about 6 months or more to get a firewire drive working on my
PC. Plugged my 30 gig IBM Caldrives firewire drive into a Mac and it lit up
and worked immediately. Bought one of those generic Firewire PC cards
(obviously the same unit being sold under a huge variety of names at the
moment, Adaptec, ELmo Systems, ST Lab etc etc) for my PC notebook and then
found that PC's pc slots dont have the power to drive a firewire drive.

Doublechecked this by plugging the card into a Mac and IT works properly and
sees the drive immediately without even needing to install extensions.

But you can plug in the card on a PC, the OS will see it and recognise it
and even Windows 2000 will automatically install the software for it and
configure it but it seems you still can't do anything with it. Anyway, the
card is seen, which I suppose is a bit of an advance?

So after much hassle I finally found a 5 volt 2 amp adapter and plugged it
into the drive and it lit up and STILL the drive at the other end of it
isn't seen.

THen I found an undocumented feature of these cards which is that no seller
wants to mention that none of them will actually work unless you buy a
separate power supply. (see Adaptec site for this as a slight suggestion!)
Luckily the supply is variously described as being a 1 or a 1.5 amp 12 volt
positive centre standard socket which is easy enough and I am now trying
this approach.

YES!! Success!! Light goes on on drive and it powers up. But the
Operating system STILL can't see it????

I checked Device Manager which cheekily shows a properly configured firewire
controller, (tried detect or add new hardware with the wizard without
success) so I am left wondering what on earth one has to do to get the OS to
see the drive? (Caldrives has been completely clueless all along and when
pressed, claim they only make the enclosures. As soon as you tell them that
your drive works properly in a Mac they jump at the opportunity to telll you
that it isn't defective so please push off and bother someone else if you
need to get it working)

Interestingly enough, I disassembled the drive and found a normal IBM
Travelstar IDE drive mounted on the firewire card but I can't imagine I need
to configure anything in the BIOS, after all Device Manager shows a properly
configured firewire controller?

Licensed to Quill

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Been trying for about 6 months or more to get a firewire drive working on my
PC. Plugged my 30 gig IBM Caldrives firewire drive into a Mac and it lit up
and worked immediately. Bought one of those generic Firewire PC cards
(obviously the same unit being sold under a huge variety of names at the
moment, Adaptec, ELmo Systems, ST Lab etc etc) for my PC notebook and then
found that PC's pc slots dont have the power to drive a firewire drive.

Doublechecked this by plugging the card into a Mac and IT works properly and
sees the drive immediately without even needing to install extensions.

But you can plug in the card on a PC, the OS will see it and recognise it
and even Windows 2000 will automatically install the software for it and
configure it but it seems you still can't do anything with it. Anyway, the
card is seen, which I suppose is a bit of an advance?

So after much hassle I finally found a 5 volt 2 amp adapter and plugged it
into the drive and it lit up and STILL the drive at the other end of it
isn't seen.

THen I found an undocumented feature of these cards which is that no seller
wants to mention that none of them will actually work unless you buy a
separate power supply. (see Adaptec site for this as a slight suggestion!)
Luckily the supply is variously described as being a 1 or a 1.5 amp 12 volt
positive centre standard socket which is easy enough and I am now trying
this approach.

YES!! Success!! Light goes on on drive and it powers up. But the
Operating system STILL can't see it????

I checked Device Manager which cheekily shows a properly configured firewire
controller, (tried detect or add new hardware with the wizard without
success) so I am left wondering what on earth one has to do to get the OS to
see the drive? (Caldrives has been completely clueless all along and when
pressed, claim they only make the enclosures. As soon as you tell them that
your drive works properly in a Mac they jump at the opportunity to telll you
that it isn't defective so please push off and bother someone else if you
need to get it working)

Interestingly enough, I disassembled the drive and found a normal IBM
Travelstar IDE drive mounted on the firewire card but I can't imagine I need
to configure anything in the BIOS, after all Device Manager shows a properly
configured firewire controller?

You used the word "notebook" once. Is this whole thing about a
notebook PC or did you just try it on a notebook PC in your struggles
with a desktop PC?

*TimDaniels*

 

[ep]

Hmmmmmmmm....

First, while you were in Device Manager, did you look at "Disk Drives"? It
should have shown you the external drive if it truely configured it
properly.

Second, are you connected to a network? Networks (especially Novell) tend
to assign "ghost" drive letters that are not truly locked and then other
Removable devices sometimes try to use them together (unsuccessfully, I
might add).

If the DM did see the external drive, then did you go to Computer Managment
(In Control Panel inside Administrative Tools) then select Disk Managment
(if not expanded, it is under "Storage". If there is an entry for the
external drive, does it have a drive letter? If it is the same as another,
then you need to change it. If not, then it really did not get installed
properly. Try unplugging it and plugging it in again.

I have installed/used multiple external drives via USB without issue. Do
not use fireware on laptops because of the power issue you describe. I want
it totally portable and having to have some external power adapter defeats
that. Some drives use USB for power (or go through the PS1 connector for
power also). They have a "Y" cable with the firewire end and USB end.

Hope some of this helps.........

E

 

[BOHICA]

Been trying for about 6 months or more to get a firewire drive working on my
PC. Plugged my 30 gig IBM Caldrives firewire drive into a Mac and it lit up
and worked immediately. Bought one of those generic Firewire PC cards
(obviously the same unit being sold under a huge variety of names at the
moment, Adaptec, ELmo Systems, ST Lab etc etc) for my PC notebook and then
found that PC's pc slots dont have the power to drive a firewire drive.

Doublechecked this by plugging the card into a Mac and IT works properly and
sees the drive immediately without even needing to install extensions.

But you can plug in the card on a PC, the OS will see it and recognise it
and even Windows 2000 will automatically install the software for it and
configure it but it seems you still can't do anything with it. Anyway, the
card is seen, which I suppose is a bit of an advance?

So after much hassle I finally found a 5 volt 2 amp adapter and plugged it
into the drive and it lit up and STILL the drive at the other end of it
isn't seen.

THen I found an undocumented feature of these cards which is that no seller
wants to mention that none of them will actually work unless you buy a
separate power supply. (see Adaptec site for this as a slight suggestion!)
Luckily the supply is variously described as being a 1 or a 1.5 amp 12 volt
positive centre standard socket which is easy enough and I am now trying
this approach.

YES!! Success!! Light goes on on drive and it powers up. But the
Operating system STILL can't see it????

I checked Device Manager which cheekily shows a properly configured firewire
controller, (tried detect or add new hardware with the wizard without
success) so I am left wondering what on earth one has to do to get the OS to
see the drive? (Caldrives has been completely clueless all along and when
pressed, claim they only make the enclosures. As soon as you tell them that
your drive works properly in a Mac they jump at the opportunity to telll you
that it isn't defective so please push off and bother someone else if you
need to get it working)

Interestingly enough, I disassembled the drive and found a normal IBM
Travelstar IDE drive mounted on the firewire card but I can't imagine I need
to configure anything in the BIOS, after all Device Manager shows a properly
configured firewire controller?

Last year I purchased an iPod and while it will work via USB2 it won't
charge unless via Firewire. I purchased one of the cheap no name cards from
Fry's and had nothing but problems with it. I was about to give up but
decided to lay out the cash for an Adaptec Firewire/USB2 combo card.
Plugged it in and it's been working flawlessly for almost a year now. I
have my iPod, Sony external DVD burner and a Maxtor 300GB drive connected
and have had no problems at all. This is on a Win2k SP4 desktop machine.

 

[Licensed to Quill]

Thanks guys but this IS a notebook (from which I desperately need to
transfer files off as the HDD is filling up) and whereas the card is
configured, the drive isn't. But the card does provide power to the drive
so I cant see why the OS shouldn't see the drive?

The drive isnt identified as disc drives in DM or in Disc Management either.
And unplugging the card and plugging it in again doesn't help, which is why
I posted here? (nor does rebooting)

"BOHICA" <[email protected] wrote in message

 

[Theo]

Thanks guys but this IS a notebook (from which I desperately need to
transfer files off as the HDD is filling up) and whereas the card is
configured, the drive isn't. But the card does provide power to the
drive so I cant see why the OS shouldn't see the drive?

The drive isnt identified as disc drives in DM or in Disc Management
either. And unplugging the card and plugging it in again doesn't help,
which is why I posted here? (nor does rebooting)

If you just need to get files off the laptop, and you have a PC (I assume
you do), but you do not have a network, go get a crossover cable (not the
usual ethernet cable) for 5 bucks or so, connect both directly together,
and copy stuff over. A lot less hastle than worrying about getting external
drives to work and power issues, etc.

 

[Donald Link]

Have you made sure the external drive is set up as master. Sure
sounds like it is problem with the external case. Have you tried
someone elses external drive.

 

[Licensed to Quill]

There doesn't seem to be any facility for doing that with this drive short
of taking it out of the case and taking the hard drive (which is an IDE) off
the circuit board itself. I called CalDrives and they hadn't the vaguest
idea why the drive shoudnt be seen in disk management if I refresh the
drives. They insisted that there must be aproblem with the drive (meaning
their casing and circuit board) until I told them that it worked fine with a
Mac!

But as I mentioned, I suspect it must be configured as a master as it is
seen on a Mac as a fresh drive both with the PC card in a PowerMac and on an
Imac through the direct Firewire slot so I presume the jumpers are correctly
configured? That wouldn't be the case if it was jumpered as a slave to some
other IDE drive or as cable select where cable isnt being used?

 

[Tony Hwang]

Been trying for about 6 months or more to get a firewire drive working on my
PC. Plugged my 30 gig IBM Caldrives firewire drive into a Mac and it lit up
and worked immediately. Bought one of those generic Firewire PC cards
(obviously the same unit being sold under a huge variety of names at the
moment, Adaptec, ELmo Systems, ST Lab etc etc) for my PC notebook and then
found that PC's pc slots dont have the power to drive a firewire drive.

Doublechecked this by plugging the card into a Mac and IT works properly and
sees the drive immediately without even needing to install extensions.

But you can plug in the card on a PC, the OS will see it and recognise it
and even Windows 2000 will automatically install the software for it and
configure it but it seems you still can't do anything with it. Anyway, the
card is seen, which I suppose is a bit of an advance?

So after much hassle I finally found a 5 volt 2 amp adapter and plugged it
into the drive and it lit up and STILL the drive at the other end of it
isn't seen.

THen I found an undocumented feature of these cards which is that no seller
wants to mention that none of them will actually work unless you buy a
separate power supply. (see Adaptec site for this as a slight suggestion!)
Luckily the supply is variously described as being a 1 or a 1.5 amp 12 volt
positive centre standard socket which is easy enough and I am now trying
this approach.

YES!! Success!! Light goes on on drive and it powers up. But the
Operating system STILL can't see it????

I checked Device Manager which cheekily shows a properly configured firewire
controller, (tried detect or add new hardware with the wizard without
success) so I am left wondering what on earth one has to do to get the OS to
see the drive? (Caldrives has been completely clueless all along and when
pressed, claim they only make the enclosures. As soon as you tell them that
your drive works properly in a Mac they jump at the opportunity to telll you
that it isn't defective so please push off and bother someone else if you
need to get it working)

Interestingly enough, I disassembled the drive and found a normal IBM
Travelstar IDE drive mounted on the firewire card but I can't imagine I need
to configure anything in the BIOS, after all Device Manager shows a properly
configured firewire controller?

Licensed to Quill

Hmmmm,
I have a 120GB IDE drive in an external enclosure with Firewire or USB
interface built in. It works 100% either way. Matter of plugging in
different cable(USB or Firewire)
Tony

 

[Steven Scharf]

THen I found an undocumented feature of these cards which is that no seller
wants to mention that none of them will actually work unless you buy a
separate power supply. (see Adaptec site for this as a slight suggestion!)
Luckily the supply is variously described as being a 1 or a 1.5 amp 12 volt
positive centre standard socket which is easy enough and I am now trying
this approach.

I have a Margi 1394-to-Go Cardbus card, and it has no provision for an
external adapter. A Cardbus card would be hard-pressed to provide
enough current from the notebook PC out over the Firewire port to
drive an external hard drive, so I understand why some providers have
the option of a separate power supply, though what I usually see is
that the actual Firewire device has a seperate power supply.

Look at the La Cie site for their external Firewire hard drives:

"For standard FireWire-equipped computers, AC adapter free. No AC
adapter needed with standard FireWire bus equipped computer. iLink
users, not powered FireWire hubs or PCI/PCMCIA host adapter may
required an optional AC Adapter (sold separately)"

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10105

In short, your problem is not Mac versus PC, it is that the Cardbus
interface isn't capable of providing sufficient power to the 1394
port.

I use a Nexstar 1394/USB 2.0 drive, but it has it's own power supply.
It works fine on a 1394 Cardbus card.

Part of your problem may be Windows 2000. Under Windows '98 I had a
lot of problems with getting the OS to see the USB and Firewire
peripherals, but under XP it works flawlessly. XP is a huge
improvement in terms of plug and play over earlier Microsoft OSes.

 

[Licensed to Quill]

"Licensed to Quill" <[email protected]> wrote in message

I have a Margi 1394-to-Go Cardbus card, and it has no provision for an
external adapter. A Cardbus card would be hard-pressed to provide
enough current from the notebook PC out over the Firewire port to
drive an external hard drive, so I understand why some providers have
the option of a separate power supply, though what I usually see is
that the actual Firewire device has a seperate power supply.

Look at the La Cie site for their external Firewire hard drives:

"For standard FireWire-equipped computers, AC adapter free. No AC
adapter needed with standard FireWire bus equipped computer. iLink
users, not powered FireWire hubs or PCI/PCMCIA host adapter may
required an optional AC Adapter (sold separately)"

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10105

In short, your problem is not Mac versus PC, it is that the Cardbus
interface isn't capable of providing sufficient power to the 1394
port.

I use a Nexstar 1394/USB 2.0 drive, but it has it's own power supply.
It works fine on a 1394 Cardbus card.

Part of your problem may be Windows 2000. Under Windows '98 I had a
lot of problems with getting the OS to see the USB and Firewire
peripherals, but under XP it works flawlessly. XP is a huge
improvement in terms of plug and play over earlier Microsoft OSes.

This is beginning to be more baffling and easier to understand all the time:
I am just using the wrong OS?

I just installed a FireWire OrangeMicro PCI card in a 400 Celeron PC and the
drive lights up AND isnt seen by that 98SE system either! Annoyingly my
Windows XP notebook is a Satellite which says it has a firewire port but
which doesn't. (BTW, I actually HAVE connected a power supply both to the
drive AND the PC card and it lights up with both AND isnt seen when using
either.

 

[Steven M. Scharf]

..

I just installed a FireWire OrangeMicro PCI card in a 400 Celeron PC and the
drive lights up AND isnt seen by that 98SE system either! Annoyingly my
Windows XP notebook is a Satellite which says it has a firewire port but
which doesn't. (BTW, I actually HAVE connected a power supply both to the
drive AND the PC card and it lights up with both AND isnt seen when using
either.

I had a very hard time getting my Firewire drive to work on Windows '98 PC.
It requires a driver of course, but even with the driver, it was flakey, the
drive would come and go from "My Computer." Changing the same machines to XP
Pro fixed this.

A lot of notebooks have unpowered Firewire ports, so this won't help you a
lot with a drive that has no provision for powering it externally. I'm not
sure of the real reason for the popularity of the unpowered 1394 ports on
notebooks, it could be for connector size, it could be because they want to
keep the size of the DC-DC converter inside the system smaller, it could be
just because it's cheaper. But of course the one place you really want a
powered port is on a notebook.

 

[Gunrunnerjohn]

I've never seen that there was any secret. I've used my three Firewire drives
on a number of diverse PC's with both MB Firewire and add-on $15 cards without
any problems. I've actually had better luck with Firewire disks than with USB
2.0 for total compatibility. I've never added Firewire to a laptop, but my
Firewire disks work fine with a Compaq EVO-160 with Firewire.