What is shareware? What was shareware?

T

Tony Bryer

I'm curious, just what are demographics of freeware developers?
My uneducated guess is that most are probably students who have
yet to enter the workforce (real world?), and that there are a
few who have well-paying day jobs and do this as a hobby that
they don't want to spend a lot of time supporting.

You also have to add those who are supplying 'free' programs as a
way of advertising themselves or their company. We produce a free
program QSEDBUK which is a front end for public domain UK domestic
heating boiler efficiency statistics. Although it is free we do
not allow other people to put it on their sites: if they think
that it is something that may interest their visitors they can put
a link to our site - and once people come to it they may be
interested in our commercial products.
 
M

mayayana

Reasons to write freeware? Is it really so different from
anything else? I think that one needs to be careful about
mixing up the facts of the current commercial software
landscape with how one would like that landscape to look.
Reasons that I can think of to write freeware, offhand:

1) People who just do it for fun, because they like to program
and enjoy some recognition.

2) For many of the Open Source people it's a political
and/or quasi-religious activity.

3) Loss leaders for commercial software.

4) An act of generosity, because someone sees a need and
just decides to take on the job of filling it.

5) Perhaps one of the greatest motivators: Pride.
People accomplish all sorts of things with only the
simple motivation that they think the public, their lover,
their mother, or even themselves, will be impressed....
the "I could be somebody!" motive.

6) There are a vast number of people who accomplish
useful things because they've been blessed with wealth
and don't need to worry about making money.
For instance, the fact that Jimmy Carter volunteers for
Habitat for Humanity doesn't imply that he's an amateur
carpenter. He's not. His work has been published in
Fine Woodworking. He's just volunteering where he can be
useful.

I use a lot of freeware and I expect that most people do.
It's just too expensive to spend $20-$80 for every minor
utility. In fact, most of what I use is freeware:

* Power Archiver for zip (the earlier, free version) and 7-Zip.
* IrfanView for image viewing. (I sent Irfan Skildjan the
requested $10 but it's donation-ware.)
* Regmon and FileMon.
* A hex editor that came with a programming book.
* Firefox.
* Outlook Express.
* CoffeeCup FTP.
* ZoneAlarm.
* OpenOffice.
* Notepad (the program I use more than any other.)
* B's Recorder Gold that came with my CDR.
* Shalom Help Maker
* HttTrack website downloader.

Those were all free and most are among the best
in their category. The software I've paid for is only
the software that has specific functionality that's worth
the cost to me:

AtGuard firewall. (before Symantec bought it and ruined it.)
CleanSweep (before Symantec bought it and ruined it.)
Partition Magic. (before Symantec bought it...and will probably ruin it.)
Drive Image. (before Symantec bought it, but it was already
ruined when they bought it.)
Windows (98SE version, before Microsoft ruined it.)
Visual Studio (before Microsoft .Netted it.)
Norton System Works (before product activation.)
Paint Shop Pro

[ Come to think of it, I wouldn't buy most of those programs today
because of product activation, spyware functions, restricted
functionality, etc. I guess I'd look for freeware alternatives. :) ]

The best example of good freeware that I can think of
is at sysinternals.com. The authors there are experts and their
software is very solid. They may write it partially as loss-leader
stuff for their own business, but it appears to me that their main
motive is probably just love of programming and common
decency.
 
J

Julian

Martin said:
I don't see this from the money point, I see it from the point that QUALITY
sells... a fresh programmer without skill is not in the position to write
software that can be sold. I think you see software as something you can
make money with, just because it's software. That doesn't work. Quality is
one of the key features that sells software. And to deliver quality it
takes experience. Nothing a noobie has.

I think there are quite a few good quality free- and shareware utilities
that appear to be developed by young people. Often it's just a gut
feeling I get from the website, but sometimes the .edu domain gives the
game away...

It's also an indisputable fact that your mind is at its sharpest when
you're about 20, which is an advantage when writing complicated code. To
my chagrin, I'm often made too keenly aware that at 50+ I'm a far worse
programmer than I was at 20. I can't get my head around complicated
stuff any more.

This is a young person's game, and a lot of young people have made their
fortunes in it, Bill Gates being the prime example (I think he was in
his 'teens when he wrote Microsoft Basic for the Altair.)
 
A

Art Rooney

REM said:
This is true regardless of age. One of the brightest people I've ever
met was a 16 year old who was home schooled, evidently by parents
skilled in mathematics and programming. He aced everything and I
"think" placed out of the 4 year university within 2 years. The first
I saw of him was in an entry level course. He was in upper level
courses the last I saw of him.

Had he wanted to "throw" a game together in his spare time I think it
would be one of the best ever produced, from the foundation up.

Because he's a great programmer? Games are much more than just
programming. Unless he's also a skilled artist, animator,
musician/composer, software tester, et.c and has great ideas for
games, he wouldn't have a prayer.

I don't think people appreciate what goes into making a professional
commercial game. Dozens of people working for years at a time.
 
J

John Hung

Julian,
It's also an indisputable fact that your mind is at its sharpest when
you're about 20, which is an advantage when writing complicated code. To

Sharpest but not enough experience and knowledge.
Not everyone gets jellyfish brains when crosses the 50 barrier. From what I
have seen most successful authors are not young people. I am over 50 and am
much better than when I was, say, 40. I know much more and I code faster.
If health allows, I will continue producing for more 15 or 20 years.
This is a young person's game, and a lot of young people have made their
fortunes in it, Bill Gates being the prime example (I think he was in his
'teens when he wrote Microsoft Basic for the Altair.)

Bill Gates was after a business man with a good star, not an exceptional
programmer.
 
S

steve

It's also an indisputable fact that your mind is at its sharpest when
you're about 20, which is an advantage when writing complicated code. To
my chagrin, I'm often made too keenly aware that at 50+ I'm a far worse
programmer than I was at 20. I can't get my head around complicated
stuff any more.

Interesting point Julian but you may have missed out on the fact that
older people tend to be more thorough. When I was in my twenties I
could write mainframe machine code games very quickly. The odd bug or
two always got through because I would lose interest in the current
game and be dreaming up the next one. Later in life I had the patient
to wade through code, traces and diagnostic data looking for bugs. So,
I was a fast coder in my twenties but now, in my fifties I'm slower
but the end result is much better and usually bug free. IMO modern
code is no more complicated than the code I worked on 30 years ago but
there's a lot more of it!


Steve
 
J

javalab

I was a fast coder in my twenties but now, in my fifties I'm slower
but the end result is much better and usually bug free.

that's it. experience.
now i wait alot before starting a project or writing a line of code.
when i write it, it usually works.
ciao, j.
 
B

Bruce the Shark

Art said:
Do you have any idea what it takes to make a quality game? The
implication that a few kids can create a professional quality game in
their spare time in the garage is absurd on its face. Games require
skilled artists, level designers, music and sound composers,
animators, and programmers.

Ever heard of Jeff Minter? His games are LEGENDARY, and he started young.
Games that require all the above are usually absolute CRAP to play.
 
B

Bruce the Shark

Bruce said:
Ever heard of Jeff Minter? His games are LEGENDARY

Same goes for Chris Sawyer who wrote RollerCoaster Tycoon -- another
100% solo effort and massive hit. And even Braben who wrote Elite.
A pro-quality game does not necessarily require a large team effort.
 
B

Bruce the Shark

Bruce said:
Same goes for Chris Sawyer who wrote RollerCoaster Tycoon -- another
100% solo effort and massive hit. And even Braben who wrote Elite.
A pro-quality game does not necessarily require a large team effort.

Hell, even Wright who wrote SimCity... I could go on forever! :)
 
A

Art Rooney

mayayana said:
4) An act of generosity, because someone sees a need and
just decides to take on the job of filling it.

This is the group I'm interested in. My guess is that they're
students with a lot of free time and no financial concerns at the
moment, or that they fall into your category 6:

6) There are a vast number of people who accomplish
useful things because they've been blessed with wealth
and don't need to worry about making money.

You can't live on nothing. If you're spending a lot of time doing
work for free, you're either already financially set or don't have
many expenses and/or are still living with Mom and Dad. Just a
guess...
 
A

Art Rooney

Bruce the Shark said:
Hell, even Wright who wrote SimCity... I could go on forever! :)

RT is an Atari game, SimCity is EA. Are you saying that these guys
were the sole programmers or that they did everything (level design,
art, music, sound effects, graphics, animation, QA, etc.)?

And you'll notice that neither of these massive efforts were given
away as freeware.
 
J

Julian

Art said:
This is the group I'm interested in. My guess is that they're
students with a lot of free time and no financial concerns at the
moment, or that they fall into your category 6:

Students with no financial concerns? ROFL. That may be possible where
you come from, but over here they have to take out loans to pay for
their fees that run to about 3000 pounds (about $5000) a year.
 
S

SWREG Admin

Tony said:
We produce a free
program QSEDBUK which is a front end for public domain UK domestic
heating boiler efficiency statistics.

Sigh.. I wish I could also rub shoulders in the glamour end of the market.
<Gd&r>
 
T

Tony Bryer

SWREG Admin said:
Sigh.. I wish I could also rub shoulders in the glamour end of
the market. <Gd&r>

You're certainly making a lot more off our 'glamorous' software
than I thought you would be when we signed up with SWREG :)
 
B

Bruce the Shark

Art said:
RT is an Atari game, SimCity is EA. Are you saying that these guys
were the sole programmers or that they did everything (level design,
art, music, sound effects, graphics, animation, QA, etc.)?

The three people I mentioned (Minter, Sawyer, Wright) did indeed write
every aspect of those games themselves, solo. Atari/EA published them.
And you'll notice that neither of these massive efforts were given
away as freeware.

True, but I was making a point about one man being able to solo write
a massive hit game. :)
 
R

REM

I'm changing the topic here, I thought it might be of interest to both
freeware and shareware authors, so this is a crosspost.

We were discussing what to do with old hardware, 486's and such in ACF
awhile back and it looks like there are not many people or charities
that want this older equipment, short of pentiums.

The department instructors clean their offices every so often and
leave books and software out for the taking. Yesterday there was a
Microsoft Cobol 4.50 package out and I grabbed it. This is pretty
ancient, possibly 1991 or so, but it's still shrink wrapped. It's
possible that the install disks are bad, but the older floppies were
made quite a bit better than the new ones are.

I figured somewhere out there someone might like to have this to setup
a learning environment on an old machine. I have no idea if the
resulting programs will run on later versions of Windows or not.

The package weighs 11.5 pounds and is free for someone who will pay
the shipping charges.

Requirements:

MS-DOS or PC-DOS 3.3 or later or OS\2 1.1 or later.

8088 processor or higher - 80286 or higher required for generating MS
Windows based applications.

448k of mem (640k recommended) for DOS.
1 meg for Windows, 4 for Os\2.

5.25" disk drive or 3.5 low density drive.

5 megs of hard drive space.

I can see four books:

Compatibility Guide.
Language Reference vol 1 and 2.
Operating Guide.

The rest of the package looks to be the install disks.


From the message below, 4DOS has been set free:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<[email protected]>

"From JPSoft's email of today, annoucing their new
4NT 6.0 and Take Command 6.0, and...:

<clip>
"There will be no new version of 4DOS. 4DOS 7.50 has now been
released as a free and unsupported program; check our web site
for details"
</clip>

See their download page,
<http://www.jpsoft.com/download.htm>
under "Older Unsupported (FREE) Products"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Optional:

Sam's Teach Yourself Cobol in 21 Days (4 pounds)

I can scrounge quite a few more books. I had an armload yesterday. I'm
not sure if MS Cobol follows the standards or not. It appears to in
this package, "Includes High-Level ANSI 85 Cobol from Micro Focus."

And, if my old QEMM floppy is not corrupted, I'll throw that in.


It's an ancient package for an ancient language that will probably
still be running after we're all gone. I'd prefer it go to a learning
or computer literacy project, but I don't need any more door stops.
 
A

Art Rooney

Bruce the Shark said:
The three people I mentioned (Minter, Sawyer, Wright) did indeed write
every aspect of those games themselves, solo. Atari/EA published them.


True, but I was making a point about one man being able to solo write
a massive hit game. :)

Looks like you've found a counter example (which I'm still a bit
skeptical of :-/), but the original point I was countering is that
these kind of efforts would be given away for free and adversely
affect the game market, which I believe to be totally unfounded.
Anyone who puts that much work into a product will rightfully want to
be compensated for it. It's how capitalism works.
 
S

SWREG Admin

Tony said:
You're certainly making a lot more off our 'glamorous' software
than I thought you would be when we signed up with SWREG :)

Yes - I have been quietly impressed about that.
 

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