Warning on OneCare Settings and questions for XPerts

[Guest]

What the provide documetnation fails to go into is Temp folders in the
Windows Directory and the hidden Temp folders In the Documents and Settings
Directory often have files and folders left behind after installation needed
to uninstall programs installed by MSI technology. These are different than
the folders/files needed by say a Jet Database that won't let you delete
them. If deleted, these programs cannot be uninstalled, and they are legion,
many are MS products. And they are quite willing to allow themselves to be
deleted. With solid experience in the effects of deleting these files, I warn
anyone not to let Onecare delete these until MS can assure us that OneCare
will leave MSI intallation folders in the Temp folders alone. Otherwise, you
may well wind up stuck with a program that does not play well with others you
cannot remove. I would urge Microsoft to change MSI releases in the future to
migrate the uninstall files needed directly into the program directory they
install to.... Especially with the pain in the posterior the Activation limit
imposes. Having just run into it myself, I am no longer willing to test drive
any betas on the Windows Platform, even if running them on a virtual
platform. Every intallation of XP, and I assume Vista, will take an
activation before you can install any WGA downloads (the stuff you usually
need the most) and that will count towards your activation limit. Once you
are there, if a beta somehow penetrates the virtual machine and damages your
base OS beyond System Restores and Backups limited abilities, you'll need to
reintall it. Then you will be effectively out of business until you can get
through on the phone to reauthorize every reinstallation for activation.
Having OneCare rooting through the Temp folders is not so much a case of MS
shooting itself in the foot, it's more like they are shooting you in the
foot. Now, I could be wrong, and OneCare may avoid deleting any MSI
technology folders. But the documentation does not say that, nor does the
documentation for the OS's mention that the number of activations allowed is
limited (it actually claims it is unlimited, and if unlimited how does it
help with antipiracy? No, you are actually under the gun after a certain
number of activations.)
In fact, having just spent 2 days trying to get through for a
reauthorization, I have to question the sanity of allowing OneCare clean my
registry given the track record of most registry cleaners, If it cleans my
registry, an then an update comes in on automatic update that sets a new
restore point, I can no longer go back to the pre-registry cleaning restore
point. All I can do is restore it to the pre-update state, which will include
the now errant registry. I don't know why XP behaves this way. With Windows
ME System Restore, you could go back several set points. Oddly enough, I
never had any of the problems other folks complained about with ME and really
liked it. Is there any way to set Win XP to hold more than a single restore
point? Does MS think it should have some sort of policy for regular beta
testers to bypass that Activation limit, or does it want to lose beta testers
just when they are becoming proficient at spotting and reporting the kinds of
bugs and flaws they need data on?
Does OneCare leave MSI Temp files alone?

 

[Malke]

like I don''''t get spam already? wrote:

(snip unreadable post)

If you are serious about wanting to ask a question, please redo your post to
be concise, clear, using whitespace between paragraphs. Numbers or bullet
points are useful, too.

I do not say this to hurt your feelings in any way; it's just that your post
is impossible to read as written and very few people - even people who
*want* to help you (like me) - will bother with it. After all, if you have
a question you don't want to limit your responses.

http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

If it's just a rant, don't bother reposting. People who like to read rants
(unlike me) will read it just as it is.

Malke

 

[Guest]

A- From the quote you began your post with:

like I don''''t get spam already

1- I think you are mistakenly conflating your reply to me with
your reply to
someone else. I don't believe I even mentioned spam in my post.

2- While I did fail to catch a reversed letter mispelling, I don't
see what was
unreadable. But after so many years of participating in so
many communities
where the practices you prefer to see here was/is roundly
criticized.
I wrote in the style to which I've become accustomed.

3- I'm new to this particular community, so I thank you for
advising me for the
pointers as to how to post on this list.


B- It was not a rant. It was a report for the benefit of others on another
list with a
high volume of conversation about the One Care Beta about a dangerous
procedure
performed by the software and the potential consequences of using it
without
taking certain precautions. How it wound up here I don't know as I sent
it to that
list, not this one. I had looked it over but moved on to a more
appropriate venue

1- I can see now I should have separated the questions from the
report of
my experience with the problem; and possibly separated
several of the
issues for more specialized lists. However it was meant for
a generalized
list, where discussions about these other issues were also
occurring. I was
on it when I started the thread. Something in the system
malfunctioned.

2- My humblest apologies for wasting your time with unreadable
gibberish.

3-Thankyou for taking the time to answer the questions you
could make out.

Have a nice day




Help Disabled American Veterans reclaim the future they sacrificed in
service to our nation and world security in general. Put someone in a
wheelchair in front of a computer with the right software!

 

[Shenan Stanley]

What the provide documetnation fails to go into is Temp folders in
the Windows Directory and the hidden Temp folders In the Documents
and Settings Directory often have files and folders left behind
after installation needed to uninstall programs installed by MSI
technology. These are different than the folders/files needed by
say a Jet Database that won't let you delete them. If deleted,
these programs cannot be uninstalled, and they are legion, many are
MS products. And they are quite willing to allow themselves to be
deleted. With solid experience in the effects of deleting these
files, I warn anyone not to let Onecare delete these until MS can
assure us that OneCare will leave MSI intallation folders in the
Temp folders alone. Otherwise, you may well wind up stuck with a
program that does not play well with others you cannot remove. I
would urge Microsoft to change MSI releases in the future to
migrate the uninstall files needed directly into the program
directory they install to.... Especially with the pain in the
posterior the Activation limit imposes. Having just run into it
myself, I am no longer willing to test drive any betas on the
Windows Platform, even if running them on a virtual platform. Every
intallation of XP, and I assume Vista, will take an activation
before you can install any WGA downloads (the stuff you usually
need the most) and that will count towards your activation limit.
Once you are there, if a beta somehow penetrates the virtual
machine and damages your base OS beyond System Restores and Backups
limited abilities, you'll need to reintall it. Then you will be
effectively out of business until you can get through on the phone
to reauthorize every reinstallation for activation. Having OneCare
rooting through the Temp folders is not so much a case of MS
shooting itself in the foot, it's more like they are shooting you
in the foot. Now, I could be wrong, and OneCare may avoid deleting
any MSI technology folders. But the documentation does not say
that, nor does the documentation for the OS's mention that the
number of activations allowed is limited (it actually claims it is
unlimited, and if unlimited how does it help with antipiracy? No,
you are actually under the gun after a certain number of
activations.)
In fact, having just spent 2 days trying to get through for a
reauthorization, I have to question the sanity of allowing OneCare
clean my registry given the track record of most registry cleaners,
If it cleans my registry, an then an update comes in on automatic
update that sets a new restore point, I can no longer go back to
the pre-registry cleaning restore point. All I can do is restore it
to the pre-update state, which will include the now errant
registry. I don't know why XP behaves this way. With Windows ME
System Restore, you could go back several set points. Oddly enough,
I never had any of the problems other folks complained about with
ME and really liked it. Is there any way to set Win XP to hold more
than a single restore point? Does MS think it should have some sort
of policy for regular beta testers to bypass that Activation limit,
or does it want to lose beta testers just when they are becoming
proficient at spotting and reporting the kinds of bugs and flaws
they need data on?
Does OneCare leave MSI Temp files alone?

If you are serious about wanting to ask a question, please redo
your post to be concise, clear, using whitespace between
paragraphs. Numbers or bullet points are useful, too.

I do not say this to hurt your feelings in any way; it's just that
your post is impossible to read as written and very few people -
even people who *want* to help you (like me) - will bother with it.
After all, if you have a question you don't want to limit your
responses.

http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

If it's just a rant, don't bother reposting. People who like to
read rants (unlike me) will read it just as it is.

Some answers inline....

A- From the quote you began your post with:


1- I think you are mistakenly conflating your reply to me
with your reply to someone else. I don't believe I even
mentioned spam in my post.

Each message has a header - yours had:

-------
Thread-Topic: Warning on OneCare Settings and questions for XPerts
thread-index: Acc13tbxUa4e0DxnSMG7t0NEOfVZDQ==
X-WBNR-Posting-Host: 207.46.199.61
From: =?Utf-8?B?SW5zYW5lRXllRG9jdG9y?= <[email protected].(like I don''''t
get spam already?)>
Subject: Warning on OneCare Settings and questions for XPerts
------

Notice the From?

2- While I did fail to catch a reversed letter misspelling,
I don't see what was unreadable. But after so many years of
participating in so many communities where the practices
you prefer to see here was/is roundly criticized.
I wrote in the style to which I've become accustomed.

I do not believe your spelling mistake was the problem. It was the
compressed (no structure) layout of the original post. I cannot imagine any
online conversation/support forum that would prefer the type of post you
originally gave. When presenting ideas in writing - I feel some
organization is always necessary. ;-)

3- I'm new to this particular community, so I thank you for
advising me for the pointers as to how to post on this list.

I have no answer for this - it was not I who 'advised' you before...
However - I would be curious as to which forums/newsgroups you post to where
the lack of structure approach is the preferred?

B- It was not a rant. It was a report for the benefit of others on
another list with a high volume of conversation about the
One Care Beta about a dangerous procedure performed by
the software and the potential consequences of using it without
taking certain precautions. How it wound up here I don't know
as I sent it to that list, not this one. I had looked it over but moved
on to a more appropriate venue

Well - in order for the post to appear here - you had to post here. *grin*
I suggest the actual One Care Support Groups...

http://forums.microsoft.com/windowsonecare/default.aspx?siteid=2

1- I can see now I should have separated the questions
from the report of my experience with the problem; and possibly
separated several of the issues for more specialized lists.
However it was meant for a generalized list, where discussions
about these other issues were also occurring. I was on it when I
started the thread. Something in the system malfunctioned.

2- My humblest apologies for wasting your time with
unreadable gibberish.

3-Thankyou for taking the time to answer the questions
you could make out.

From your original post you seem to think that often things are left in the
temp folders under the profiles. This should not be true, generally -
unless you downloaded and ran the installations directly from the web... It
is always preferable you download and save the installation files before you
install them. That gives you a backup of the installation files as well as
a cleaner install and such. Not to mention that if you have the actual
installation file - you can always reinstall it and then uninstall it
properly without issue.

Having said that - OneCare is no different than any other such technology...
You can only 'dumb-down' things so much - there is still a level of control
and research the user must have to maintain their own system. To me - any
blind dependence on such technology is laziness and just asking for trouble.
;-)