view workgroup computers

[Li'l Roberto]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:31:31 +0930, "Li'l Roberto"
<[email protected]>
wrote:



On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:11:53 +0930, "Li'l Roberto"
<[email protected]>
wrote:


On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:29:21 +0800, Helob
<[email protected]>
wrote:


On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:47:36 +0930, "Li'l Roberto"
<[email protected]>
wrote:

<SNIP>

Chuck
here are the browstat and ipconfig files you requested, hope
this
gives
you a clearer picture
thanks
Robert
=================================================
XP Home system

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.


C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Armitage>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : roberto
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110
Family
Gigabit
Ethernet NIC
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0C-76-B9-62-CF
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 203.87.88.1
203.87.88.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, 24 July 2005
10:10:39 AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, 25 July 2005
10:10:39 AM

C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Armitage>
Status for domain MSHOME on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{1709D4F2-524E-4407-9B9E-83517B0F1D18}
Browsing is active on domain.
Master browser name is: ROBERTO
Master browser is running build 2600
1 backup servers retrieved from master ROBERTO
\\ROBERTO
There are 1 servers in domain MSHOME on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{1709D4F2-524E-4407-9B9E-83517B0F1D18}
There are 1 domains in domain MSHOME on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{1709D4F2-524E-4407-9B9E-83517B0F1D18}
=====================================================================================
XP PRO system

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Roberto>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : pentium3
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : SiS 900-Based PCI Fast
Ethernet
Adap
ter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-01-6C-AA-03-29
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.101
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 203.87.88.1
203.87.88.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, 24 July 2005
9:29:21
PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, 25 July 2005
9:29:21
PM

C:\Documents and Settings\Roberto>

Status for domain MSHOME on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{B24E3489-E068-4654-A63D-C2170857ECE3}
Browsing is active on domain.
Master browser name is: ROBERTO
Could not connect to registry, error = 53 Unable to
determine
build
of browser master: 53
\\\\ROBERTO . Version:05.01 Flags: 51203 NT POTENTIAL
MASTER
1 backup servers retrieved from master ROBERTO
\\ROBERTO
There are 2 servers in domain MSHOME on transport
\Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{B24E3489-E068-4654-A63D-C2170857ECE3}
Unable to retrieve server list from ROBERTO: 64
========================================================================

Roberto,

OK, a good start. Here's what we know.
# Both computers are getting DHCP settings, so physical
connectivity
is
less
likely.
# Both computers are Node Type Unknown.
# Both computers are using only NetBIOS Over TCP/IP.
# Both computers have elected Roberto as the master browser.
# Pentium3 has problem resolving Roberto ("error = 53"). This is
in
keeping
with your stated symptoms.
# Roberto sees only 1 server from browstat, though Pentium3 sees
both
servers.

Check misconfigured / overlooked firewalls.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/your-personal-firewall-can-either-help.html>
Check registry setting restrictanonymous.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/07/restrictanonymous-and-your-server.html>
Chuck,
I noticed that Pentium3 has WINS Proxy Enabled whereas
Roberto didn't.
Does it matter in this case?

Helob,

Good eye. The latency Roberto describes could well be WINS Proxy
activity
related.

Roberto,

Please edit
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\NetBT\Parameters\EnableProxy]
on Pentium3, and change it from a "1" to "2". Instructions for
using
Regedit:
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/07/registry-editor.html>

Microsoft's articles on WINS Proxy:
<http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...00/server/reskit/en-us/cnet/cncd_win_vzlw.asp>
<http://support.microsoft.com/?id=121004>

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]

Chuck
changing the value to 2 and running ipconfig /all still showed
wins
proxy enabled, setting the value to 0 disabled wins proxy.
But still no resolution of the problem.
I run F-PROT for windows Ver 3.16c only - no firewall

Robert

How about some background about your LAN? How old are the computers?
How long
have they been setup this way? When did you first observe this
problem?
Any
chance you could have a friend over, or borrow another computer, and
see
if the
problem reproduces itself on another computer?

Chuck
here are the system details, I have posted in line hope you are
comfortable with this.

Main PC; Pentium4 2.8GHz 512MB RAM on board Realtek 8110S chip
10/100/1000Mb LAN , fully patched with only critical updates and
runs
mainly business software Office, MYOB etc, system is 6 months old.

Pentium3; AMD Opteron 2600 CPU 256MB RAM XP PRO +SP2 Realtek 8139D chip
10/100Mb LAN has just been built and doesn't have any additional
software
installed.
I noticed the problem when the network setup was completed and I
was
testing it, [I have had other XP Home PCs connected in the past
in
same configuration without this behaviour so it's new to me].

Last night I set up another PC [P3 1GHz 256MB RAM Realtek NIC and
got
the same results EG if I turn off the XP firewall everything
works
as expected.

When you display Network Neighborhood on the computer with the shared
folders,
is it displaying its own shared folders, but with no delay? What's
special
about the folders being displayed - any folders with a lot of content?
Large
size?

All shares are displayed in both shortcut to MNP on the Desktop
and
in Explorer on both PCs, at this point only the default shared
Documents folder is shared on the P4, I have shared the D: drive
on
the P3, which has one folder [couple of small files]. All shared
folders are visible and there is no delay in opening them. Only
when
I D/Click "View workgroup computers" to open the computer icon from
either location [explorer or MNP] does the delay occur.

*This only occurs from the P3, not the other way*.

What happens if you close Network Neighborhood and reopen - does the
problem
repeat?

Every time

Try analysing what the computers are doing. Get Process Explorer
(free)
from
<http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/freeware/procexp.shtml>. PE is
like
Task
Manager, but it displays way more information. You can display tasks
sorted by
CPU utilisation percentage, by start time, and by a finer metric,
context
switches and context switches delta (the latter 3 you add to the
default
view
from View - Select Columns). Start PE on both computers, then try
doing
the
Network Neighborhood display. Sort the displays on both computers in
various
ways, and see what task pops up to the top of the list. Run Task
Manager
too,
and watch the Network Utilisation display.

I have installed PE,set the view the way you described and
observed
the proceedings.
Whilst D/Ling PE from the net to P3 the network utilisation was
sitting
on 0.23%, when I reproduce the hang Task Manager shows CPU usage
going
to 7% then quickly dropping back to zero , network utilisation at
zero.
I'm not familiar with PE, so you may have to guide me through
what
I am looking for. Should I post a screen dump ? most don't like
this
so I don't want to get off side here.

Robert

Robert,

That's a good start. So now you've experimented with 3 computers, and
observed
the same problem on 2 of them. Does the third computer (the one NOT
exhibiting
the problem) display the same shares and folders as the other two (in
other
words, its own shares, and the shares of the computer exhibiting the
problem)?

If that's the case, then I think you should be examining the computer
with
the
shares. So run Process Explorer and Task Manager on the server (the one
causing
the problem). Task Manager will display network activity, and Process
Explorer
will display application and system activity.

With regard to Process Explorer, what I'm after is what processes are
using
resources when the problem is being observed. One of the most obvious
resource
metrics is CPU activity, but even that is not precise enough sometimes.
So the
developer of PE found another metric - Context Switch Delta - which is
another
measure of activity. You can sort on either metric, by clicking on the
specific
column. Watch what happens when you do that. Then watch the PE and TM
displays, when you are accessing MNP from one of the clients.

Let's not worry with screen dumps. What you're looking for you will
have
to
observe as your problem is happening anyway. You'll just have to watch
Task
Manager and Process Explorer, and see what activity is happening while
you
are
observing the problem, that isn't happening when you're not observing
the
problem. Then see what is happening when the client (either client?)
has
firewall disabled, and compare to what happens when the firewall is
enabled.

Now to your problem descriptions, which occasionally are a little vague
in
specifics. The details are OK, but I have trouble tracking the players
in
the
game.

Chuck
sorry for the confusion, my replies are in line below

Which computer are you turning the firewall off and on? The server
(which
is
Roberto?) or the client (which is Pentinum3?)?? Did I get the
relationships
right?

Roberto is the server, Pentium3 is the client
Roberto has the firewall turned on and then of during the tests

*This only occurs from the P3, not the other way*. Please define
"from".
Is "from" the computer observing the problem, or the computer with the
shares?
How about you say "The problem is observed when opening MNP on Pentium3,
with
the bulk of the shares being present on Roberto", in other words
identify
the
client (where you observe the problem), and identify the server (the
computer
with the shares). And identify them by name, so I can match the
symptoms
to the
ipconfig logs.
OK

Now as to the third computer, you refer to "the same results EG if
I
turn
off the XP firewall everything works as expected". WTF is expected?
What
do you expect? Would "the observation when using the third computer
(maybe a
computer name here too) is the same as when using Pentium3, ie the 20
second
delay when opening MNP, with the firewall enabled on that computer" be a
more
accurate description?

I expect the same behaviour from either PC when accessing shares - no
delay in opening shares
To keep it simple perhaps we can disregard the third PC as the
delay
appears using it or Pentium3, so it tends to point to something
amiss
on Roberto ?.

I have done the following on Roberto with firewall enabled :
opened TM and PE
from Pentium3 I have D/Clicked on show workgroup computers, and
observed
TM & PE

PE shows Cswitch delta value
system idle procees 96%
process explorer 160
interupts 136
DPCs 73
csrrs.exe 75
System 42

there were no sudden spikes in those numbers during the process

TM showed
network utilisation 0

if you are happy with these proceedures I will do the tests again
with
the firewall turned off on Roberto

thanks
Robert

Chuck
here are the new ipconfig files as requested, plus PE & TM results

If the problem originates from Roberto, you need to watch what Roberto is
doing
while Pentium3 is apparently waiting for it (System idle = 97%).

maybe I threw a red herring by saying the problem is coming from
Roberto ?, they were my thoughts only -shall we disregard it?

When you disable the firewall, are you disabling it on Pentium3 or on
Roberto?

I am disabling the firewall on Roberto, firewall on Pentium3 is on [on
or off doesn't make a difference as far as the test goes]

How about posting updated "ipconfig /all" for both Pentium3 and Roberto?

This is the "server" it has no problem accessing client [Pentium3]

C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Armitage>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : roberto
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family
Gigabit
Ethernet NIC
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0C-76-B9-62-CF
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 203.87.88.1
203.87.88.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, 27 July 2005 9:06:11
AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, 28 July 2005 9:06:11
AM


C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Armitage>
==========================================================
This is the "client" which is hanging whilst accessing server [Roberto]

C:\Documents and Settings\Technician>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : pentium3
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : SiS 900-Based PCI Fast Ethernet
Adap
ter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-01-6C-AA-03-29
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.101
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 203.87.88.1
203.87.88.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, 27 July 2005 9:15:42
AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, 28 July 2005 9:15:42
AM

C:\Documents and Settings\Technician>
============================================================

When I am doing the test I have PE open on the server [Roberto] and
watching what is happening as
Pentium3 is accessing Roberto.
Does this clarify which PC is accessing, and which PC is being
accessed ?.

Here are my observations using PE, the list of processes below for
each PC did not change whilst running the test
EG nothing jumped up to the top, all and were stable.
Roberto
system idle process 96.07%
interrupts
DPCs
smss.exe
csrss.exe
winlogon.exe
=========================================
Pentium3
system idle process 99.69%
interupts
DPCs
smss.exe
csrss.exe
winlogon.exe
==========================================
Here are my observations from TM when I D/Click on the Pentium4[Roberto
icon]

Pentium3 to Roberto [observed on Pentium3]
network utilisation went to 0.08%

same test observed from Roberto
network utilisation remained at 0%
==========================================
going in reverse direction, from Roberto to Pentium3
network utilisation on Roberto went to 0.1%

same test [observed from Pentium3]
network utilisation 0.1%

hope this information is useful to you

thanks
Robert

 

[Chuck]

Chuck
here are the new ipconfig files as requested, plus PE & TM results

If the problem originates from Roberto, you need to watch what Roberto is
doing
while Pentium3 is apparently waiting for it (System idle = 97%).

maybe I threw a red herring by saying the problem is coming from
Roberto ?, they were my thoughts only -shall we disregard it?

When you disable the firewall, are you disabling it on Pentium3 or on
Roberto?

I am disabling the firewall on Roberto, firewall on Pentium3 is on [on
or off doesn't make a difference as far as the test goes]

How about posting updated "ipconfig /all" for both Pentium3 and Roberto?

This is the "server" it has no problem accessing client [Pentium3]

C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Armitage>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : roberto
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family
Gigabit
Ethernet NIC
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0C-76-B9-62-CF
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 203.87.88.1
203.87.88.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, 27 July 2005 9:06:11
AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, 28 July 2005 9:06:11
AM


C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Armitage>
==========================================================
This is the "client" which is hanging whilst accessing server [Roberto]

C:\Documents and Settings\Technician>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : pentium3
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : SiS 900-Based PCI Fast Ethernet
Adap
ter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-01-6C-AA-03-29
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.101
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 203.87.88.1
203.87.88.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, 27 July 2005 9:15:42
AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, 28 July 2005 9:15:42
AM

C:\Documents and Settings\Technician>
============================================================

When I am doing the test I have PE open on the server [Roberto] and
watching what is happening as
Pentium3 is accessing Roberto.
Does this clarify which PC is accessing, and which PC is being
accessed ?.

Here are my observations using PE, the list of processes below for
each PC did not change whilst running the test
EG nothing jumped up to the top, all and were stable.
Roberto
system idle process 96.07%
interrupts
DPCs
smss.exe
csrss.exe
winlogon.exe
=========================================
Pentium3
system idle process 99.69%
interupts
DPCs
smss.exe
csrss.exe
winlogon.exe
==========================================
Here are my observations from TM when I D/Click on the Pentium4[Roberto
icon]

Pentium3 to Roberto [observed on Pentium3]
network utilisation went to 0.08%

same test observed from Roberto
network utilisation remained at 0%
==========================================
going in reverse direction, from Roberto to Pentium3
network utilisation on Roberto went to 0.1%

same test [observed from Pentium3]
network utilisation 0.1%

hope this information is useful to you

thanks
Robert

Robert,

OK, let me summarise what you're reporting, then describe what we're looking
for.

You are observing latency, and pretty consistent latency. Pentium3, when
starting Windows Explorer, waits 15 - 20 seconds before displaying the contents
of Network Neighborhood. This only occurs when the firewall on Roberto, the
server, is on.

When Windows Explorer is open on Roberto, and displays the identical shares,
this latency does NOT occur. Windows Explorer on Roberto, regardless of
firewalls on either computer, does NOT exhibit any latency.

Latency might be caused by one of two things - resource unavailability, and
network timeout. So for one, we want to watch activity on both Pentium3 and
Roberto while the latency is observed. For the other, I was looking for a
network issue, such as maybe name resolution.

Now name resolution could be an issue, if you were attempting server based
resolution on a network with no WINS server. The Unknown node type, on a WINS
network, will be treated like Hybrid, or H-node, which will attempt to use a
WINS server; if no server is available, will try Broadcast resolution.
<http://support.microsoft.com/?id=160177>

But you have removed all references to WINS (ie, you cleaned up the WINS proxy
issue), and the latency continues.

So we're left wondering what service is being blocked by the firewall. You
state that you have File and Printer Sharing enabled, for the subnet, in Windows
Firewall.

The above is a brief summary of my thoughts. Is this in agreement with your
observations? I will be rethinking all of these issues for a while, looking for
additional question, and for corrections.

What is the history of Pentium3 and Roberto? How long have they been in use?
How long have they been in use with this network configuration? And special
software on either, now or in the past?

Hopefully some of the above questions will prompt questions from you.

 

[Li'l Roberto]

Chuck
here are the new ipconfig files as requested, plus PE & TM results

If the problem originates from Roberto, you need to watch what Roberto is
doing
while Pentium3 is apparently waiting for it (System idle = 97%).

maybe I threw a red herring by saying the problem is coming from
Roberto ?, they were my thoughts only -shall we disregard it?

When you disable the firewall, are you disabling it on Pentium3 or on
Roberto?

I am disabling the firewall on Roberto, firewall on Pentium3 is on [on
or off doesn't make a difference as far as the test goes]

How about posting updated "ipconfig /all" for both Pentium3 and Roberto?

This is the "server" it has no problem accessing client [Pentium3]

C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Armitage>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : roberto
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family
Gigabit
Ethernet NIC
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0C-76-B9-62-CF
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 203.87.88.1
203.87.88.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, 27 July 2005 9:06:11
AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, 28 July 2005 9:06:11
AM


C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Armitage>
==========================================================
This is the "client" which is hanging whilst accessing server [Roberto]

C:\Documents and Settings\Technician>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : pentium3
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : SiS 900-Based PCI Fast Ethernet
Adap
ter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-01-6C-AA-03-29
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.101
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 203.87.88.1
203.87.88.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, 27 July 2005 9:15:42
AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, 28 July 2005 9:15:42
AM

C:\Documents and Settings\Technician>
============================================================

When I am doing the test I have PE open on the server [Roberto] and
watching what is happening as
Pentium3 is accessing Roberto.
Does this clarify which PC is accessing, and which PC is being
accessed ?.

Here are my observations using PE, the list of processes below for
each PC did not change whilst running the test
EG nothing jumped up to the top, all and were stable.
Roberto
system idle process 96.07%
interrupts
DPCs
smss.exe
csrss.exe
winlogon.exe
=========================================
Pentium3
system idle process 99.69%
interupts
DPCs
smss.exe
csrss.exe
winlogon.exe
==========================================
Here are my observations from TM when I D/Click on the Pentium4[Roberto
icon]

Pentium3 to Roberto [observed on Pentium3]
network utilisation went to 0.08%

same test observed from Roberto
network utilisation remained at 0%
==========================================
going in reverse direction, from Roberto to Pentium3
network utilisation on Roberto went to 0.1%

same test [observed from Pentium3]
network utilisation 0.1%

hope this information is useful to you

thanks
Robert

Robert,

OK, let me summarise what you're reporting, then describe what we're looking
for.

You are observing latency, and pretty consistent latency. Pentium3, when
starting Windows Explorer, waits 15 - 20 seconds before displaying the contents
of Network Neighborhood. This only occurs when the firewall on Roberto, the
server, is on.

When Windows Explorer is open on Roberto, and displays the identical shares,
this latency does NOT occur. Windows Explorer on Roberto, regardless of
firewalls on either computer, does NOT exhibit any latency.

Latency might be caused by one of two things - resource unavailability, and
network timeout. So for one, we want to watch activity on both Pentium3 and
Roberto while the latency is observed. For the other, I was looking for a
network issue, such as maybe name resolution.

Now name resolution could be an issue, if you were attempting server based
resolution on a network with no WINS server. The Unknown node type, on a WINS
network, will be treated like Hybrid, or H-node, which will attempt to use a
WINS server; if no server is available, will try Broadcast resolution.
<http://support.microsoft.com/?id=160177>

But you have removed all references to WINS (ie, you cleaned up the WINS proxy
issue), and the latency continues.

So we're left wondering what service is being blocked by the firewall. You
state that you have File and Printer Sharing enabled, for the subnet, in Windows
Firewall.

The above is a brief summary of my thoughts. Is this in agreement with your
observations? I will be rethinking all of these issues for a while, looking for
additional question, and for corrections.

What is the history of Pentium3 and Roberto? How long have they been in use?
How long have they been in use with this network configuration? And special
software on either, now or in the past?

Hopefully some of the above questions will prompt questions from you.

Chuck
again thanks for you time ,you are spot on with your understanding of the problem,
Roberto as been up for around six months and is fully patched, it's my main PC and runs

MYOB, OfficeXP, ECI Client [ability to logon to the Australian Tax Office Server and do Tax related transactions on line], Wall Watcher, Adobe Reader,
Sun Java [required for ECI Client ], Firefly, Dot NET [all updates], PC Eye web Cam software, Google World. NASA World Wind, Nero Express DVD/CD-RW,Messenger, Spy Bot S&D, Ad-Aware F-PROT for Windows, that's about it.
FWIW I have created Peer to PEER LANs with XP home [never Pro though] based PCs in the past since Roberto was built, with out this problem occurring, I noticed the problem as soon as Pentium3 was setup to join Roberto.
Pentium3 is a fresh built system, no other software installed.

Robert

 

[Li'l Roberto]

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:53:37 +0930, "Li'l Roberto"
<[email protected]>
wrote:

Chuck
here are the new ipconfig files as requested, plus PE & TM results

If the problem originates from Roberto, you need to watch what Roberto
is
doing
while Pentium3 is apparently waiting for it (System idle = 97%).

maybe I threw a red herring by saying the problem is coming from
Roberto ?, they were my thoughts only -shall we disregard it?

When you disable the firewall, are you disabling it on Pentium3 or on
Roberto?

I am disabling the firewall on Roberto, firewall on Pentium3 is on
[on
or off doesn't make a difference as far as the test goes]

How about posting updated "ipconfig /all" for both Pentium3 and Roberto?

This is the "server" it has no problem accessing client [Pentium3]

C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Armitage>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : roberto
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family
Gigabit
Ethernet NIC
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0C-76-B9-62-CF
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 203.87.88.1
203.87.88.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, 27 July 2005
9:06:11
AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, 28 July 2005 9:06:11
AM


C:\Documents and Settings\Robert Armitage>
==========================================================
This is the "client" which is hanging whilst accessing server
[Roberto]

C:\Documents and Settings\Technician>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : pentium3
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : SiS 900-Based PCI Fast
Ethernet
Adap
ter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-01-6C-AA-03-29
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.101
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 203.87.88.1
203.87.88.2
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Wednesday, 27 July 2005
9:15:42
AM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, 28 July 2005 9:15:42
AM

C:\Documents and Settings\Technician>
============================================================

When I am doing the test I have PE open on the server [Roberto] and
watching what is happening as
Pentium3 is accessing Roberto.
Does this clarify which PC is accessing, and which PC is being
accessed ?.

Here are my observations using PE, the list of processes below for
each PC did not change whilst running the test
EG nothing jumped up to the top, all and were stable.
Roberto
system idle process 96.07%
interrupts
DPCs
smss.exe
csrss.exe
winlogon.exe
=========================================
Pentium3
system idle process 99.69%
interupts
DPCs
smss.exe
csrss.exe
winlogon.exe
==========================================
Here are my observations from TM when I D/Click on the Pentium4[Roberto
icon]

Pentium3 to Roberto [observed on Pentium3]
network utilisation went to 0.08%

same test observed from Roberto
network utilisation remained at 0%
==========================================
going in reverse direction, from Roberto to Pentium3
network utilisation on Roberto went to 0.1%

same test [observed from Pentium3]
network utilisation 0.1%

hope this information is useful to you

thanks
Robert

Robert,

OK, let me summarise what you're reporting, then describe what we're
looking
for.

You are observing latency, and pretty consistent latency. Pentium3, when
starting Windows Explorer, waits 15 - 20 seconds before displaying the
contents
of Network Neighborhood. This only occurs when the firewall on Roberto,
the
server, is on.

When Windows Explorer is open on Roberto, and displays the identical
shares,
this latency does NOT occur. Windows Explorer on Roberto, regardless of
firewalls on either computer, does NOT exhibit any latency.

Latency might be caused by one of two things - resource unavailability,
and
network timeout. So for one, we want to watch activity on both Pentium3
and
Roberto while the latency is observed. For the other, I was looking for a
network issue, such as maybe name resolution.

Now name resolution could be an issue, if you were attempting server based
resolution on a network with no WINS server. The Unknown node type, on a
WINS
network, will be treated like Hybrid, or H-node, which will attempt to use
a
WINS server; if no server is available, will try Broadcast resolution.
<http://support.microsoft.com/?id=160177>

But you have removed all references to WINS (ie, you cleaned up the WINS
proxy
issue), and the latency continues.

So we're left wondering what service is being blocked by the firewall.
You
state that you have File and Printer Sharing enabled, for the subnet, in
Windows
Firewall.

The above is a brief summary of my thoughts. Is this in agreement with
your
observations? I will be rethinking all of these issues for a while,
looking for
additional question, and for corrections.

What is the history of Pentium3 and Roberto? How long have they been in
use?
How long have they been in use with this network configuration? And
special
software on either, now or in the past?

Hopefully some of the above questions will prompt questions from you.

Chuck
again thanks for you time ,you are spot on with your understanding of
the problem,
Roberto as been up for around six months and is fully patched, it's
my main PC and runs

MYOB, OfficeXP, ECI Client [ability to logon to the Australian Tax
Office Server and do Tax related transactions on line], Wall Watcher,
Adobe Reader,
Sun Java [required for ECI Client ], Firefly, Dot NET [all updates], PC
Eye web Cam software, Google World. NASA World Wind, Nero Express
DVD/CD-RW,Messenger, Spy Bot S&D, Ad-Aware F-PROT for Windows, that's about
it.
FWIW I have created Peer to PEER LANs with XP home [never Pro though]
based PCs in the past since Roberto was built, with out this problem
occurring, I noticed the problem as soon as Pentium3 was setup to
join Roberto.
Pentium3 is a fresh built system, no other software installed.

Robert

Chuck
Here is some additional info on the problem, given that in the past
XPHE to XPHE never produced this slowness, I decided to install Win98SE
on Pentium3 out of curiosity. The problem did not appear, so it seems
as if it is something to do with the XP Pro installation ?.
Does this give you some thing more to work on as to what might be
causing the problem.

Robert

 

[Chuck]

Robert,

OK, let me summarise what you're reporting, then describe what we're
looking
for.

You are observing latency, and pretty consistent latency. Pentium3, when
starting Windows Explorer, waits 15 - 20 seconds before displaying the
contents
of Network Neighborhood. This only occurs when the firewall on Roberto,
the
server, is on.

When Windows Explorer is open on Roberto, and displays the identical
shares,
this latency does NOT occur. Windows Explorer on Roberto, regardless of
firewalls on either computer, does NOT exhibit any latency.

Latency might be caused by one of two things - resource unavailability,
and
network timeout. So for one, we want to watch activity on both Pentium3
and
Roberto while the latency is observed. For the other, I was looking for a
network issue, such as maybe name resolution.

Now name resolution could be an issue, if you were attempting server based
resolution on a network with no WINS server. The Unknown node type, on a
WINS
network, will be treated like Hybrid, or H-node, which will attempt to use
a
WINS server; if no server is available, will try Broadcast resolution.
<http://support.microsoft.com/?id=160177>

But you have removed all references to WINS (ie, you cleaned up the WINS
proxy
issue), and the latency continues.

So we're left wondering what service is being blocked by the firewall.
You
state that you have File and Printer Sharing enabled, for the subnet, in
Windows
Firewall.

The above is a brief summary of my thoughts. Is this in agreement with
your
observations? I will be rethinking all of these issues for a while,
looking for
additional question, and for corrections.

What is the history of Pentium3 and Roberto? How long have they been in
use?
How long have they been in use with this network configuration? And
special
software on either, now or in the past?

Hopefully some of the above questions will prompt questions from you.

Chuck
again thanks for you time ,you are spot on with your understanding of
the problem,
Roberto as been up for around six months and is fully patched, it's
my main PC and runs

MYOB, OfficeXP, ECI Client [ability to logon to the Australian Tax
Office Server and do Tax related transactions on line], Wall Watcher,
Adobe Reader,
Sun Java [required for ECI Client ], Firefly, Dot NET [all updates], PC
Eye web Cam software, Google World. NASA World Wind, Nero Express
DVD/CD-RW,Messenger, Spy Bot S&D, Ad-Aware F-PROT for Windows, that's about
it.
FWIW I have created Peer to PEER LANs with XP home [never Pro though]
based PCs in the past since Roberto was built, with out this problem
occurring, I noticed the problem as soon as Pentium3 was setup to
join Roberto.
Pentium3 is a fresh built system, no other software installed.

Robert

Chuck
Here is some additional info on the problem, given that in the past
XPHE to XPHE never produced this slowness, I decided to install Win98SE
on Pentium3 out of curiosity. The problem did not appear, so it seems
as if it is something to do with the XP Pro installation ?.
Does this give you some thing more to work on as to what might be
causing the problem.

Robert

Robert,

So now you have a Windows XP Home server (Roberto), and a Windows 98 client
(Pentium3)? And the problem has been resolved?

If that's true, then the problem would appear to be related to the install of
Windows XP Pro on Pentium3. Unfortunately, you have destroyed any traces of the
problem.

I guess the next question is whether re installing XP Pro on Pentium3 will
restore the problem? If you're up for that, being as you paid for Windows XP
Pro, right?

 

[Li'l Roberto]

Robert,

OK, let me summarise what you're reporting, then describe what we're
looking
for.

You are observing latency, and pretty consistent latency. Pentium3,
when
starting Windows Explorer, waits 15 - 20 seconds before displaying the
contents
of Network Neighborhood. This only occurs when the firewall on Roberto,
the
server, is on.

When Windows Explorer is open on Roberto, and displays the identical
shares,
this latency does NOT occur. Windows Explorer on Roberto, regardless of
firewalls on either computer, does NOT exhibit any latency.

Latency might be caused by one of two things - resource unavailability,
and
network timeout. So for one, we want to watch activity on both Pentium3
and
Roberto while the latency is observed. For the other, I was looking for
a
network issue, such as maybe name resolution.

Now name resolution could be an issue, if you were attempting server
based
resolution on a network with no WINS server. The Unknown node type, on
a
WINS
network, will be treated like Hybrid, or H-node, which will attempt to
use
a
WINS server; if no server is available, will try Broadcast resolution.
<http://support.microsoft.com/?id=160177>

But you have removed all references to WINS (ie, you cleaned up the WINS
proxy
issue), and the latency continues.

So we're left wondering what service is being blocked by the firewall.
You
state that you have File and Printer Sharing enabled, for the subnet, in
Windows
Firewall.

The above is a brief summary of my thoughts. Is this in agreement with
your
observations? I will be rethinking all of these issues for a while,
looking for
additional question, and for corrections.

What is the history of Pentium3 and Roberto? How long have they been in
use?
How long have they been in use with this network configuration? And
special
software on either, now or in the past?

Hopefully some of the above questions will prompt questions from you.

Chuck
again thanks for you time ,you are spot on with your understanding
of
the problem,
Roberto as been up for around six months and is fully patched,
it's
my main PC and runs

MYOB, OfficeXP, ECI Client [ability to logon to the Australian Tax
Office Server and do Tax related transactions on line], Wall
Watcher,
Adobe Reader,
Sun Java [required for ECI Client ], Firefly, Dot NET [all updates], PC
Eye web Cam software, Google World. NASA World Wind, Nero Express
DVD/CD-RW,Messenger, Spy Bot S&D, Ad-Aware F-PROT for Windows, that's
about
it.
FWIW I have created Peer to PEER LANs with XP home [never Pro though]
based PCs in the past since Roberto was built, with out this problem
occurring, I noticed the problem as soon as Pentium3 was setup to
join Roberto.
Pentium3 is a fresh built system, no other software installed.

Robert

Chuck
Here is some additional info on the problem, given that in the
past
XPHE to XPHE never produced this slowness, I decided to install
Win98SE
on Pentium3 out of curiosity. The problem did not appear, so it
seems
as if it is something to do with the XP Pro installation ?.
Does this give you some thing more to work on as to what might
be
causing the problem.

Robert

Chuck
my answers are in line

So now you have a Windows XP Home server (Roberto), and a Windows 98
client
(Pentium3)? And the problem has been resolved?
Correct

If that's true, then the problem would appear to be related to the install
of
Windows XP Pro on Pentium3. Unfortunately, you have destroyed any traces
of the
problem.

No, I am using bootitng images, I have the different OS's on a
seperate partition.

I guess the next question is whether re installing XP Pro on Pentium3 will
restore the problem? If you're up for that, being as you paid for Windows
XP
Pro, right?

Right
FWIW I even used my XP HE CD and did an install just to see if that
would work - no joy.

Anyway I'll be setting up an XP Small Business Server 2003 here
shortly, mainly for my own knowledge [as well as use] so this issue
with XP Pro, whilst annoying will not enter the equation [hopefully] as I
will have a domain.
That is, when I learn to configure it !!.

I have another question, for you :
With regards the XP Pro Upgrade CD, I am sure it is possible to use
this type of CD to preform a fresh install of XP Pro on a system
without an OS. During the initial set up proceess you will asked to
provide as complying product [eg Win98SE], put that CD in the drive,
once verified the installation will continue.

I rang Microsoft to verify this but was told by a support person
this is not correct, and there needs to be a base OS in place
already for the XP install to build on.

Have you had any personal experience going the upgrade that with XP,
if so is it possible to preform a clean install with the upgrade CD.

Robert

Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.

 

[Chuck]

news:[email protected]...

Robert,

OK, let me summarise what you're reporting, then describe what we're
looking
for.

You are observing latency, and pretty consistent latency. Pentium3,
when
starting Windows Explorer, waits 15 - 20 seconds before displaying the
contents
of Network Neighborhood. This only occurs when the firewall on Roberto,
the
server, is on.

When Windows Explorer is open on Roberto, and displays the identical
shares,
this latency does NOT occur. Windows Explorer on Roberto, regardless of
firewalls on either computer, does NOT exhibit any latency.

Latency might be caused by one of two things - resource unavailability,
and
network timeout. So for one, we want to watch activity on both Pentium3
and
Roberto while the latency is observed. For the other, I was looking for
a
network issue, such as maybe name resolution.

Now name resolution could be an issue, if you were attempting server
based
resolution on a network with no WINS server. The Unknown node type, on
a
WINS
network, will be treated like Hybrid, or H-node, which will attempt to
use
a
WINS server; if no server is available, will try Broadcast resolution.
<http://support.microsoft.com/?id=160177>

But you have removed all references to WINS (ie, you cleaned up the WINS
proxy
issue), and the latency continues.

So we're left wondering what service is being blocked by the firewall.
You
state that you have File and Printer Sharing enabled, for the subnet, in
Windows
Firewall.

The above is a brief summary of my thoughts. Is this in agreement with
your
observations? I will be rethinking all of these issues for a while,
looking for
additional question, and for corrections.

What is the history of Pentium3 and Roberto? How long have they been in
use?
How long have they been in use with this network configuration? And
special
software on either, now or in the past?

Hopefully some of the above questions will prompt questions from you.


Chuck
again thanks for you time ,you are spot on with your understanding
of
the problem,
Roberto as been up for around six months and is fully patched,
it's
my main PC and runs

MYOB, OfficeXP, ECI Client [ability to logon to the Australian Tax
Office Server and do Tax related transactions on line], Wall
Watcher,
Adobe Reader,
Sun Java [required for ECI Client ], Firefly, Dot NET [all updates], PC
Eye web Cam software, Google World. NASA World Wind, Nero Express
DVD/CD-RW,Messenger, Spy Bot S&D, Ad-Aware F-PROT for Windows, that's
about
it.
FWIW I have created Peer to PEER LANs with XP home [never Pro though]
based PCs in the past since Roberto was built, with out this problem
occurring, I noticed the problem as soon as Pentium3 was setup to
join Roberto.
Pentium3 is a fresh built system, no other software installed.

Robert

Chuck
Here is some additional info on the problem, given that in the
past
XPHE to XPHE never produced this slowness, I decided to install
Win98SE
on Pentium3 out of curiosity. The problem did not appear, so it
seems
as if it is something to do with the XP Pro installation ?.
Does this give you some thing more to work on as to what might
be
causing the problem.

Robert

Chuck
my answers are in line

So now you have a Windows XP Home server (Roberto), and a Windows 98
client
(Pentium3)? And the problem has been resolved?
Correct

If that's true, then the problem would appear to be related to the install
of
Windows XP Pro on Pentium3. Unfortunately, you have destroyed any traces
of the
problem.

No, I am using bootitng images, I have the different OS's on a
seperate partition.

I guess the next question is whether re installing XP Pro on Pentium3 will
restore the problem? If you're up for that, being as you paid for Windows
XP
Pro, right?

Right
FWIW I even used my XP HE CD and did an install just to see if that
would work - no joy.

Anyway I'll be setting up an XP Small Business Server 2003 here
shortly, mainly for my own knowledge [as well as use] so this issue
with XP Pro, whilst annoying will not enter the equation [hopefully] as I
will have a domain.
That is, when I learn to configure it !!.

I have another question, for you :
With regards the XP Pro Upgrade CD, I am sure it is possible to use
this type of CD to preform a fresh install of XP Pro on a system
without an OS. During the initial set up proceess you will asked to
provide as complying product [eg Win98SE], put that CD in the drive,
once verified the installation will continue.

I rang Microsoft to verify this but was told by a support person
this is not correct, and there needs to be a base OS in place
already for the XP install to build on.

Have you had any personal experience going the upgrade that with XP,
if so is it possible to preform a clean install with the upgrade CD.

Robert

Robert,

I did a clean upgrade install once, and it went as you are hoping. There may be
different upgrades, though. Did the MS support person request any details like
license number, that might have told him some detail about the upgrade?

I've seen this debate rage endlessly in one forum, and the consensus was finally
that the OP (ie you) would have to "try it and see". I suspect that's the only
valid answer. This is Microsoft, and they are sneakier than a used card
salesman with their EULAs, licenses, and upgrades.

So what you're saying is that you did re install XP Pro on Pentium3, and the
problem returned? Is the problem currently with you? Are you installing your
server over the problem, or on another computer? Remember that XP HE won't join
a domain, so you could be opening another can of worms.

 

[Li'l Roberto]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 16:45:03 +0930, "Li'l Roberto"
<[email protected]>
wrote:





<SNIP>

Robert,

OK, let me summarise what you're reporting, then describe what we're
looking
for.

You are observing latency, and pretty consistent latency. Pentium3,
when
starting Windows Explorer, waits 15 - 20 seconds before displaying the
contents
of Network Neighborhood. This only occurs when the firewall on
Roberto,
the
server, is on.

When Windows Explorer is open on Roberto, and displays the identical
shares,
this latency does NOT occur. Windows Explorer on Roberto, regardless
of
firewalls on either computer, does NOT exhibit any latency.

Latency might be caused by one of two things - resource
unavailability,
and
network timeout. So for one, we want to watch activity on both
Pentium3
and
Roberto while the latency is observed. For the other, I was looking
for
a
network issue, such as maybe name resolution.

Now name resolution could be an issue, if you were attempting server
based
resolution on a network with no WINS server. The Unknown node type,
on
a
WINS
network, will be treated like Hybrid, or H-node, which will attempt to
use
a
WINS server; if no server is available, will try Broadcast resolution.
<http://support.microsoft.com/?id=160177>

But you have removed all references to WINS (ie, you cleaned up the
WINS
proxy
issue), and the latency continues.

So we're left wondering what service is being blocked by the firewall.
You
state that you have File and Printer Sharing enabled, for the subnet,
in
Windows
Firewall.

The above is a brief summary of my thoughts. Is this in agreement
with
your
observations? I will be rethinking all of these issues for a while,
looking for
additional question, and for corrections.

What is the history of Pentium3 and Roberto? How long have they been
in
use?
How long have they been in use with this network configuration? And
special
software on either, now or in the past?

Hopefully some of the above questions will prompt questions from you.


Chuck
again thanks for you time ,you are spot on with your
understanding
of
the problem,
Roberto as been up for around six months and is fully patched,
it's
my main PC and runs

MYOB, OfficeXP, ECI Client [ability to logon to the Australian Tax
Office Server and do Tax related transactions on line], Wall
Watcher,
Adobe Reader,
Sun Java [required for ECI Client ], Firefly, Dot NET [all updates],
PC
Eye web Cam software, Google World. NASA World Wind, Nero Express
DVD/CD-RW,Messenger, Spy Bot S&D, Ad-Aware F-PROT for Windows, that's
about
it.
FWIW I have created Peer to PEER LANs with XP home [never Pro though]
based PCs in the past since Roberto was built, with out this
problem
occurring, I noticed the problem as soon as Pentium3 was setup to
join Roberto.
Pentium3 is a fresh built system, no other software installed.

Robert

Chuck
Here is some additional info on the problem, given that in the
past
XPHE to XPHE never produced this slowness, I decided to install
Win98SE
on Pentium3 out of curiosity. The problem did not appear, so it
seems
as if it is something to do with the XP Pro installation ?.
Does this give you some thing more to work on as to what might
be
causing the problem.

Robert

Chuck
my answers are in line

So now you have a Windows XP Home server (Roberto), and a Windows 98
client
(Pentium3)? And the problem has been resolved?
Correct

If that's true, then the problem would appear to be related to the
install
of
Windows XP Pro on Pentium3. Unfortunately, you have destroyed any
traces
of the
problem.

No, I am using bootitng images, I have the different OS's on a
seperate partition.

I guess the next question is whether re installing XP Pro on Pentium3
will
restore the problem? If you're up for that, being as you paid for
Windows
XP
Pro, right?

Right
FWIW I even used my XP HE CD and did an install just to see if
that
would work - no joy.

Anyway I'll be setting up an XP Small Business Server 2003 here
shortly, mainly for my own knowledge [as well as use] so this issue
with XP Pro, whilst annoying will not enter the equation [hopefully] as
I
will have a domain.
That is, when I learn to configure it !!.

I have another question, for you :
With regards the XP Pro Upgrade CD, I am sure it is possible to use
this type of CD to preform a fresh install of XP Pro on a system
without an OS. During the initial set up proceess you will asked to
provide as complying product [eg Win98SE], put that CD in the drive,
once verified the installation will continue.

I rang Microsoft to verify this but was told by a support person
this is not correct, and there needs to be a base OS in place
already for the XP install to build on.

Have you had any personal experience going the upgrade that with
XP,
if so is it possible to preform a clean install with the upgrade
CD.

Robert

Robert,

Chuck answered in line

I did a clean upgrade install once, and it went as you are hoping. There
may be
different upgrades, though. Did the MS support person request any details
like
license number, that might have told him some detail about the upgrade?

No he didn't ask for any details, which left me wondering... , just
that one reads quite a lot about [for example] Dell's poor technical
service now that their support personnel are based "off shore" in
India, are MS going in the same direction to shave a few $$s off
their support service ?, the gentleman I spoke to was Indian....

I've seen this debate rage endlessly in one forum, and the consensus was finally
that the OP (ie you) would have to "try it and see". I suspect that's the
only
valid answer. This is Microsoft, and they are sneakier than a used card
salesman with their EULAs, licenses, and upgrades.

Yes, it would be nice to get a difinitive answer from MS,

So what you're saying is that you did re install XP Pro on Pentium3, and
the

problem returned? Is the problem currently with you? Are you installing
your
server over the problem, or on another computer? Remember that XP HE
won't join
a domain, so you could be opening another can of worms.

Yes that is correct, problem still exists on Pentium3.
I will be using a new [larger] HDD for the server installation which
will be on the Pentium4 PC, and yes, I understand XP Home will be not
be compatible with a domain.

It's an XPHE OEM version that's licenced for the original generic PC, so
I will probably sell that PC. That's why cost wise I am crossing my
fingers that the Upgrade will work.
I plan to have two workstations connecting to the server with
several different "users" so I can experiment and learn.

Robert

 

[Li'l Roberto]

Chuck answered in line

Chuck
Here is my experience with the XP Pro upgrade CD.
Well it did the job as I had hoped, after hitting F8 to agree with
the licensing Setup said it couldn't find a qualifying product on
the HDD ? [Win98SE was installed and working albeit flakey].
After putting the original Win98SE OEM CD in the drive and having it
check by Setup, it allowed me to delete the primary partition and do
a clean install.

Robert

 

[Chuck]

Chuck answered in line

Chuck
Here is my experience with the XP Pro upgrade CD.
Well it did the job as I had hoped, after hitting F8 to agree with
the licensing Setup said it couldn't find a qualifying product on
the HDD ? [Win98SE was installed and working albeit flakey].
After putting the original Win98SE OEM CD in the drive and having it
check by Setup, it allowed me to delete the primary partition and do
a clean install.

Robert

Robert,

Great. So now you have a cleanly installed XP Pro system. And is your problem
resolved?

 

[Li'l Roberto]

is it possible to preform a clean install with the XP upgrade
CD.

Robert

Robert,

Chuck answered in line

I did a clean upgrade install once, and it went as you are hoping.
There
may be
different upgrades, though. Did the MS support person request any
details like
license number, that might have told him some detail about the upgrade?
I've seen this debate rage endlessly in one forum, and the consensus
was
finally
that the OP (ie you) would have to "try it and see". I suspect that's
the only
valid answer. This is Microsoft, and they are sneakier than a used
card
salesman with their EULAs, licenses, and upgrades.

Chuck
Here is my experience with the XP Pro upgrade CD.
Well it did the job as I had hoped, after hitting F8 to agree with
the licensing Setup said it couldn't find a qualifying product
on
the HDD ? [Win98SE was installed and working albeit flakey].
After putting the original Win98SE OEM CD in the drive and having it
check by Setup, it allowed me to delete the primary partition and do
a clean install.

Robert

Robert,

Great. So now you have a cleanly installed XP Pro system. And is your
problem
resolved?

Chuck
alas no, but the Small Business Server CDs have arrived so that is my
next major project, I will leave the slowness problem in the "too hard
basket" for now.
Robert

 

[Chuck]

<snipped>

is it possible to preform a clean install with the XP upgrade
CD.

Robert

Robert,

Chuck answered in line

I did a clean upgrade install once, and it went as you are hoping.
There
may be
different upgrades, though. Did the MS support person request any
details like
license number, that might have told him some detail about the upgrade?
I've seen this debate rage endlessly in one forum, and the consensus
was
finally
that the OP (ie you) would have to "try it and see". I suspect that's
the only
valid answer. This is Microsoft, and they are sneakier than a used
card
salesman with their EULAs, licenses, and upgrades.

Chuck
Here is my experience with the XP Pro upgrade CD.
Well it did the job as I had hoped, after hitting F8 to agree with
the licensing Setup said it couldn't find a qualifying product
on
the HDD ? [Win98SE was installed and working albeit flakey].
After putting the original Win98SE OEM CD in the drive and having it
check by Setup, it allowed me to delete the primary partition and do
a clean install.

Robert

Robert,

Great. So now you have a cleanly installed XP Pro system. And is your
problem
resolved?

Chuck
alas no, but the Small Business Server CDs have arrived so that is my
next major project, I will leave the slowness problem in the "too hard
basket" for now.
Robert

Robert,

So the problem is consistent. That's better than not. If it had gone away,
you'd be wondering why it came up in the first place, and my rule of thumb is
that any problem that comes on its own, and goes away, will eventually come back
on its own. So your problem is still with you, which means you can work on it
at your leisure, without having to wait for it to come back.

And the fact that it's back might mean that not just one computer is part of the
problem.

Enjoy the SBS setup. I just setup a regular domain, with standard Server 2003.
Very different to have a domain, after 2 years of a workgroup. Now I start
learning about AD, and eventually WSUS.

 

[Li'l Roberto]

On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:36:09 +0930, "Li'l Roberto"
<[email protected]>
wrote:



<snipped>

is it possible to preform a clean install with the XP upgrade
CD.

Robert

Robert,

Chuck answered in line

I did a clean upgrade install once, and it went as you are hoping.
There
may be
different upgrades, though. Did the MS support person request any
details like
license number, that might have told him some detail about the
upgrade?
I've seen this debate rage endlessly in one forum, and the consensus
was
finally
that the OP (ie you) would have to "try it and see". I suspect
that's
the only
valid answer. This is Microsoft, and they are sneakier than a used
card
salesman with their EULAs, licenses, and upgrades.

Chuck
Here is my experience with the XP Pro upgrade CD.
Well it did the job as I had hoped, after hitting F8 to agree
with
the licensing Setup said it couldn't find a qualifying product
on
the HDD ? [Win98SE was installed and working albeit flakey].
After putting the original Win98SE OEM CD in the drive and having
it
check by Setup, it allowed me to delete the primary partition and
do
a clean install.

Robert

Robert,

Great. So now you have a cleanly installed XP Pro system. And is your
problem
resolved?

Chuck
alas no, but the Small Business Server CDs have arrived so that is my
next major project, I will leave the slowness problem in the "too
hard
basket" for now.
Robert

Robert,

So the problem is consistent. That's better than not. If it had gone
away,
you'd be wondering why it came up in the first place, and my rule of thumb
is
that any problem that comes on its own, and goes away, will eventually
come back
on its own. So your problem is still with you, which means you can work
on it
at your leisure, without having to wait for it to come back.

And the fact that it's back might mean that not just one computer is part
of the
problem.

Enjoy the SBS setup. I just setup a regular domain, with standard Server
2003.
Very different to have a domain, after 2 years of a workgroup. Now I
start
learning about AD, and eventually WSUS.

I reckon you are right about the problem, leaseways we know it is
consistent and reproducible.
Seeing how I am going to a domain, the problem with the Peer to Peer
network should not surface ?.

Anyway thanks for your time, as a spin off I did broaden my knowledge -
PE is a great app.

I will keep you posted on the SBS implementation [maybe ask a question or
two]

Robert

 

[Chuck]

On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:36:09 +0930, "Li'l Roberto"
<[email protected]>
wrote:



<snipped>

is it possible to preform a clean install with the XP upgrade
CD.

Robert

Robert,

Chuck answered in line

I did a clean upgrade install once, and it went as you are hoping.
There
may be
different upgrades, though. Did the MS support person request any
details like
license number, that might have told him some detail about the
upgrade?
I've seen this debate rage endlessly in one forum, and the consensus
was
finally
that the OP (ie you) would have to "try it and see". I suspect
that's
the only
valid answer. This is Microsoft, and they are sneakier than a used
card
salesman with their EULAs, licenses, and upgrades.

Chuck
Here is my experience with the XP Pro upgrade CD.
Well it did the job as I had hoped, after hitting F8 to agree
with
the licensing Setup said it couldn't find a qualifying product
on
the HDD ? [Win98SE was installed and working albeit flakey].
After putting the original Win98SE OEM CD in the drive and having
it
check by Setup, it allowed me to delete the primary partition and
do
a clean install.

Robert

Robert,

Great. So now you have a cleanly installed XP Pro system. And is your
problem
resolved?

Chuck
alas no, but the Small Business Server CDs have arrived so that is my
next major project, I will leave the slowness problem in the "too
hard
basket" for now.
Robert

Robert,

So the problem is consistent. That's better than not. If it had gone
away,
you'd be wondering why it came up in the first place, and my rule of thumb
is
that any problem that comes on its own, and goes away, will eventually
come back
on its own. So your problem is still with you, which means you can work
on it
at your leisure, without having to wait for it to come back.

And the fact that it's back might mean that not just one computer is part
of the
problem.

Enjoy the SBS setup. I just setup a regular domain, with standard Server
2003.
Very different to have a domain, after 2 years of a workgroup. Now I
start
learning about AD, and eventually WSUS.

I reckon you are right about the problem, leaseways we know it is
consistent and reproducible.
Seeing how I am going to a domain, the problem with the Peer to Peer
network should not surface ?.

Anyway thanks for your time, as a spin off I did broaden my knowledge -
PE is a great app.

I will keep you posted on the SBS implementation [maybe ask a question or
two]

Robert

Robert,

Have fun. I'll look forward to your SBS experiences. It might be time for a
new thread though - this one is getting kind of long.