Video card and CPU combination for an excellent gaming experience...

[Pccomputerdr]

What CPU do you recommend to go with ATI X800? Should I wait until Intel
releases 64-bit CPU or just go with AMD Athlon 64?

The clock speed of the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs seems to be a lot less than any Intel
Pentium 4 CPUs out there. Does the slower clock speed rate of the AMD Athlon 64
CPU mean slower CPU performance compared to the performance of the Intel
Pentium 4 CPUs?

The new AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 seems to be the latest AMD release at the price of
$750. Do you think the combination of ATI X800 and AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 is a
smart choice for an ultimate gaming experience?

 

[Ben Pope]

What CPU do you recommend to go with ATI X800? Should I wait until Intel
releases 64-bit CPU or just go with AMD Athlon 64?

Wait 2 years.

No, just wait for a socket 939 Athlon64.

The clock speed of the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs seems to be a lot less than any
Intel Pentium 4 CPUs out there. Does the slower clock speed rate of the
AMD Athlon 64 CPU mean slower CPU performance compared to the performance
of the Intel Pentium 4 CPUs?

No. Check out some reviews.

The P4 has a very long pipeline that is not particularly efficient - they do
an ok job, but when a branch prediction goes wrong, you lose a lot of time
as you have to empty the pipeline and then repopulate it. If th pipeline is
18 instructions long, you lose 18 instruction for every miss.

The Athlon pipeline is much shorter, and more efficient. So mis-predicting
a branch takes less of a performance hit. Overall you get more instructions
per clock than on an Intel. About 60% more, looking at the numbers. But
that is highly task dependant.

The fact that an Athlon64 CPU clocked at 2.0GHz (3200+) vs an Intel clocked
at 3.2GHz (P4C) can perform similarly:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2038&p=5

Is a sure sign that clock speed means very little.

The new AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 seems to be the latest AMD release at the
price of $750. Do you think the combination of ATI X800 and AMD Athlon 64
FX-53 is a smart choice for an ultimate gaming experience?

Possibly, right now. But only if price is of absolutely no concern. An
Athlon64 3400+ will get you 95-100% of the gaming performance of an FX-53
for about half the price. Thats on a 9800 Pro. I would expect the
difference to be a bit larger for the X800.

Of course... things will all change with socket 939.

Ben

 

[Ben Pope]

Possibly, right now. But only if price is of absolutely no concern. An
Athlon64 3400+ will get you 95-100% of the gaming performance of an FX-53
for about half the price. Thats on a 9800 Pro. I would expect the
difference to be a bit larger for the X800.

Oh, the FX-51 is basically the same processor as the Opteron 148. But more
expensive.

I don't know if/when an Opteron clocked the same as an FX-53 will be out.
However, there is going to be an adjustment to cache sizes in order to
differentiate products, this is likely to happen with the introduction of
Socket 939.

Ben

 

[J. Clarke]

What CPU do you recommend to go with ATI X800? Should I wait until Intel
releases 64-bit CPU or just go with AMD Athlon 64?

Intel released their 64-bit CPU several years ago. It's called Itanium, it
costs several thousand dollars, and it doesn't run 32-bit code worth a
darn. They're supposed to have a new chip coming that's basically a clone
of the AMD-64s, so doesn't seem to be much benefit in waiting other than
the inevitable price reduction as competition develops.

The clock speed of the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs seems to be a lot less than any
Intel Pentium 4 CPUs out there. Does the slower clock speed rate of the
AMD Athlon 64 CPU mean slower CPU performance compared to the performance
of the Intel Pentium 4 CPUs?

No. The AMD-64 chips do more in a sincle clock cycle than the P4s.

The new AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 seems to be the latest AMD release at the
price of $750. Do you think the combination of ATI X800 and AMD Athlon 64
FX-53 is a smart choice for an ultimate gaming experience?

No. Too much money for too little reward IMO. But if you gotta have the
latest and greatest then that would fill the bill.

 

[Destroy]

What CPU do you recommend to go with ATI X800? Should I wait until Intel
releases 64-bit CPU or just go with AMD Athlon 64?

Go look at the benchmarks on various sites, Athlon64 has a slight edge
in gaming scores usually. Intel wins in the productivity aps usually also.

Does the slower clock speed rate of the AMD Athlon 64
CPU mean slower CPU performance compared to the performance of the Intel
Pentium 4 CPUs?
No.


The new AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 seems to be the latest AMD release at the price of
$750. Do you think the combination of ATI X800 and AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 is a
smart choice for an ultimate gaming experience?

For now, yes, that's the best you can get for gaming. Waiting will
always bring something better; just depends on your time frame on when
you want or need to buy in.

 

[Asestar]

The clock speed of the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs seems to be a lot less than any
Intel

Pentium 4 CPUs out there. Does the slower clock speed rate of the AMD Athlon 64
CPU mean slower CPU performance compared to the performance of the Intel
Pentium 4 CPUs?

Take an example: Celeron 2,4GHz cpu VS Duron 1,8GHz. Both are budget
versions. People think that 2.4GHz cpu is faster than 1.8, they're dead
wrong! Amd's cpu's are much more effective per clock rate. Meaning their
Duron1,8GHZ cpu is actually working much faster than Celeron 2,4.

On a sidenote, Duron1800 can be considered "2 x Pentium3 900MHz" however,
this is not the case with celeron 2,4. It is more like "2 x Pentium3 700MHz"
in most apps.

 

[Pccomputerdr]

No, just wait for a socket 939 Athlon64.

If you don't mind me asking, what is so promising about the socket 939
Athlon64?

Thanks

 

[Ben Pope]

If you don't mind me asking, what is so promising about the socket 939
Athlon64?

For a start, Dual Channel without Registered DIMMs. With the 754s, you have
single channel. With the 940s, you have Dual Channel, but require
registered DIMMs.

I think the roadmap will be using 939 for the foreseeable future, whereas
754 will be phased out.

This means Dual Channel performance without the ridiculous expense of
registered DIMMs, and hopefully a decent upgrade path (we can dream!)

Ben

 

[Destroy]

If you don't mind me asking, what is so promising about the socket 939

For a start, Dual Channel without Registered DIMMs. With the 754s, you have
single channel. With the 940s, you have Dual Channel, but require
registered DIMMs.

I think the roadmap will be using 939 for the foreseeable future, whereas
754 will be phased out.

This means Dual Channel performance without the ridiculous expense of
registered DIMMs, and hopefully a decent upgrade path (we can dream!)

Socket 939 was suppose to be out in May '04 but things have been very
quiet, as in delayed quiet perhaps? I'm guessing 939 socket is a month
or 3 away yet. According to Anandtech, even the 3700+ 754 should have
been out last month yet we got nothing.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1985

 

[Pccomputerdr]

On some of the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs, the cache size is indicated as 1MB. Is that
a simple typo? I can't imagine a CPU having that much cache for normal home
users. As I remember, in the past, Intel released a CPU with 1MB cache, but it
was more expensive than a few thousand dollars…

 

[Andrew]

On some of the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs, the cache size is indicated as 1MB. Is that
a simple typo?

No, its corrent.

I can't imagine a CPU having that much cache for normal home
users.

The Athlon 64's aren't for normal home users yet.

As I remember, in the past, Intel released a CPU with 1MB cache, but it
was more expensive than a few thousand dollars…

Thats the typical Intel price structure for you.

 

[Ken Maltby]

For a start, Dual Channel without Registered DIMMs. With the 754s, you have
single channel. With the 940s, you have Dual Channel, but require
registered DIMMs.

I think the roadmap will be using 939 for the foreseeable future, whereas
754 will be phased out.

This means Dual Channel performance without the ridiculous expense of
registered DIMMs, and hopefully a decent upgrade path (we can dream!)

Ben

So lets see, I'm waiting for an A8? (PCI-X) socket 939 and a
X8?? PCI-X pro, with the Omega Drivers of course, and DDR3
Ram; 15,000rpm SATA Raptor drives, anything else?

Luck;
Ken

 

[johns]

What CPU do you recommend to go with ATI X800? Should I wait until Intel
releases 64-bit CPU or just go with AMD Athlon 64?

None of them until there is both OS and app code for
that hardware. And, not until then does it get debugged.
The best gaming system is still probably whatever hardware
runs 8-bit code best. I'm building and testing new systems
every week using 3DMark and Far Cry to "estimate"
performance quality. So far I've seen no real improvement
at all over my office AMD 2000+ on a Gigabyte 7ZXE
mobo with an ATI Radeon 9000 128. Any of the so-called
faster systems automatically add in the game extras, and
bog down to low frame rates. I've tested up through ATI
9600XT and Nvidia 5700 ( I think ) with both of those
on ASUS mobo. No real improvement at all over the 9000
except in Far Cry, I have better surf ... but lower frame
rates that make the game a little tough to play. You have
got to have the frame rate for a good enjoyable game.
That means the "big stuff" still has to be backed down
to low mode to play well, and not generate artifacts.
Also, in Far Cry, I reinstalled it on my system along
with the new 1.1 patch. It does look better, and the
frame rate went up just a bit. I'll have to get to the
last few episodes to tell if the load problems have been
solved .. about 3 weeks or so And ... !!! ... so far
the fastest load time, and the fastest copy time to a zip
disk is still held ( all these years ) by an Intel 166mmx
running Win95B. 'Splain that ? .. and it is a good
4x faster than any of the P4s I have.

johns

 

[J. Clarke]

On some of the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs, the cache size is indicated as 1MB. Is
that a simple typo? I can't imagine a CPU having that much cache for
normal home users. As I remember, in the past, Intel released a CPU with
1MB cache, but it was more expensive than a few thousand dollars?

One bit of static RAM takes 2 transistors. A meg with parity takes 18
million. The Athlon-64 has 105 million. That makes the cache less than 20
percent of the cost. Since RAM consists of a large number of identical
cells they may have been able to work economies of scale in the layout to
make it even less than that.

 

[cK-Gunslinger]

None of them until there is both OS and app code for
that hardware. And, not until then does it get debugged.
The best gaming system is still probably whatever hardware
runs 8-bit code best.

What?! 8-bit code? Do you have any clue as to what you are talking
about? Are you recommending a Nintendo (NES) system from 1986 as the
best gaming system?

I'm building and testing new systems
every week using 3DMark and Far Cry to "estimate"
performance quality. So far I've seen no real improvement
at all over my office AMD 2000+ on a Gigabyte 7ZXE
mobo with an ATI Radeon 9000 128. Any of the so-called
faster systems automatically add in the game extras, and
bog down to low frame rates.

What?! Every single game has changeable options that let you adjust
resolution/features. Faster hardware will either let you run the game
at the *same* settings with a faster framerate *or* with increased
resolution and/or visual features at a faster or similiar frame rate.
Faster hardware will not lower your performance over the older hardware
you have. (Hint: That's why we call it *faster* hardware.)

I've tested up through ATI
9600XT and Nvidia 5700 ( I think ) with both of those
on ASUS mobo. No real improvement at all over the 9000
except in Far Cry, I have better surf ... but lower frame
rates that make the game a little tough to play. You have
got to have the frame rate for a good enjoyable game.

What?! You upgraded from a $60 Radeon 9000 (DX8) to some $150 DX9 cards
and noticed "no real improvements." I sincerely hope you are not a
professional builder, as I would feel sorry for your clients.

That means the "big stuff" still has to be backed down
to low mode to play well, and not generate artifacts.
Also, in Far Cry, I reinstalled it on my system along
with the new 1.1 patch. It does look better, and the
frame rate went up just a bit. I'll have to get to the
last few episodes to tell if the load problems have been
solved .. about 3 weeks or so And ... !!! ... so far
the fastest load time, and the fastest copy time to a zip
disk is still held ( all these years ) by an Intel 166mmx
running Win95B. 'Splain that ? .. and it is a good
4x faster than any of the P4s I have.

johns

So basically, you feel that the entire computer hardware industry is a
giant hoax? Any computer built 5-6 years ago will perform just as well,
if not better, than any newer one. Millions of people have spent
billions of dollars to upgrade from old Pentium 166MHz PCs with Voodoo2
video cards to today's 3GHz P4s/Athlons with a Radeon/GeForce, and all
that was a complete waste?

Nice. Glad to know there are crackpots out there such as yourself to
confuse people with legitimate questions. In fact, I think I may have
just been trolled. People on the internet can't possible be that
ignorant, can they?

 

[Asestar]

I'm building and testing new systems
I feel so much ashamed for what he just said!! Compairing a 9000 non-pro
card to anything newer! ! Heck if he'd said 8500 128mb, now that is still
faster than 9200/ 5200 but 9000!! Sad sad sad ..

Either he has *SERIOUS* driver problems, (like not re-installing drivers
with gfx card upgrade) or he is on windows95

 

[Ed Light]

performance quality. So far I've seen no real improvement

at all over my office AMD 2000+ on a Gigabyte 7ZXE
mobo with an ATI Radeon 9000 128. Any of the so-called

Then you haven't tried to run Trainz 2004 after downloading a big layout
with lots of different custom trees.

There's a benchmark!


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

 

[Darthy]

What CPU do you recommend to go with ATI X800? Should I wait until Intel
releases 64-bit CPU or just go with AMD Athlon 64?

Intel doesn't have a consumer 64bit CPU. With the X800, you could be
CPU limited with some games - as already shown in some performance
tests.

The clock speed of the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs seems to be a lot less than any Intel
Pentium 4 CPUs out there. Does the slower clock speed rate of the AMD Athlon 64
CPU mean slower CPU performance compared to the performance of the Intel
Pentium 4 CPUs?

Mhz doesn't mean everything, they are not a unit of PERFORMANCE, ony a
measure of CLOCK RATE. Just like two different totally different cars
will go 60mph at different engine RPMs. ATI cards are typically lower
Mhz than Nvidia... but who wins? The 5900 cards are "

An AMD-64 3200 CPU (About $275~300) is 1000Mhz lower than the P4 3.2
and P4 EE CPUs (Xeon, repackaged - sells for $1000) - yet in most
games and work (other than Video EN-CODING - ie: making videos) the
AMD CPU is faster...

The new AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 seems to be the latest AMD release at the price of
$750. Do you think the combination of ATI X800 and AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 is a
smart choice for an ultimate gaming experience?

Its the fastest if ya got the money... but you need the sockey 939
boards as they use cheaper and faster memory. The AMD64-FX series are
varients of their Opteron BUSINESS CPUs where reliability is more
important.

 

[Darthy]

Take an example: Celeron 2,4GHz cpu VS Duron 1,8GHz. Both are budget
versions. People think that 2.4GHz cpu is faster than 1.8, they're dead

Even the AMD XP2500 costs less than a Celeron 2.6Ghz CPU.... but the
AMD 2500 runs very fast, while a 2.6Ghz Celeron is not much better
than a P3-1000.

wrong! Amd's cpu's are much more effective per clock rate. Meaning their
Duron1,8GHZ cpu is actually working much faster than Celeron 2,4.

A Duron 1.8 would still be as fast a the original P4 1.8...

On a sidenote, Duron1800 can be considered "2 x Pentium3 900MHz" however,
this is not the case with celeron 2,4. It is more like "2 x Pentium3 700MHz"
in most apps.

I don't agree. You can't compare the speed of 1 CPU to that of 2
CPUs. In a typical dual CPU system, it doesn't really double the
performance. An AMD 2500 would still be faster than x2 AMD 1600.

A Celeron 2.4 is on par with a single P3-1000Mhz.



- - - - -
Remember: In the USA - it is dangeroud to draw or write about Heir Bush in a negative way. The police or SS are called, people threaten to kill you. (What country is this again?)

- 15yr old boy in Washington was disciplined for drawing such images.
- White House blows cover of an undercover agent because her husband said there were no WMD (before the USA started the war) - her job was finding terrorist. (This makes sense?)
God bless the land of the free. Where you can burn the Constitution... Ashcroft does it every day.

 

[Darthy]

On some of the AMD Athlon 64 CPUs, the cache size is indicated as 1MB. Is that
a simple typo? I can't imagine a CPU having that much cache for normal home
users. As I remember, in the past, Intel released a CPU with 1MB cache, but it
was more expensive than a few thousand dollars…

The AMD FX and Opterons have 1mb of cache. They are not cheap.

These CPUs start around $600 and up.