Value of integrated graphics on mobo?

[Lem]

Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
quality motherboard like:

Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
etc

 

[Corvin]

3D performance

BR,
C

 

[Maciek K.]

Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
quality motherboard like:

Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
etc

If you need something to just show windows, it's ok, but for games, it's
a far too little. Especially when the integrated graphics is based on a
system memory, which is slower then video ram.

cheers

 

[wayne]

most onboard graphics is pretty low end a card would cost in the 10-20$
range if you could find one that slow!

Wayne

 

[Roland Scheidegger]

Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
quality motherboard like:

Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
etc

What do you mean with "quality"? 2D output quality? In that case, it's
hard to tell, since this depends almost entirely on the output filter on
the graphic card (or motherboard for integrated graphics). Most
motherboards though seem to have really crappy output filters (with the
exception of some intel boards IIRC). But the same is sometimes true for
cheap graphic cards unfortunately.
If you're talking about 3d performance / 3d quality, the nVidia
(nforce2) has a GF4MX integrated. Its performance is about in the middle
between a 64bit GF4MX (GF4MX420, often GF4MX440SE) and a 128bit GF4MX
(GF4MX440) - this is only true if you use the board in dual-channel ram
mode, otherwise the performance will be below a GF4MX420. This is a DX7
class chip (no pixel/vertex shaders, T&L).
The Via boards with integrated graphic today use AFAIK all a "Unichrome"
graphic core - basically a Savage4 derivative, about as fast as a TNT2.
So to beat the integrated Via solutions, a radeon 7000 will do (which,
btw, is also available integrated on some boards, with the name radeon
igp 340 and similar).
To easily beat the nforce2, you'd need a bit more, GF4MX440, GFFX 5200
(but only the 128bit versions will be faster!), Radeon 9200 (not the SE
with its 64bit memory interface!).

Roland

 

[Gregory Toomey]

EPoX 8RGMI - dual head - I've just ordered one

If you need something to just show windows, it's ok, but for games, it's
a far too little. Especially when the integrated graphics is based on a
system memory, which is slower then video ram.

cheers

Err, I doubt you have used them.

The latest ones support fast ram. For nForce, the graphics controller is
integrated into the northbridge to reduce memory latency. There is no "ram
bottleneck".

The other advantage is the nvidia linux drivers will get the graphics/sound
lan all working with a single easy driver install.

The bottom line is tht you get "useable" graphics for little more than the
cost of a regular motherboard. And you can alwys install an AGP card if you
want "state of the art".


gtoomey

 

[v56k]

So almost any card costing upwards of $30 (or £20) would be better
than what is on a mobo? Is that generally a correct understanding?

They are fine for 2d and are awful at 3d gaming.

So if you are going to play games quite a bit get a separate card.

If you arent playing games get an on-board solution.
If you arent playing games now but may in the future get an onboard
solution and then get the latest/greatest choice of current cards when
you want them.

 

[Gregory Toomey]

I am not too sure where filters fit into graphics but, essentially,
I am thinking of getting answers to questions like this:

Would the graphics integrated into on a half-decent modern mobo be
as good as my old graphics card ... nVidia GeForce2 MX/MX 400 32MB?

BTW is that card the same as what you call "nforce2"?

I have a Leadtek Geforce2 GTS about 3yo, and an Asus A7N8X-VM has better
graphics.

gtoomey

 

[Lem]

most onboard graphics is pretty low end a card would cost in
the 10-20$ range if you could find one that slow!

So almost any card costing upwards of $30 (or £20) would be better
than what is on a mobo? Is that generally a correct understanding?

 

[Lem]

What do you mean with "quality"? 2D output quality?

Thanks for posting. I think I didn't make my use of the word
"quality" clear. I mean to refer to the integrated graphics on a
decent (quality) motherboard as opposed to the integrated graphics
on a very cheap budget motherboard.

In that
case, it's hard to tell, since this depends almost entirely on
the output filter on the graphic card (or motherboard for
integrated graphics). Most motherboards though seem to have
really crappy output filters (with the exception of some intel
boards IIRC). But the same is sometimes true for cheap graphic
cards unfortunately.

I am not too sure where filters fit into graphics but, essentially,
I am thinking of getting answers to questions like this:

Would the graphics integrated into on a half-decent modern mobo be
as good as my old graphics card ... nVidia GeForce2 MX/MX 400 32MB?

BTW is that card the same as what you call "nforce2"?

 

[Piotr Makley]

The bottom line is tht you get "useable" graphics for little
more than the cost of a regular motherboard. And you can alwys
install an AGP card if you want "state of the art".

ISTR that there are sometimes difficult problems when it comes to
disabling onbaord graphics. Is this just a misunderstanding?

 

[Roland Scheidegger]

Thanks for posting. I think I didn't make my use of the word
"quality" clear. I mean to refer to the integrated graphics on a
decent (quality) motherboard as opposed to the integrated graphics on
a very cheap budget motherboard.

Yes, but do you refer to 2d quality or 3d performance? Those are
completely different topics, you can have a card with top-notch 2d
quality, but awful 3d performance (for instance, a matrox g200 would fit
that category today). If you only use your graphic card for, say, word
processing, but use high resolutions (1280x1024 or above) then that can
be a problem with integrated graphics (or some graphic cards), the
picture will be fuzzy. This is completely independant to how fast the
graphic chip is, so for word processing that above mentioned matrox
would be great, but for gaming it would be awful.

I am not too sure where filters fit into graphics but, essentially, I
am thinking of getting answers to questions like this:

Would the graphics integrated into on a half-decent modern mobo be as
good as my old graphics card ... nVidia GeForce2 MX/MX 400 32MB?

an integrated nforce2 graphic (such as that in the a7n8x-vm) is faster
than your GF2 MX 400 (but the GF2 MX400 would likely be faster than the
integrated Via chipsets). I have no idea if the 2d (signal) quality is
better or not, GF2 MX cards weren't exactly known for good signal
quality, so it might be about the same.

BTW is that card the same as what you call "nforce2"?

No, nforce2 has an integrated GeForce4 MX - basically same features as a
GeForce2 MX, but faster.

Roland

 

[Maximus]

So almost any card costing upwards of $30 (or £20) would be better
than what is on a mobo? Is that generally a correct understanding?

YES, your understanding is correct.

 

[Ed Light]

The nvidia intergrated video is the fastest. It may be as fast as the
slowest nvidia cards.

--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

 

[mrdancer]

Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
quality motherboard like:

Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
etc

Graphics cards tend to be rather expensive - I can't find any for less than
$40USD locally. On the web, you can find some cheaper ones, e.g.:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=0
but you have to be careful that the card will work with your mobo. For
example, the Sapphire listed on the above page is rated at 1.5V (as per
users' reviews) and thus will not work in all mobos. At a price point below
$30 or so, you're probably dealing with similar quality as most integrated
video.

Therefore, integrated video is a bargain if you're not a gamer, etc. Either
way, you can upgrade with a nice AGP card, then when your mobo needs
upgrading, you take the AGP card with you to the new mobo and sell/use the
old mobo w/ integrated video as part of a cheap bargain system.

 

[Ken Oaf]

Approximately what would it cost to buy a seperate graphics card
offering the same sort of quality as the integrated graphics on a
quality motherboard like:

Asus A7N8X-VM (nVidia)
Asus A7V8X-VM (Via)
Gigabyte 7VN400M (Via)
MSI-K7M2G-L (nVidia)
etc

the onboard gfx cards are cheap, maybe $50 to get equivalent performance. You
are better off with a separate card.

 

[Lem]

Graphics cards tend to be rather expensive - I can't find any
for less than $40USD locally. On the web, you can find some
cheaper ones, e.g.:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=
0 but you have to be careful that the card will work with your
mobo. For example, the Sapphire listed on the above page is
rated at 1.5V (as per users' reviews) and thus will not work
in all mobos.

Yikes. I was thinking of getting a Sapphire. I tired your link
but just got a search page. Which Sapphire graphics card did you
mean as they sell 5 different ones.

Surely it's all plug and play these days and pretty much any modern
graphics card will work pretty much any modern mobo. Or not?

 

[wayne]

I found this 32MB PCI card looks pretty good for $22.00 AGP is pretty much
the same price

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/topmicrousa/sis32mbpci.html

Vendor has it for higher but a search showed it ant neutron express for 22
they just didn't have a good description!

Wayne

 

[Maciek K.]

Err, I doubt you have used them.

The latest ones support fast ram. For nForce, the graphics controller is
integrated into the northbridge to reduce memory latency. There is no "ram
bottleneck".

Yeah ;] I used the sentence : 'especially when' :]
I am using integrated one in computer at my work, at home I'm not.

The other advantage is the nvidia linux drivers will get the graphics/sound
lan all working with a single easy driver install.

The bottom line is tht you get "useable" graphics for little more than the
cost of a regular motherboard. And you can alwys install an AGP card if you
want "state of the art".

True

cheers!

 

[Inglo]

Yikes. I was thinking of getting a Sapphire. I tired your link
but just got a search page. Which Sapphire graphics card did you
mean as they sell 5 different ones.

Surely it's all plug and play these days and pretty much any modern
graphics card will work pretty much any modern mobo. Or not?

If you try putting that Sapphire into a 5 year old motherboard you might
have some problems. If you use modern components with modern components
no worries.
If you aren't going to be doing any intensive, cutting edge gaming
onboard graphics are fine. Get an nForce2 board with the IGP. They
cost about $10 more than the ones without.