UPS built in

[Terry]

I have a UPS that weighs about 10 lbs. I was thinking that most
computer shutdowns are often just power flash outages. I am guessing
that a battery large enough to keep a computer only up for say 5 min
would not weigh that much or would cost any more than the production
lost in such an outage.

Anyone agree? I am guessing that since computers don't come with these
batteries that there is a good reason. I don't see it.

 

[JS]

Wrong. Depends on the PC's power draw, some of the latest PC(s) can consume
150 watts at idle and have 700 watt or larger power supplies.

As for what you lose if the PC shuts down it depends, if your in the middle
of a defrag of the drive it could be a lot.
An UPS that give you 5 minutes of runtime is enough to safely save your work
and shut down the PC during a power loss but that's about all. Also as the
battery ages that 5 minutes may drop to less than 2.

JS

 

[Michael W. Ryder]

I have a UPS that weighs about 10 lbs. I was thinking that most
computer shutdowns are often just power flash outages. I am guessing
that a battery large enough to keep a computer only up for say 5 min
would not weigh that much or would cost any more than the production
lost in such an outage.

Anyone agree? I am guessing that since computers don't come with these
batteries that there is a good reason. I don't see it.

I can see two reasons. One would be that each case would probably need
it's own special design for the battery, much like laptops, along with
different sizes for the backup time requirement. The second would be
the disposal of the batteries when the case is discarded.
With a commercial stand-alone UPS they don't have to worry about a bunch
of different designs for each requirement. A lot of them have a
trade-in or replacement policy where they take your old unit or battery
when you upgrade or need to replace the battery.
Also a stand-alone unit can continue to be used when you replace the
computer it was attached to rather than having to be discarded. The
stand-alone units can also power your monitor and external devices
during the power outage which could be important if you are doing a
backup to an external hard drive.

 

[Terry]

I can see two reasons. One would be that each case would probably need
it's own special design for the battery, much like laptops, along with
different sizes for the backup time requirement. The second would be
the disposal of the batteries when the case is discarded.
With a commercial stand-alone UPS they don't have to worry about a bunch
of different designs for each requirement. A lot of them have a
trade-in or replacement policy where they take your old unit or battery
when you upgrade or need to replace the battery.
Also a stand-alone unit can continue to be used when you replace the
computer it was attached to rather than having to be discarded. The
stand-alone units can also power your monitor and external devices
during the power outage which could be important if you are doing a
backup to an external hard drive.

It is true that an external UPS would be better for a lot of reasons,
but also more expensive, heaver and external. The purpose of an
internal UPS is only suggested for a flash outage, which is the cause
of a good many power losses.

It could be mounted in 5.25 bay like everything else.

Many save hard drives when they dump their old machines. I don't' dump
old machines - Just old parts.

Disposing of internal batteries would be no more expensive than
external ones.

 

[Terry]

Wrong. Depends on the PC's power draw, some of the latest PC(s) can consume
150 watts at idle and have 700 watt or larger power supplies.

An UPS that give you 5 minutes of runtime is enough to safely save your work
and shut down the PC during a power loss but that's about all.

I was suggesting an internal UPS for just enough power to keep a
computer up during a flash outage. This is a large cause of computer
down time.

You could spend more bucks for more protection. A UPS battery bank
would be better. It would just cost a little more.

 

[Doug]

|I have a UPS that weighs about 10 lbs. I was thinking that most
| computer shutdowns are often just power flash outages. I am guessing
| that a battery large enough to keep a computer only up for say 5 min
| would not weigh that much or would cost any more than the production
| lost in such an outage.
|
| Anyone agree? I am guessing that since computers don't come with these
| batteries that there is a good reason. I don't see it.

Both lead/acid (the type of "heavy" battery used in contemporary UPS's) and
lithium (expensive) batteries contain caustic and/or potentially explosive
compounds.

Incorporating them into the manufacturing process would put computers into a
whole new regulatory class as far as production, assembly, shipping, storage
and disposal. Manufacturers would have to cover the cost of compliance with
umpteen Government/OSHA/EPA regulations which would of course be passed on
to consumers.

As with all things business the bottom line question is, would be cost
prohibitive? The current trend is to produce PCs as cheaply as possible even
sacrificing service and support.

--
Doug

I'm not an MVP a VIP nor do I have ESP.
I was just trying to help.
Please use your own best judgment before implementing any suggestions or
advice herein.
No warranty is expressed or implied.
Your mileage may vary.
See store for details.

Remove shoes to E-mail.
http://spaces.msn.com/members/hillbillybuddhist/
|

 

[JS]

Sorry, misunderstood your post.

JS

I was suggesting an internal UPS for just enough power to keep a
computer up during a flash outage. This is a large cause of computer
down time.

You could spend more bucks for more protection. A UPS battery bank
would be better. It would just cost a little more.

 

[Ghostrider]

I have a UPS that weighs about 10 lbs. I was thinking that most
computer shutdowns are often just power flash outages. I am guessing
that a battery large enough to keep a computer only up for say 5 min
would not weigh that much or would cost any more than the production
lost in such an outage.

Anyone agree? I am guessing that since computers don't come with these
batteries that there is a good reason. I don't see it.

After re-reading the original post several times, one comes
to the realization that such an animal exists --- the laptop.
Or for some of us, the "desktop replacement", depending on
the extremes to which it has been upgraded. If there is ever
a demand for computer systems with built-in UPS, then it is
merely a simple design task of incorporating the laptop's
power circuitry plus an additional power supply line to a
flat-screen monitor.

 

[Terry]

After re-reading the original post several times, one comes
to the realization that such an animal exists --- the laptop.
Or for some of us, the "desktop replacement", depending on
the extremes to which it has been upgraded. If there is ever
a demand for computer systems with built-in UPS, then it is
merely a simple design task of incorporating the laptop's
power circuitry plus an additional power supply line to a
flat-screen monitor.

The problem with trying to add the monitor to the mix is having to add
a 120v connection to the computer. This is more complicated for a few
reasons. An internal UPS for just the computer would be 12V only. If
the internal battery is intended for just a power flash then the
monitor is expected to be back up in a min or two.

For times when the power does not come back up, adding OS logic to shut
down and backup data in x seconds would prevent data loss.

 

[Ghostrider]

The problem with trying to add the monitor to the mix is having to add
a 120v connection to the computer. This is more complicated for a few
reasons. An internal UPS for just the computer would be 12V only. If
the internal battery is intended for just a power flash then the
monitor is expected to be back up in a min or two.

For times when the power does not come back up, adding OS logic to shut
down and backup data in x seconds would prevent data loss.

Point well taken about the monitor. There are flat-screen monitors
that are powered from their own step-down power supplies and might
well operate at the lower voltage. This is a theoretical discussion
but the potential for a small, internalized UPS exists.