Uninsatll/reinstall HD to recover DMA?

[Rod Speed]

Arno Wagner <[email protected]> wrote:

Previously Terry Pinnell <[email protected]>
wrote: [...]

Hair tearing/teeth gnashing time ;-(

I replaced cable with brand new one, but no change.

45cm 80 pin ''standard'' cable?

Yep.

Then the cable is very likely not the problem.

Uninstalled/reinstalled Controller umpteen times.

Followed article mentioned earlier and deleted 'checksum' registry
entries.

This is _very_ unlikely to be a software problem. Unless the
controller BIOS does some bad hardware initialisation...

Still no joy.

There is one more component that often has problems that surface
in various surprising ways: The PSU. Can you test the disk with
a different PSU?

Thanks, appreciate your patience.

I was about to try replacing it with a MAXTOR 60 GB I have at hand
to see if I still get the 'controller errors'. But instead I first
did something I should have tried sooner: boot up to a copy of XP
Home I made months ago in another partition. In that environment, I
am still in PIO mode on that drive. Does that conclusively rule out
software?

Cannot say for sure, but at least it makes it less likely.

And imply it must be either
- the drive itself is fundamentally flawed, despite its newness?

Possible. The only think I can think of is semiconductor failure,
very unlikely today, but it still happens. Maybe static electricity
damaged a bus-driver. That could also have happened on the controller
side. The bus-drivers are hardened against this, but it is still a
possibility.

- the power supply?

Yes. I think you should try that next. It could generate enough
noise to interfere with data transfer on the cables.

- and, I suppose, the m/b?

Well, the controller, yes. Might also be an unlucky combination
of a not too serious problem with controller and disk that only
surfaces when you combine both.

Some more things to try:

- Move the disk to the other controller channel (other connector).
- Try with your other disk.

Replaced the newish 200 GB with its 4-year old 60 GB predecessor - and
UDMA 5 is back!

So, although I suppose it *could* still be some obscure software issue
connected with the very large size of the drive, the most likely
explanation appears to be a faulty drive, yes?

Yes. And the best confirmation would be to put the 200G drive in a
completely different system and see it only manage PIO in that too.

Only bought it in October, from Misco, UK. Wonder
what my chances of getting a replacement are...?

Run PowerMax on that drive, see if it notices
the problem. If it does, it should be easy to RMA.

If it doesnt, can get tricky to convince the seller or Maxtor,
but threatening to use the small claims court should put a
bomb under them if they tell you to bugger off.

 

[Arno Wagner]

Arno Wagner <[email protected]> wrote:

[...]

Hair tearing/teeth gnashing time ;-(

I replaced cable with brand new one, but no change.

45cm 80 pin ''standard'' cable?

Yep.

Then the cable is very likely not the problem.

Uninstalled/reinstalled Controller umpteen times.

Followed article mentioned earlier and deleted 'checksum' registry
entries.

This is _very_ unlikely to be a software problem. Unless the controller
BIOS does some bad hardware initialisation...

Still no joy.

There is one more component that often has problems that surface
in various surprising ways: The PSU. Can you test the disk with
a different PSU?

Thanks, appreciate your patience.

I was about to try replacing it with a MAXTOR 60 GB I have at hand to
see if I still get the 'controller errors'. But instead I first did
something I should have tried sooner: boot up to a copy of XP Home I
made months ago in another partition. In that environment, I am still
in PIO mode on that drive. Does that conclusively rule out software?

Cannot say for sure, but at least it makes it less likely.

And imply it must be either
- the drive itself is fundamentally flawed, despite its newness?

Possible. The only think I can think of is semiconductor failure, very
unlikely today, but it still happens. Maybe static electricity damaged
a bus-driver. That could also have happened on the controller
side. The bus-drivers are hardened against this, but it is still a
possibility.

- the power supply?

Yes. I think you should try that next. It could generate enough
noise to interfere with data transfer on the cables.

- and, I suppose, the m/b?

Well, the controller, yes. Might also be an unlucky combination
of a not too serious problem with controller and disk that only
surfaces when you combine both.

Some more things to try:

- Move the disk to the other controller channel (other connector).
- Try with your other disk.

Replaced the newish 200 GB with its 4-year old 60 GB predecessor - and
UDMA 5 is back!

So, although I suppose it *could* still be some obscure software issue
connected with the very large size of the drive, the most likely
explanation appears to be a faulty drive, yes?

It would seem that way, agreed.

Only bought it in October, from Misco, UK. Wonder what my chances of
getting a replacement are...?

You best find out. The first step would be to test the drive with
Maxtor's PowerMax, it does an interface test as well, if I remember
correctly. It PowerMax tells you to replace the drive, you should
get a warranty replacement.

Arno

 

[ohaya]

Terry,

I've been following this thread, and I know it must be frustrating ...

Some drive manufacturers have utilities (e.g., Samsung) that allow to do
do things like set the drive to only support certain UDMA modes, or to
even disable UDMA on the drive, I think.

Is it possible that somehow this drive may have been configured to
disable UDMA?

I don't know if this is even something that the Maxtor utility/utilities
allows you to set, but I thought I'd ask.

Jim

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Terry,

I've been following this thread, and I know it must be frustrating ...

Some drive manufacturers have utilities (e.g., Samsung) that allow to do
do things like set the drive to only support certain UDMA modes, or to
even disable UDMA on the drive, I think.

Is it possible that somehow this drive may have been configured to
disable UDMA?

I don't know if this is even something that the Maxtor utility/utilities
allows you to set, but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks, Jim, but this drive was originally (and for at least several
months) working fine in DMA mode. If you've ever experienced PIO,
about 10 times slower than UDMA 5 from my rough observations, you'd
know it could not go unnoticed for long <g>.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

So, although I suppose it *could* still be some obscure software issue
connected with the very large size of the drive, the most likely
explanation appears to be a faulty drive, yes?

One last thing before you return it: if it's configured as cable select,
try jumpering it as master or slave (actually, if you have two devices
on the cable, I'd try it on its own, at the end of the cable, jumpered
as master.)

 

[Terry Pinnell]

One last thing before you return it: if it's configured as cable select,
try jumpering it as master or slave (actually, if you have two devices
on the cable, I'd try it on its own, at the end of the cable, jumpered
as master.)

Misco UK collected it yesterday! They plan to check it out and ('if
approved') repair or replace it.

That would have been an interesting test you suggested. I did in fact
consider replacing it again, once I had the 60GB on UDMA 5, to see if
by some miracle it would now work properly. But by then I'd spent over
2 days on the darned issue, and was so relieved to get UDMA 5 again,
that I settled for that as a temporary measure. (Another few hours
were needed though to reorganise my scheduled backups; the 177GB had
been my backup drive!)

So 'in about 2 weeks' I'm either going to get the 200GB Maxtor back
with a note saying they can find nothing wrong with it, or a new
identical drive. Regardless, I'm thinking of getting an alternative
type. Apart from getting me my capacity back again much sooner, that
would give me a spare (the replaced/returned Maxtor) for any future
emergency.

I'd therefore appreciate recommendations please. Odie Ferrous was
unequivocal, and I know Seagate do have a good reputation. But any
others? Specific 200GB models please, that the experts here think
would be suitable on my IDE Primary Slave channel.

 

[Rod Speed]

Misco UK collected it yesterday! They plan to check it out and ('if
approved') repair or replace it.

That would have been an interesting test you suggested. I did in fact
consider replacing it again, once I had the 60GB on UDMA 5, to see if
by some miracle it would now work properly. But by then I'd spent over
2 days on the darned issue, and was so relieved to get UDMA 5 again,
that I settled for that as a temporary measure. (Another few hours
were needed though to reorganise my scheduled backups; the 177GB had
been my backup drive!)

So 'in about 2 weeks' I'm either going to get the 200GB Maxtor back
with a note saying they can find nothing wrong with it, or a new
identical drive. Regardless, I'm thinking of getting an alternative
type. Apart from getting me my capacity back again much sooner, that
would give me a spare (the replaced/returned Maxtor) for any future
emergency.

I'd therefore appreciate recommendations please. Odie Ferrous was
unequivocal, and I know Seagate do have a good reputation. But any
others? Specific 200GB models please, that the experts here think
would be suitable on my IDE Primary Slave channel.

I prefer the Samsungs myself, mainly because
they are so quiet and are decently reliable.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

Specific 200GB models please, that the experts here think
would be suitable on my IDE Primary Slave channel.

Pretty much anything except ExcelStor and Maxtor will be OK. Even
Hitachi drives (IBM as-was) seem pretty good nowadays, though I had a
recent failure of one of their 500GB units.

The Antipodean idiot Speed that posts here will recommend a Samsung, but
I have no experiences or data to share on recent models. The fact that
he recommends them is reason enough to give them a wide berth IMO.

 

[Rod Speed]

Pretty much anything except ExcelStor and Maxtor will be OK.
Even Hitachi drives (IBM as-was) seem pretty good nowadays,
though I had a recent failure of one of their 500GB units.

Have fun explaining the high failure rate of SOME Seagate drives.

The Antipodean idiot Speed that posts here will recommend a Samsung,
but I have no experiences or data to share on recent models. The fact
that he recommends them is reason enough to give them a wide berth IMO.

Thanks for that completey superfluous proof of
what a terminal ****wit you have always been.

 

[Odie Ferrous]

Have fun explaining the high failure rate of SOME Seagate drives.

To wit:

160GB
200GB
250GB (especially)


The only Seagate drives I sell are 120GB and 300GB. Don't have much
call for 500GB, but wouldn't really hesitate.


Odie

 

[J. Clarke]

To wit:

160GB
200GB
250GB (especially)


The only Seagate drives I sell are 120GB and 300GB. Don't have much
call for 500GB, but wouldn't really hesitate.

If you're seeing Barrcuda 7200.9 120 and 300GB drives showing higher
reliability than the 160, 200, and 250 that use the same identical
components then your methodology has something badly wrong with it.

 

[Odie Ferrous]

If you're seeing Barrcuda 7200.9 120 and 300GB drives showing higher
reliability than the 160, 200, and 250 that use the same identical
components then your methodology has something badly wrong with it.

My methodology is only as reliable as the drives I get in for recovery,
and from personal experience.

I am assuming that Seagate sell (have sold) fairly large volumes of all
their drives. However, of all Seagate drives I have had in for
recovery, the 120GB and 300GB have been the rarest.

I have had numbers of 160GB, 200GB and 250GB drives in for recovery.

I personally purchased about 11 or 12 250GB drives just under a year ago
- 9 had to be returned within weeks. Sure, it might have been a bad
batch, but I have had slightly higher numbers of those in for recovery.

You know as well as I do that the physical makeup of a 160GB or 250GB
drive is different from a 300GB drive (heads / platters) - so that's
probably where the problem lies.

I have the precise details somewhere around - but can't be arsed to
locate them right now.


Odie

 

[Rod Speed]

My methodology is only as reliable as the drives I
get in for recovery, and from personal experience.

I am assuming that Seagate sell (have sold)
fairly large volumes of all their drives.

They may not however have sold in anything like equal
volumes with some of the sizes of the same technology.

That alone will signficantly bias what you see in dead drives.

However, of all Seagate drives I have had in for
recovery, the 120GB and 300GB have been the rarest.

I have had numbers of 160GB, 200GB
and 250GB drives in for recovery.

That may just have been something to do with the
volume they have sold of those particular sizes.

I personally purchased about 11 or 12 250GB drives
just under a year ago - 9 had to be returned within
weeks. Sure, it might have been a bad batch,

Yep, someone may have dropped the pallet etc.

but I have had slightly higher numbers of those in for recovery.

And you should have seen a lot more if the field
experience is anything like you saw with yours.

You know as well as I do that the physical makeup of a 160GB
or 250GB drive is different from a 300GB drive (heads / platters)
- so that's probably where the problem lies.

Yes, it is clear from the storagereview stats that some
of their drives are significantly worse than others.

 

[J. Clarke]

My methodology is only as reliable as the drives I get in for recovery,
and from personal experience.

I am assuming that Seagate sell (have sold) fairly large volumes of all
their drives. However, of all Seagate drives I have had in for
recovery, the 120GB and 300GB have been the rarest.

I have had numbers of 160GB, 200GB and 250GB drives in for recovery.

I personally purchased about 11 or 12 250GB drives just under a year ago
- 9 had to be returned within weeks. Sure, it might have been a bad
batch, but I have had slightly higher numbers of those in for recovery.

Were you able to determine the cause of failure? Sounds like somebody at
UPS dropped the box hard. 9 out of 12 isn't a problem with the drive--no
manufacturer makes them _that_ bad.

You know as well as I do that the physical makeup of a 160GB or 250GB
drive is different from a 300GB drive (heads / platters) - so that's
probably where the problem lies.

I doubt that there's any mechanical difference between the 250 and the 300.

I have the precise details somewhere around - but can't be arsed to
locate them right now.

I think you're seeing a biased sample again. You really need to correct for
volume sold--if there are lots of 160s, 200s, and 250s out there but few
120 and 300 in the same series then you would expect to see more of the
160s, 200s, and 250s failing.

 

[lffisher]

I read this entire thread and am having the same issue - hopefully on
of you can help me fix it

I have a 2 year old Dell Dimension 4600 running XP Pro SP2. I jus
bought a BenQ DW 1655 and I simply cannot get both CD/DVD drives t
be in DMA mode

The Master (device 0), at the end of the cable, is always DMA On, an
the Slave (device 1) in the middle of the cable is always DMA off an
PIO mode

I have tried switching the drives to no avail, so I know it isn't
drive issue. Either drive will have DMA on if it is the drive
master at the end of the cable. I have tried a new cable, both 4
pin and 80 pin. I have tried uninstalling the Secondary ID
controller. I have tried doing a XP Pro SP2 repair install. I a
out of ideas

Any ideas? Dell tech support is utterly useless - I'm wondering if i
is a Dell mobo problem

Incidentally, my two hard drives may have the same issue. My secon
hard drive is in PIO mode and it wont go into DMA. I haven't trie
swapping drives or a new cable for those though..

Could this be a Dell mobo issue? I have no idea what to do next

THANKS