UNC path versus mapped drives

[marsha]

Hi All,

I have been studying Phillip Windell's post. I would like to understand how
to set up
a UNC path for 5 computers (3 xp home and 2 w2k) on work group shared
network
with a mapped folder on one computer (xp) that holds the data for the group
using a
specialized software. The problem is disconnects and the need to
reestablish password
reconnection several times a week. I can't figure out if the mapped folder
is the problem,
.... or what.

So I am interested in trying a UNC path. The mapped drive is "N" for the
software purposes.
It is what the developers told us to use.

Any help appreciated!!!
Thanks

 

[Kurt]

There's no real difference between mapping a drive and directly using the
same UNC path you used to map the drive. If you map a drive from the command
line it looks like:

net use N: \\server\share

the UNC path is \\server\share, so they ultimately point to the same target
using the identical reference. Disconnected drives can be for a variety of
reasons, but the fact that the users must re-enter passwords suggests a
workgroup environment with conflicting credentials between the
username/password the users is logging on with, and the username/password
for that same user on the computer that is sharing the folder. If your
environment is distributed (you have lots of shares on a bunch of different
computers and no domain for central authentication), you might want to
restrict users from being able to change their passwords. If you have more
than 10 computers, you should seriously look into spending a few bucks for a
server OS and an active directory.

....kurt

 

[GTS]

XP HOME is accessed through the guest account which normally doesn't have a
password. Is it the "specialized software" that requires a user logon? Is
the problem the same when accessing it from both the XP HOME and Win 2K
machines?

 

[marsha]

XP HOME is accessed through the guest account which normally doesn't have a
password. Is it the "specialized software" that requires a user logon? Is
the problem the same when accessing it from both the XP HOME and Win 2K
machines?

We just added users to the machine which is sharing the folder as a mapped
drive
to all of the other computers. There is that computer and 6 others. None
of the
6 other computers change their user name but there are different printers
associated
with three of the "client" computers and they share there printer with all
of the 5 other
computers.

I don't think there is any difference between an xp home or a w2k trying to
access
the mapped folder.

I am changing out the computer that has the shared folder on it tonight. I
will take it
from an xp home machine back to a w2k machine that it was initially. That
has worked
though not well (lots of disconnects). But the xp machine doesn't work at
all for sharing
that folder and we can't figure out why.

Thanks so much!!!!! I have worked on this for days!!!

 

[Phillip Windell]

There is one difference. Mapped Drives keep a constant connection (till they
time out),...UNC paths are just "paths",..there is no connection untill the
moment they are used, then the connection ends. There are no
"connection-timeout-reconnection" issue that you have with mapped drives.

Phil

 

[Phillip Windell]

a UNC path for 5 computers (3 xp home and 2 w2k) on work group shared
network with a mapped folder on one computer (xp) that holds the data for

the group

For "human use" just browse to the location you want a "path" to. When you
get there drag a Shortcut from the Windows Explorer Address Bar to the
Desktop or whereever you want to keep it.

using a specialized software. The problem is disconnects and the need to reestablish
password reconnection several times a week. I can't figure out if the mapped folder
is the problem,
So I am interested in trying a UNC path. The mapped drive is "N" for the
software purposes.
It is what the developers told us to use.

You are probably screwed. Poorly written Applications aren't capable of
using UNC Pathes. The software designers responsible for the Application
need to come out of the Dark Ages and write the Application to be network
aware so that it can be set to look at a UNC path for its "Data Path".

In a workgroup environment you will *still* have make sure that the user
acount/password combinations are in sync across all machines. You will
always have a hassle with that until you deploy a Domain and get rid of
that.

 

[marsha]

In a workgroup environment you will *still* have make sure that the user
acount/password combinations are in sync across all machines. You will
always have a hassle with that until you deploy a Domain and get rid of
that.

Wouldn't the application software have a problem with a Domain?? Or can
I install a Domain with any network? What exactly is required?

Thanks Much!!!!

 

[marsha]

You are probably screwed. Poorly written Applications aren't capable of
using UNC Pathes.

I just heard back from them and you are right. They don't offer UNC paths.
However,
they did say I probably need a designated server running server software.
That floored me
as they have NEVER mentioned server software in all the years they have been
providing
the software. Don't the developers of software generally make the server
software????

They are implying that I need to get a dedicated server. I have the
hardware and don't mind
buying the software, but there are NO instructions from them. How am I
supposed to know
what to do???

Thanks for any help!!!!

 

[Kurt]

Right you are. I just meant that if the users must re-authenticate in order
to re-connect a mapped drive to a share, they almost certainly would have to
do the same to connect to the share using the UNC path.

 

[Kurt]

1) They are most likely referring to a Windows server OS, which at this time
would be Server 2003. But with only six connections, a Windows 2000 pro or
XP box should do. In one of your previuos posts you said "We just added
users to the machine which is sharing the folder as a mapped
drive to all of the other computers". I take this to mean that on the
computer with the shared folder (the "server'), you created accounts that
match the usernames and passwords of the users logging on to the other
computers, which should solve most of your problems. As mentioned by another
poster, you can always enable the "guest" account, which pretty much grants
access to anyone with no authentication required.

2) Setting up a domain is not a big deal, but migrating all of your local
user settings (email, desktops, favorites, etc) can sometimes be
challenging. If you're up to the task, it's worth doing. It centralizes all
of your users/passwords, allows you to manage users and computers, gives you
a much higher level of security. But you will have to upgrade any XP Home
machines tp pro, as they refuse to participate in a domain.

....kurt

 

[marsha]

1) They are most likely referring to a Windows server OS, which at this time
would be Server 2003. But with only six connections, a Windows 2000 pro or
XP box should do. In one of your previuos posts you said "We just added
users to the machine which is sharing the folder as a mapped
drive to all of the other computers". I take this to mean that on the
computer with the shared folder (the "server'), you created accounts that
match the usernames and passwords of the users logging on to the other
computers, which should solve most of your problems.

Exactly right. That is actually how we have always done it.

As mentioned by another
poster, you can always enable the "guest" account, which pretty much grants
access to anyone with no authentication required.

I have never used a guest account that way. I would like to try it.
Exactly how do I
do that??

2) Setting up a domain is not a big deal, but migrating all of your local
user settings (email, desktops, favorites, etc) can sometimes be
challenging. If you're up to the task, it's worth doing. It centralizes all
of your users/passwords, allows you to manage users and computers, gives you
a much higher level of security. But you will have to upgrade any XP Home
machines tp pro, as they refuse to participate in a domain.

Could we just buy W2K and put it on the xp home machines?? And it does
sound like I would like to set up a domain. But how does that reduce the
problems?
And I gather (please correct me if wrong), that a domain doesn't require
real
server software????

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Phillip Windell]

Wouldn't the application software have a problem with a Domain?? Or can
I install a Domain with any network? What exactly is required?

The Application wouldn't know a Domain if it tripped over it,...and it
doesn't matter,..it is irrelevant.

--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp

Deployment Guidelines for ISA Server 2004 Enterprise Edition
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/isa/2004/deploy/dgisaserver.mspx
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[Phillip Windell]

I just heard back from them and you are right. They don't offer UNC paths.
However, they did say I probably need a designated server running server software.
That floored me as they have NEVER mentioned server software in all the years they
have been

It is "BS" from them. I see no need of a dedicated server in this
case,..and even if you had one the Mapped Drive "issue/problem/behavior" is
still that same.

--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp

Deployment Guidelines for ISA Server 2004 Enterprise Edition
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/isa/2004/deploy/dgisaserver.mspx
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[GTS]

Marsha,

I think there's a lot of confusion here. FWIW -

1. The domain vs. workgroup issue is almost certainly irrelevant to your
problem. If I've understood you correctly, the problem is losing or
establishing connections, not that the software won't function in a
workgroup setting when a connection is established.

2. For accessing a share on an XP Home PC use of the guest account is NOT
optional. Windows XP HOME is limited to a file sharing method called Simple
File Sharing which allows access to shares EXCLUSIVELY through the guest
account. Creating the others user names on an XP HOME machine is completely
irrelevant.

To see status of the guest account open a command prompt and run >net user
guest
To enable the guest account run >net user guest /active:yes

To learn more about this see.

How to configure file sharing in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=304040
and
Windows XP Simple File Sharing
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp/filesharing.htm

3. Perhaps you could clarify something about the problem. Initially you
said there were problems with losing connections. Later you said other
machines couldn't connect at all to the XP HOME share (implying a firewall
blockage or disabled guest account). Also, that there is no distinction in
the behaviors of the Win 2K and XP Home machines. Is that an accurate
summary?

GTS
--

 

[marsha]

It is "BS" from them. I see no need of a dedicated server in this
case,..and even if you had one the Mapped Drive "issue/problem/behavior" is
still that same.

Thanks Phillip. Wouldn't a machine with server software like Windows Server
2003
provide a better platform since it would be set up to work with most
resources set
to background and allow more concurrent connections?? Thanks again for your
wonderful info!

 

[marsha]

Marsha,

I think there's a lot of confusion here. FWIW -

Well I'm confused. That is why I am here studying every word that each
person has to add. I love this thread. I hope everyone is getting as much
out
of it as am trying to.

1. The domain vs. workgroup issue is almost certainly irrelevant to your
problem. If I've understood you correctly, the problem is losing or
establishing connections, not that the software won't function in a
workgroup setting when a connection is established.

I'm gathering that I don't need to set up a domain situation.

2. For accessing a share on an XP Home PC use of the guest account is NOT
optional. Windows XP HOME is limited to a file sharing method called Simple
File Sharing which allows access to shares EXCLUSIVELY through the guest
account. Creating the others user names on an XP HOME machine is completely
irrelevant.

Well, I have switched the server to W2K (we own both OS's). But I am
confused
about users. Let me make it very simple. On the computer that holds the
data folder,
I have gone to Control Panel, Users and Passwords and setup each computer
name
as a user with a password. That is the only way that I have ever been able
to make
this software work. I always see a "Guest" user when I set up the names.
But I have
not used the "Guest" user. To do that would I just have each user computer
sign in
as Guest??? Is that what that is about??? Would that gain me anything???

To learn more about this see.

How to configure file sharing in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=304040
and
Windows XP Simple File Sharing
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp/filesharing.htm

I will study these as soon as I have killed the alligators du jour.

3. Perhaps you could clarify something about the problem. Initially you
said there were problems with losing connections.

What I meant was many times a week, one of the users will be unable to
access
the data folder on the "server" machine. To solve that problem, we usually
have
to shut down the "server" machine and all the users and then restart the
"server"
and after is is up, restart the users. That works even if it sometimes
takes several
tries.

Later you said other
machines couldn't connect at all to the XP HOME share (implying a firewall
blockage or disabled guest account).

Yes, we just bought a new computer with xp home and were going to replace
the
old w2k "server" machine. I could never get the users to connect to the xp
home
machine. But I now am tending to think it is this software and it's
limitations but it
could be so many different things.

Also, that there is no distinction in
the behaviors of the Win 2K and XP Home machines. Is that an accurate
summary?

I meant that when we have the just mentioned connection problem it is as
likely to
be a user that is a w2k computer OR an xp home computer OR the one xp prof
computer that we have. The network doesn't discriminate but is an equal
problem
employer.

Thanks GTS for all of your wonderful info and help and insights!!!

 

[Phillip Windell]

I'm gathering that I don't need to set up a domain situation.

XP Home is not capable of joining a domain anyway. I did not realize we
were dealing with XP Home,...I hate XP Home so much that I actually forget
it exists sometimes and assume everything is XP Pro.

Phil

 

[Phillip Windell]

Thanks Phillip. Wouldn't a machine with server software like Windows Server
2003
provide a better platform since it would be set up to work with most
resources set
to background and allow more concurrent connections??

Well,..yes,..no,,..maybe,..kinda-sorta. It is really irrelevant in this
case. Workgroup workstations can have up to 10 concurrent connections.

 

[marsha]

Well,..yes,..no,,..maybe,..kinda-sorta. It is really irrelevant in this
case. Workgroup workstations can have up to 10 concurrent connections.

Ten!!?? Just ten??? The machine used as a server with the data folder
is probably getting more than ten connections from 5 users at times. They
might be pulling a data file to work on, a photo to go with it and also
storing
back a word document. The ten mark could be hit very quickly. Maybe that
is our problem.....

 

[Phillip Windell]

Ten!!?? Just ten??? The machine used as a server with the data folder
is probably getting more than ten connections from 5 users at times. They
might be pulling a data file to work on, a photo to go with it and also
storing
back a word document. The ten mark could be hit very quickly. Maybe that
is our problem.....

It depends on how 10 is defined,...it is still 5 users, so maybe it is only
5 connections no matter what they are doing. It has never been clear to me
in the inner workings of the OS what constitues a "connection" under way the
"10 connection" limit is implemented.

You really ought to ditch the whole "workgroup thing" anyway regaurdless of
the connection limit. Add a real "server" and create a Domain. Keep the
Domain "simple",...there is not much to it if you keep it simple,...Domains
and Active Directory only become as complex as you personally make
them,...which usually happens when you try to "out smart" the system.

--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/ISA2004_AccessRules.html

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2004.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/techinfo/Guidance/2000.asp

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp

Deployment Guidelines for ISA Server 2004 Enterprise Edition
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/isa/2004/deploy/dgisaserver.mspx
-----------------------------------------------------