UAP - ugh

S

Steve

Excerpts from
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/04/microsoft_vista.html


Modern operating systems like Linux and Mac OS X operate under a
security model where even administrative users don't get full access
to certain features unless they provide an in-place logon before
performing any task that might harm the system. This type of security
model protects users from themselves, and it is something that
Microsoft should have added to Windows years ago.

Here's the good news. In Windows Vista, Microsoft is indeed moving to
this kind of security model. The feature is called User Account
Protection (UAP) and, as you might expect, it prevents even
administrative users from performing potentially dangerous tasks
without first providing security credentials, thus ensuring that the
user understands what they're doing before making a critical mistake.
It sounds like a good system. But this is Microsoft we're talking
about. They completely botched UAP.

The bad news is that UAP is a sad joke. It's the most annoying feature
that Microsoft has ever added to any software product. The problem
with UAP is that it throws up warning dialogs for even the simplest of
tasks.

The dialogs stack up, one after the other, in a seemingly never-ending
display of stupidity. Sometimes you'll find yourself unable to do
certain things for no good reason, and you click Allow buttons until
you're blue in the face.

The problem with the Security Through Endless Warning Dialogs school
of thought is that it doesn't work. All those earnest warning dialogs
blend together into a giant "click here to get work done" button that
nobody bothers to read any more. The operating system cries wolf so
much that when a real wolf rolls around, you'll mindlessly allow it
access to whatever it wants, just out of habit.

These dialog boxes are not security for the user, they're CYA security
from the user. When some piece of malware trashes your system,
Microsoft can say: "You gave the program permission to do that, it's
not our fault."

Warning dialog boxes are only effective if the user has the ability to
make intelligent decisions about the warnings. If the user cannot do
that, they're just annoyances. And they're annoyances that don't
improve security.



--

The wages of sin are death,
but by the time taxes are taken out,
it's just sort of a tired feeling.

....Paula Poundstone
 
P

Puppy Breath

That looks it's based on the earliest betas. My experience with current CTPs
has been nothing like that. I have to escalate privileges where appropriate,
sure. And once in a while I have to click an Allow box. But nothing that
even comes close to the criticisms in those mindless rants.
 
Z

Zack Whittaker

I think it's OK - yeh it needs some tweaking in a few (maybe a few more than
few...) places, but it's OK.

--
Zack Whittaker
» ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk
» MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org
» Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared
that up!

--: Original message follows :--
 
P

Puppy Breath

Well we've got several months of tweaking before there is an actual product.
By the time the product is released I bet most of the complaints will be the
hardware requirements and the fact that the interface is so different from
the Win 95-to-XP string of products.
 
J

John Jay Smith

people learn to automate the motion of pressing OK without thinking
thus it is extreamly dangerous...

they have to change it somehow. I dont like the way you have to enter a
password in linux
either.....

Xp had non administrator accounts... I dont understand the need for this....
they could ask you in the start if you want to be administrator or not
and have an explaination of the dangers, and then let the user decide....
 
P

Pierre Szwarc

I can't help but agree with the general idea. Putting myself in a typical
end-user's shoes, I can see the most blatant and overlooked security failing
in Windows, from NT through Vista: when you install the system, you need to
create one user account (in fact, up to Win2k, you didn't have to do even
that), which is an administrator by default. Do the MS people imagine, even
one second, that the end-user will bother to create another, limited,
account for his/her day-to-day usage? If they do, they're sadly disconnected
from reality (I just can't suppose they're *all* that stupid). There's still
time, I think, to correct it: when you install Vista (RTM), force the user
to create both an administrator and a standard account, and make the latter
the default login. And *explain* why this is necessary. The various
self-congratulation screens one sees during the setup process are quite
superfluous. Explaining why the end-user mustn't use an admin account for
ordinary tasks is much more important. And since it's mandatory to use an
admin account to run the system management tasks, then the numerous "allow"
dialogs are just a ridiculous nuisance, very much like the "validation"
process for Microsoft downloads.
--
Pierre Szwarc
Paris, France
PGP key ID 0x75B5779B
------------------------------------------------
Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom !
------------------------------------------------

"Steve" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de (e-mail address removed)...
|
| Excerpts from
| http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/04/microsoft_vista.html
|
[snip]
 
Z

Zack Whittaker

Needs a new driver - I'm not gonna write one for yer! I've got enough to do
as it is!!
Just save yourself time, money, and a lot of effort, and just buy yourself a
Windows Mobile 2003/5.0 phone instead, because then you can sync it up with
anything and everything :blush:)

--
Zack Whittaker
» ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk
» MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org
» Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk
» This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no
rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not
of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared
that up!

--: Original message follows :--
 
M

michael e dziatkowicz

Puppy Breath said:
That looks it's based on the earliest betas. My experience with current
CTPs has been nothing like that. I have to escalate privileges where
appropriate, sure. And once in a while I have to click an Allow box. But
nothing that even comes close to the criticisms in those mindless rants.

Does 5308 fix this problem? I downloaded it last night from MSDN but haven't
installed it yet.
 
P

Puppy Breath

There's not doubt that the whole concept of bringing the "typical" corporate
security model into the home environment is going to throw people for a
loop. After all, nobody has the job title "system administrator" in a
household. After the stiff hardware requirements and new interface, this is
likely to be the #3 main reason for slow adoption of Vista.
 
P

Puppy Breath

5308 is OK on the privilege escalation and Allow boxes. At least, I'm not
getting an extreme number of them and they're not piling up at all. I stay
in my Standard account all the time except for a few high-level security
things.
 
P

Pierre Szwarc

I don't know about that. I mean, it didn't stop the adoption of XP, did it?
It just delayed it a bit, but after a while XP went into homes like a hot
knife into butter.
--
Pierre Szwarc
Paris, France
PGP key ID 0x75B5779B
------------------------------------------------
Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom !
------------------------------------------------

"Puppy Breath" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de (e-mail address removed)...
| There's not doubt that the whole concept of bringing the "typical"
corporate
| security model into the home environment is going to throw people for a
| loop. After all, nobody has the job title "system administrator" in a
| household. After the stiff hardware requirements and new interface, this
is
| likely to be the #3 main reason for slow adoption of Vista.
 
P

Puppy Breath

So will Vista. It'll probably just take a little longer because it's a more
radical change. More like the change from DOS to Windows than the change
from ME/2000/98 or whatever to XP.
 
E

Ed Dixon

It will go into homes because PCs will be sold with only Vista. The better
measure is purchased upgrades.

A fair percentage of corporate users have not even moved to XP. Many are
still running the OS that came with their PC, which is true of a large
percentage of users, regardless of category or location.

Ed
 

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