two spaces or one

[CyberTaz]

Hi Stephen;

One more voice to the choir after having watched this conversation...
Whenever it arises I'm always tempted to ask one fundamental question;

If you think back to when you first were taught to print sentences, did your
teacher instruct you to put "2 spaces" between sentences or was the
instruction to leave "space" between sentences?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[bj]

When I was first taught to *type* the teacher was most insistant about
2-spaces & even got cranky because I used my *left* thumb to press the
spacebar (I still do, more than 50 years later).

My early *hand*-writing school years were in several different
states/countries/languages; no telling what I was told.
bj

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I would have no idea which thumb I use for spacing; apparently it's the
right, but I would have assumed you use whichever is handiest at the time,
same as for shifting.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[LVTravel]

I would have no idea which thumb I use for spacing; apparently it's the
right, but I would have assumed you use whichever is handiest at the time,
same as for shifting.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Actually in typewriter days it was always the right thumb, even for
southpaws that were trained as touch typists. And yes, my typing teacher,
Miss Becky Moore, would really get on your case if you used anything other
than your right thumb.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I guess my typing teacher taught me well, then, even if I still can't type
on the top row without looking. It's a funny thing about that, actually: I
*can* type many characters on the top row without looking, but if something
hides the top row (as when I'm copying from a book that sticks out over the
edge of the desk and shades the top row of the keyboard (which is on a lower
keyboard tray), then I will inevitably miss when I go for a hyphen or
parenthesis. It's bound to be purely psychological, since I can hit them
unerringly without looking otherwise.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[CyberTaz]

Exactly the point...

It wasn't until the introduction of the typewriter that the concept of "a"
space took on any finite dimension. The objective of "space between
sentences" is for the purpose of visual clarity, but the appropriate amount
of space is subjectively predicated on what precedes & follows the space. I
seriously doubt that '2 spaces' ever dripped from the tongue or even crossed
the mind of Guttenberg.

As so often happens, laxity in communication is what has triggered this
seemingly unending but totally unfounded debate. My 'guess' is that the
actual original instruction was "Press the spacebar twice after a period."
because pressing the spacebar once often did not create a sufficient amount
of space. The compensatory workaround for *increasing the amount of space*
became loosely translated into "type 2 spaces".

Logically there can't be "2 spaces" -- the size of the 1 space is either
more or less, narrower or wider. To accomplish the objective on a typewriter
necessitates pressing the space bar a second time, whereas the precise
adjustment of that space is intrinsic to proportional fonts.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[bj]

Actually in typewriter days it was always the right thumb, even for
southpaws that were trained as touch typists. And yes, my typing teacher,
Miss Becky Moore, would really get on your case if you used anything other
than your right thumb.

(My other reply went off on cyber-vacation.)

I think we must have had the same teacher, or a clone thereof.

bj
(left-thumb-spacing since 1957)

 

[Twayne]

In

What is the preferred way of typing today, to put one or
two spaces at the end of a sentence?

It would seem that, with fixed-width fonts, a doublespace is
used. With proportional spaced fonts it's often only necessary
to use one.

But you'll find a lot of various opinions - some even the
opposite of what I just gave. I learned two on the typewriter
and still use it; no one has ever complained and most seem to
not care anyway. I'd say it's up to the person at the keyboard
and what he thinks it looks like.

HTH,

Twayne`

 

[Twayne]

In

Top posting is a heinous crime, for which you should be
flogged around the fleet.

On some sites. But here the concensus seems to be that it
doesn't matter. I bottom post unless there is already a top
post; then I top post to keep it all aligned.
It's a silly thing for anyone to argue about or even
debate, actually. Netiquette & most gurus believe in the trim
& inline, then bottom if no inline. Personally I couldn't
care which. I stay out of trouble by simply using what the
concensus is. Oh, and ignoring dummies who troll to make an
arguement out of it.

I agree - who really cares?

HTH,

Twayne`

 

[Twayne]

In

For some reason my similar reply to this post (made eleven
minutes before yours) is not showing up, and one posted by
Terry is struck through and marked as "unavailable." Looks
like we're having server upsets again. <sigh>

Had one a moment ago. I've found that if you go on to the next
post, then come back to the lined thru one, often it'll show
the second time. Just a reload doesn't work though. From
Here, anyway.

HTH,

Twayne`

 

[Twayne]

In

Hi Stephen;

One more voice to the choir after having watched this
conversation... Whenever it arises I'm always tempted
to ask one fundamental question;

If you think back to when you first were taught to print
sentences, did your teacher instruct you to put "2 spaces"
between sentences or was the instruction to leave "space"
between sentences?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

Yeah, but ... wouldn't you consider cursive writing to be moot
compared to a set of keys?

 

[Terry Farrell]

What really annoys me about bottom posting is that many perpetrators NEVER
trim the post. I agree that keeping at least the previous answer when you
reply is necessary, but sometimes replies are so far down the page I just
refuse to scroll down to read the answer.

Top posting a simple answer to a simple question seems to work really well
in here where most users top post.

Terry Farrell

 

[Terry Farrell]

Surely back in the days when printing was achieved by placing mirror
characters onto a plate, there must have been a set of spaces for different
uses (following a comma, following quotation marks, following an end of
sentence stop, etc.). The typewriter had a limited availability of
characters, so the number of different spaces was sacrificed - hence the
need for a double space after the end-of-sentence stop.

Sometimes when I read my daily newspaper, I wish they would return to 'hot
metal' presses!

Terry Farrell

 

[bj]

Sometimes when I read my daily newspaper, I wish they would return to 'hot
metal' presses!

The way things are going, you won't have to worry about what's *on* the
paper -- there won't *be* any paper, it'll all be online. Maybe a Daily
Linker to give titles & article links. Probably all by e-mail.

I sure do spend a lot less time on the (ever-shrinking) daily paper than I
used to! even the Sunday paper doesn't take that long anymore. It's
confusing my routine.
bj
(what are they lining bird-cages with now?)

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Along with not trimming, there is the issue of not noticing that you are
posting your answer in an existing line, which is going to start with a
quote character. This makes it very hard to determine where the reply
begins, since it appears to be part of the quoted text.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

What really annoys me about bottom posting is that many perpetrators NEVER
trim the post. I agree that keeping at least the previous answer when you
reply is necessary, but sometimes replies are so far down the page I just
refuse to scroll down to read the answer.

Top posting a simple answer to a simple question seems to work really well
in here where most users top post.

Terry Farrell

In

[Snippy]

The bottom line is, who really cares? Except maybe those
who chastise others for top posting ;-)

Top posting is a heinous crime, for which you should be
flogged around the fleet.

On some sites. But here the concensus seems to be that it doesn't matter.
I bottom post unless there is already a top post; then I top post to keep
it all aligned.
It's a silly thing for anyone to argue about or even debate, actually.
Netiquette & most gurus believe in the trim & inline, then bottom if no
inline. Personally I couldn't care which. I stay out of trouble by
simply using what the concensus is. Oh, and ignoring dummies who troll to
make an arguement out of it.

I agree - who really cares?

HTH,

Twayne`

Dave

And no emoticon get-out, it's a serious business y'know.

:-\~

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

When compositors set type by hand, they insert spaces of varying widths to
make up the line. A Linotype automatically inserts the correct number of
thin spaces between words to justify the line (the Linotypist types all the
characters, pressing the spacebar once after each; when he hits Return, the
machine does the spacing automatically, just as in Word). In some
typesetting manual, I saw an instruction to leave "the space of the line"
(that is, the automatic space, whatever that turns out to be) after a
period, which would mean one press of the spacebar.

By and large, if you examine contemporary printed books from mainline
publishing houses, you'll see this convention followed, but if you look at
older books (typeset in the nineteenth century, for example), you may well
see more space between sentences.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[CyberTaz]

<snip>

Yeah, but ... wouldn't you consider cursive writing to be moot
compared to a set of keys?

<snip>

Absolutely not.

The purpose of the space is based on the same fundamental principle
regardless of the technology being used to produce the document

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Twayne]

In

Along with not trimming, there is the issue of not noticing
that you are posting your answer in an existing line, which
is going to start with a quote character. This makes it
very hard to determine where the reply begins, since it
appears to be part of the quoted text.

Gotta agree there! A Return before and after a response
improves readability a LOT.

HTH,

Twayne`

 

[Tim Mastrogiacomo]

What is the preferred way of typing today, to put one or two spaces at the
end of a sentence?

It seems like using two spaces is becoming less popular, but you still
them used consistently it in certain technical manuals that have many
decimals, symbols, etc. In those situations they make the text more
readable.


Tim Mastrogiacomo