TV tuner & Hydravision, questions

[Jonathan Sachs]

I am currently using a very old All-In-Wonder PCI card, and I'm interested
in upgrading my system to support dual monitors. I originally planned to buy
an All-In-Wonder 9600 and use it with ATI's Hydravision software, but I'm on
a tight budget, and I'm looking for ways to economize.

It occurred to me that Hydravision might let me keep my current video
adapter and add a second, cheaper single-monitor adapter. I looked at the
specifications of the 7500, which is a single-monitor card, and it said that
the card supports Hydravision. But the Hydravision literature lists just a
few supported adapters, not including my old one.

Looking for another perspective on this, I consulted Microsoft's literature
on Windows XP. I found that it has built-in support for multiple monitors,
the only requirement being that they use the AGP or PCI bus.

So it appears that Hydravision performs a function that is already built
into Windows, except that it works only with a subset of ATI products, while
Windows will work out of the box with anything.

Now I'm puzzled about what Hydravision is for. I see that it supports
multiple switchable desktops, but I don't think that would be useful to me,
and if I change my mind I gather I can get shareware to do it. The other
things described in ATI's Hydravision literature, such as fading-in windows,
look more like gimmicks than features.

I can think of one possible reason for using Hydravision: to keep the TV
tuner software from getting confused by two video cards that both have
tuners. But ATI's web site gives no clue to whether this is a real problem,
and if it is, whether Hydravision solves it.

Can anyone clarify (1) why Hydravision is useful, and (2) what problems to
expect with two TV tuners in the same computer?

 

[Barry Watzman]

I can't clarify the Hydravision situation for you, but I can suggest
some options.

First, the older AIW cards -- up to and I believe including the AIW
Radeon (the original one with 32 meg of memory) are not supported by
Windows XP. As I understand it, they do work as video cards (there are
display drivers), but there is no software to drive the tuner or other
multimedia features (no MMC, essentially).

Second, when using two distinct and different video cards, one must be
AGP and the other must be PCI.

There are a number of very inexpensive video cards that you could
consider. These include the ATI Radeon VE (I'm talking about the "built
by ATI" card, designated "Dual Display Edition" -- watch out, there are
some very BAD "Radeon VE" cards made by other firms). Another
possibility is Radeon 7500 (not the AIW Radeon 7500, but just the Radeon
7500). Both of these cards have three outputs -- VGA, DVI (which can
drive a VGA monitor with an inexpensive connector adapter) and TV Video,
and Hydravision works with both of them. Both of these are CHEAP -- you
can get the Radeon VE card for about $20 on E-Bay, a bit more for the
7500, but still well under $50 (and maybe closer to half that).
Neither, however, is an All-in-Wonder card, and neither has a tuner.

For the tuner, you can use a TV Wonder VE (mono audio) or a TV Wonder
Pro. This is a 2-card solution, although only one of the cards is a
video card.

Another option, a 3-card solution, a TV Wonder VE or Pro, a PCI video
card and an All-in-Wonder AGP card (AIW Radeon 7500 or above), and you
can have dual tuner picture-in-picture. But it doesn't sound like
that's what you are driving at.

A card worth looking at is a Radeon 9600 (not the VE or SE, but the
straight "built by" Radeon 9600). Available for under $100, it's a
step-up in video cards from the Radeon 7500, you would need a separate
tuner card for TV. Like the 7500 and the Radeon VE Dual Display
Edition, it has three video outputs (analog VGA, DVI, TV Video).

However, as to your original question, I myself am a bit unclear on the
purpose and use of "Hydravision".

 

[Jonathan Sachs]

Barry, thanks for your advice. I will add some more details which may enable
you or another person to be more specific.

First, the older AIW cards -- up to and I believe including the AIW
Radeon (the original one with 32 meg of memory) are not supported by
Windows XP. As I understand it, they do work as video cards (there are
display drivers), but there is no software to drive the tuner...

Whatever type of card I now have, it is new enough that the Windows XP
driver supports it. Sort of. When I try to close the TV window it often
freezes, and the only way to clean up the desktop after that is to do a hard
reboot. Windows continues to run, but will not let me shut down normally.

I assume that whatever the problem is, running the tuner software with a
modern card will fix it, or at least will enable me to get support.
Therefore, a new tuner capability is a "must have" item for me. And I don't
see any reason to buy a plain Radeon card and a separate TV card; I don't
think that would be much cheaper, and it would use up a slot to no good
purpose. Thus, I am shopping for an inexpensive All-in-Wonder card, and the
7500 appears to be the only candidate.

Second, when using two distinct and different video cards, one must be
AGP and the other must be PCI.

Obviously both cannot be AGP, since there is only one AGP slot, but why
can't both be PCI? This seems very odd. It's academic, though, since I would
not consider buying a new PCI video card.

A card worth looking at is a Radeon 9600 (not the VE or SE, but the
straight "built by" Radeon 9600). Available for under $100, it's a
step-up in video cards from the Radeon 7500, you would need a separate
tuner card for TV. Like the 7500 and the Radeon VE Dual Display
Edition, it has three video outputs (analog VGA, DVI, TV Video).

Before I started thinking about keeping my old card I was looking at the
dual All-in-Wonder 9600, which is, of course, substantially more expensive.
Considering the Radeon 9600 vs. 7500, I don't see any reason to pay even a
little more money for card whose only advantage seems to be better
performance. I'm not a gamer, and to be truthful, my old PCI card is faster
than the blink of an eye for 99% of what I do.

 

[Andy]

Barry, thanks for your advice. I will add some more details which may enable
you or another person to be more specific.

I have the original (7200) AIW Radeon, and it works fine under Windows
XP. Currently using MMC 8.1.

Whatever type of card I now have, it is new enough that the Windows XP
driver supports it. Sort of. When I try to close the TV window it often
freezes, and the only way to clean up the desktop after that is to do a hard
reboot. Windows continues to run, but will not let me shut down normally.

I assume that whatever the problem is, running the tuner software with a
modern card will fix it, or at least will enable me to get support.
Therefore, a new tuner capability is a "must have" item for me. And I don't
see any reason to buy a plain Radeon card and a separate TV card; I don't
think that would be much cheaper, and it would use up a slot to no good
purpose. Thus, I am shopping for an inexpensive All-in-Wonder card, and the
7500 appears to be the only candidate.


Obviously both cannot be AGP, since there is only one AGP slot, but why
can't both be PCI? This seems very odd. It's academic, though, since I would
not consider buying a new PCI video card.

Both can be PCI cards. If you're thinking of getting an AIW Radeon
7500, what are you going to use as the second video card if you're not
buying a new PCI video card? If you're thinking of using your old AIW
card, it won't work as a secondary display adapter under Windows XP.

 

[Jonathan Sachs]

If you're thinking of using your old AIW
card, it won't work as a secondary display adapter under Windows XP.

Where can I find the information? Microsoft's Windows Resource Kit suggests
the opposite. It states that any adapter will work if it runs on the PCI or
AGP bus and will operate in GUI mode "without using VGA resources." The
information in Windows Help doesn't mention the "VGA resources" requirement,
which suggests to me that it's not a real issue.

 

[Andy]

http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/3663.html
Rage I, Rage II/II+, Rage IIc and Rage PRO graphics adapters will not
function as secondary display adapters in a Windows 2000 / XP
environment.

http://www.realtimesoft.com/multimon/db.asp
This database consists solely of real-world experiences other
multi-monitor users had with their video cards. The purpose of this
database is to assist you in making purchase decisions, but as always,
all information is provided as is, and no guarantee is given that a
given video card will work in your system.

=========
When running dual monitors using two cards, one of which being an ATI,
under Windows XP, you'll have a lot less headaches with the video
drivers working properly if the other card is NOT an ATI card.