Trying to PreOrder Vista Ultimate x64

[Robert Blacher]

Sheesh, Colin, you just gave away the farm! lol

It *sounds* like MSDN and TechNet Plus Direct are either very similar or
even identical in how they work.

The only reason I can think of for going through the agonizingly slow
process of downloading the same file more than once is if you erase the ISO
file AND lose your DVD!

I am anal compulsive when it comes to backups. I backup to multiple external
USB drives so, for me, unless my house burns down, I'll never download the
same file twice (assuming my "fireproof" safe where I store the DVDs isn't
as fireproof as they claimed!) But, it's OK to do so (I downloaded the
32-bit Vista RTM ISO to my 64-bit desktop as well as to my 32-bit laptop
because I burn DVDs on the desktop and also do backups from there. I was
also curious. :-}

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Welcome to the farm. Seriously, why be coy about it? There are lots of XP
users who have no idea that the cd is not copy protected and they should in
fact make back up copies. There will be plenty of Vista users who never
think of making a back up of the dvd. I too have backups all over the
place. I have been burned in the past for not doing it.

 

[Daze N. Knights]

----------QUOTE-----------
What is the difference between a TechNet subscription and an MSDN
subscription?
TechNet is designed for hands-on IT professionals who evaluate,
implement, maintain and support Microsoft solutions. The Microsoft
Developer Network (MSDN) subscription is designed for developers who
create and test applications built on Microsoft technologies. While
there is some content overlap, each subscription contains information
and resources that are specific to its audience. The TechNet library is
published monthly and contains the complete Microsoft Knowledge Base,
security updates, resource kits, technical training, operations and
deployment guides, white papers, case studies, downloads, and more. The
MSDN library is published quarterly and documents all Microsoft software
development kits (SDKs) and device driver kits (DDKs), provides sample
applications and utilities for Windows programmers, and contains the
Microsoft Developer Knowledge Base.
--------UNQUOTE---------
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/ms772427.aspx

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

"No" is very annoying.

 

[Robert Blacher]

Yup.

See also:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/ms772427.aspx which is the
FAQ. Both the EULA and the FAQ need some updating. They pre-exist TechNet
Plus Direct.

I assume it doesn't violate anything to paste the following from the TechNet
Subscriber Download page (some idiot lawyer, ahem, will tell me this is a
copyright problem):
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Announcements License Terms
This web site contains updated versions of certain software provided with
your TechNet subscription. The software provided via this web site is
licensed under the same terms and conditions contained in the Microsoft
Software License Terms you acquired either in your initial TechNet
subscription download or shipment, whichever applies. The TechNet license
terms document is also available for reference at "TechNet EULA."

As stated in the TechNet license terms, you may have additional rights or
restrictions to the TechNet license terms included with the software license
terms. You must review any such software license terms before you exercise
any of the rights described therein. By exercising a right, you agree to be
bound by the terms described in the license terms. If you do not agree to
the license terms, you are not authorized to install, copy, or otherwise use
the respective software.

TechNet Plus Is Now Online!
Every time you come to TechNet Plus online, you will get the latest
subscription news including updates on new software available on Subscriber
Downloads, information from the TechNet Plus team in the subscription blog,
and tips and tricks for getting the most our of your subscription.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________"TechNet EULA" in the first paragraph links to the EULA to which you linked.The blog mentioned in the last line can, I think!, be read by anyone. Trythis link:http://blogs.technet.com/technetplussubscriptions/rss.xmlThe blog "team" seems absolutely thrilled at how many people are downloadingVista RTM. That goes back to my sense that MS sees a great marketingthingie here re: early adopters, opinion-shapers, etc. But, it may alsojust be some MS kids who run TechNet Plus Direct, which is quite new, whoare getting patted on the heads by their bosses for selling so manysubscriptions in the last few weeks!And, if I write any more about this, I am going to start charging MS a salescommission and each of you a legal fee! Kidding! of course."Daze N. Knights" <[email protected]> wrote in messageIs the EULA you refer to "LICENSE TERMS FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE MICROSOFTTECHNET PLUS AND TECHNET DIRECT SUBSCRIPTIONS, which was last updated on7/28/06, and found athttp://www.microsoft.com/technet/abouttn/subscriptions/microsoft_software_license_terms.mspx> ?>> Robert Blacher wrote:>> Dale (I think) rightly took an indirect poke at me for offering freelegal advice in this newsgroup. Remember, you get what you pay for, which*certainly* applies to free legal advice from -- who me? So, I won't. >>>> Therefore, I am not typing the following (with me? c'mon others -- havea sense of humor sometimes): If you sign-up for TechNet Plus while thecurrent EULA is in effect, that license applies to anything you download forthe year of your subscription. An ex post facto change of the EULA cannotbe retroactive -- that's a breach of your contract with MS. And, your userights are defined by the EULA, not the term of your subscription.>>>> Have your family lawyer translate the above (lol)>>>>>> "Poten Tate" <[email protected]> wrote in messageThis is definitely a bargain and available now! Hope they don't changethe EULA a year from now and my copy is no longer legit. It is a bargain forus and MS. It is $50.00 more for a copy (64 bit upgrade) but MS doesn't haveto share any of the $350.00 with the retailer and there's no packaging sothey are coming out WAY ahead! So don't feel bad for giving MS a plug. Theywon't be.>>>>>> Trouble is I can't get in to buy a copy. Will keep trying. Thanks forthe reply>>>>>>>>>>>> "Robert Blacher" <[email protected]> wrote in messageYou have to burn a DVD. The downloads are in .ISO format! lol>>>>>>>> Yes, subject to the TechNet Plus Direct license (EULA), you may theninstall each download on up to 10 computers that *you* own for,paraphrasing, the purpose of evaluating the software. That is very weasilylawyerspeak. As I said earlier, MS knows how to speak clearly when theywant to -- look at the retail Vista EULA!>>>>>>>> Read Dale's post in this thread, read the EULA, make your own decision.I was tired last night and should have STFU! (er, yet another acronym thatmeans, ahem, loosely, "shut the **** up") >>>>>>>> "Hark Agin" <[email protected]> wrote in messageRobert, if I join TechNet Plus Direct, will I be able to burn a copyof Vista 64 bit and 32 bit. And will they never expire. I just want to get alegitimate copy now!!! Thanks.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Robert Blacher" <[email protected]> wrote in messageI have been SOOOOOOO resisting saying what I am about to say. Whatthe heck:>>>>>>>>>>>> You want a fully licensed, RTM version of Vista in 48 hours?>>>>>>>>>>>> Subscribe to Microsoft's TechNet Plus Direct ($349 US plus tax forthe first year) and download both DVDs -- the 64-bit version (which includesUltimate and the lesser versions depending on which key you use) and the32-bit ISO (ditto for versions). And, you'll get keys for all versionswhich are not in any way crippled or time limited.>>>>>>>>>>>> The EULA says you may use TechNet direct downloads *for evaluationpurposes* and activate each *version* on up to 10 computers. As a lawyerwho knows MS can write a killer EULA when they want to, that vague languageis not likely to be a mistake. If it is, act soon before MS's GeneralCounsel reads this newsgroup (as I am sure he does in his spare time) andre-writes the thing.>>>>>>>>>>>> For fear of killing the golden goose, I'm not going to go on aboutwhat a bargain Technet Direct Plus is at this moment in the Microsoftproduct cycle. Er, but Office 2007 Ultimate RTM is there, too.>>>>>>>>>>>> Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with TechNet Plus other than being a(recently) paid subscriber.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Stuart" <[email protected]> wrote in messageI'm looking at various vendors to get a copy of Vista Ultimate x64 -but I'm concerned that I will only get the x86 version! There are a plethoraof rumours about whether or not the DVD will include the x64 version and I'mreally not sure who to believe!>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Microsoft site doesn't help nor do the vendors.>>>>>>> There's no point buying an x86 Vista Ultimate DVD, it would simplybe a waste of shelf-sapce!>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can anyone point me to a page that clears up this confusion?>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TIA>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[Dale]

"You may use the evaluation software only to evaluate it. You may not use it
in a live operating, in a staging environment or with data that has not been
sufficiently backed up."


The prosecution rests.

Dale

 

[Robert Blacher]

Wow!

Well, "for evaluation purposes" is not "for production purposes." Perhaps
you need an English degree.

And to suggest to another that they use the TechNet license to avoid
paying license fees shows, in my opinion, that you absolutely do view this
use as for other than evaluation purposes. You're not complying with the
letter or the spirit of the agreement, as far as I am concerned.

Now, you can feel free to respond if you choose, but flame or otherwise, I
am not going to reply. It is clear already that you are, in my opinion, a
thief and that you know you're a thief. My post was intended to make
clear to the person you appeared to me to be encouraging to steal as I
believe you are, that what you appear to be encouraging them to do is
dishonest. It wasn't meant as chastisement at all to you. You are
already comfortable with your guilt. There's nothing I could do or care
to do about that.

Goodnight.

Dale

 

[Daze N. Knights]

And they aren't in any way time-limited? They remain good indefinitely,
even after your MSDN membership has long-expired?

 

[Dale]

MSDN licenses are perpetual.

Dale

And they aren't in any way time-limited? They remain good indefinitely,
even after your MSDN membership has long-expired?

 

[Dale]

From http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/ms772427.aspx:

"Each subscription license type entitles only the designated subscriber to
use evaluation software, support incidents and access the TechNet Benefits
Portal and Subscriber Downloads site - no other users are entitled to use
these resources."

That's why, even though I have MSDN and can install Vista 10 times as well,
I will be buying a full retail version of Vista Ultimate on January 30th for
the PC that my family uses. Even if I did choose to steal software for
myself, how could I live with myself sitting my wife, or my children, or my
grandchildren down to something I stole for them to use? I couldn't live
with it at all!


Dale

 

[Dale]

As I first said. Along with the "for evaluation purposes only" restriction,
there is a single user restriction as well. From
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/ms772427.aspx:

"Each subscription license type entitles only the designated subscriber to
use evaluation software, support incidents and access the TechNet Benefits
Portal and Subscriber Downloads site - no other users are entitled to use
these resources"

 

[Daze N. Knights]

MSDN are lifetime memberships? TechNet is an annual subscription? Does
this have any impact on whether or not the licenses to use software
obtained through one or the other is or is not time-limited?

 

[Tom Lake]

MSDN are lifetime memberships? TechNet is an annual subscription? Does this have
any impact on whether or not the licenses to use software obtained through one or
the other is or is not time-limited?

No, the membership in MSDN must be renewed annually. The license
to use the software downloaded from MSDN is perpetual.

Tom Lake

 

[Saucy]

Inline:

From http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/ms772427.aspx:

"Each subscription license type entitles only the designated subscriber to
use evaluation software, support incidents and access the TechNet Benefits
Portal and Subscriber Downloads site - no other users are entitled to use
these resources."

That's the deal. I've read the EULAs of Windows, Technet and MSDN. What
point is it you are trying to make?

That's why, even though I have MSDN and can install Vista 10 times as
well, I will be buying a full retail version of Vista Ultimate on January
30th for the PC that my family uses. Even if I did choose to steal
software for myself, how could I live with myself sitting my wife, or my
children, or my grandchildren down to something I stole for them to use?
I couldn't live with it at all!

Well, if you want to stay within the delineations of the MSDN EULA you will
not share the software with others. And your point is?

 

[Saucy]

The licenses are perpetual, the subscriptions are yearly. The subscription
gives you access to all the current offerings etc. etc. including the
software with the perpetual license. Once the subscription expires you no
longer receive the CDs, DVDs nor have access to the download site etc. But
the software you received has perpetual license and you can continue to use
what you received by post or downloaded. Although IANAL, I have come across
nothing that has contradicted that and I have read the various EULAs and
that is the common practice and Microsoft has never contradicted it in word
nor deed AFAIK.

 

[Dale]

MSDN is basically a one year subscription just as is TechNet. There are
some two-year licenses through the Open License program.

I don't know about the TechNet Direct software licenses but MSDN licensed
software can be used, within the original terms of the license,
perpetually - even after your subscription expires.

From the MSDN Licensing FAQ at
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/aa948864.aspx:

"When a subscription expires, do the licenses terminate or are they still
valid?
MSDN subscriptions have a perpetual license, so subscribers can still use
the products received with their MSDN subscription after their subscription
has expired."

I had to sign in to get to the link for that page so I don't know if you can
get to it without a subscription or not. I guess you probably can; I just
knew where to find the link in the protected pages.

Dale

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

The software is in all ways identical to retail software and operates
exactly the same way. The MSDN subscription concerns access to software
made available during the subscription period. The software downloaded is
restricted by the MSDN license to use the software. The expiration of the
MSDN subscription has no effect on these MSDN software licenses. They are
permanently restricted by the terms of the MSDN EULA in force when the
software was downloaded unless MS announces a change. The licenses remain
in effect even after the subscription expires.

 

[Robert Blacher]

I should NOT write this reply. I am an idiot for doing so. That said:

Dale:

You quoted from the TechNet Plus EULA. Let's take it phrase-by-phrase.

"You may use the evaluation software only to evaluate it."

Yup, that one is in plain English, albeit amazingly redundant -- you can
only evaluate our evaluation software? IMHO, it is legally meaningless and
intentionally unenforceable in all but the most ludicrous and egregious
cases of flagrant disregard of other provisions of the EULA, but ....


"You may not use it in a live operating, in a staging environment or with
data that has not been sufficiently backed up."

Oops, they should have run Word's grammar checker on that one. What is a
"live operating"? Did they mean "live operating environment"? Live
operating room (no surgeons allowed?).

Is "staging environment" a term of art in sufficiently wide usage that it
will be recognized and enforced by a court?

As for the last bit, about making sure your data is backed up, AHAH!, now we
have a clue as to how to construe this whole sentence! That's a CYA --
cover your butt -- because beta software is on TechNet and they don't want
to be sued by someone who blows away the records of a a Fortune 500 company
by running this on their accounting server there? So, don't use it in a
mission critical place and for, god's sake, back up your data is what that
sentence means and is intended to protect MS, not restrict the licensee.

So, the only meaningful sentence is the first one. And, that sentence is
meaningless. There ARE other parts of the EULA that are crystal clear and
provide MSFT's team of lawyers with plenty of ammunition to deal with piracy
that (somehow) originates with TechNet Plus downloads.

P.S. When you downloaded the CPP, if you did, do you remember agreeing to
the EXACT same language, complete with the same grammar errors?

The defense rests. Thank you for playing. :-}


P.P.S. PERSONALLY, I am violating NEITHER sentence, nor encouraging anyone
else to do so, and I am in full compliance with the meaningful terms of the
EULA. But, I think you understand that's not what this thread of msgs is
about anyway.

 

[Robert Blacher]

Good for you! I guess. I don't know who bought your MSDN license. I don't
care.

I own 4 computers -- I use 2, my wife uses 1 and my 18-year old uses 1.
FWIW, I will NOT let my family anywhere near Vista, including the RTM build.
I haven't frankly thought much about whether doing so would be a technical
violation of the TechNet (ooops, pun) EULA. Vista RTM ain't ready for my
wife and kid who do not take necessary precautions to protect themselves
from data loss.

Oh, dear Lord, flame suit is now on, not from Dale, but from the MSFT crew
of ... nevermind.

 

[Daze N. Knights]

Ah, yes. Thank you for clarifying that for me.

No, the membership in MSDN must be renewed annually. The license
to use the software downloaded from MSDN is perpetual.

Tom Lake