tray icon behavior

[CMM]

Every single application that utilizes a tray icon allows you to close its
main window without removing the tray icon. You can always close the whole
application by right-clicking on the tray icon. This has evolved to be
*standard behavior* Why doesn't Outlook 2003 (when "Hide when minimized"
option turned on) behave this way???? I always find myself closing the main
window only to find that I have completely shut Outlook down. I hate that.

 

[Diane Poremsky [MVP]]

see http://www.outlook-tips.net/archives/2004/20040907.htm for a way to help
prevent accidentally closing outlook

 

[CMM]

What a kludge. I'd rather not do this... I like being able to glance at the
Outbox folder icon and tell if I have stuff sitting there (because the
folder is "bold").... this renders that feature useless.

see http://www.outlook-tips.net/archives/2004/20040907.htm for a way to
help prevent accidentally closing outlook

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/

Every single application that utilizes a tray icon allows you to close
its main window without removing the tray icon. You can always close the
whole application by right-clicking on the tray icon. This has evolved to
be *standard behavior* Why doesn't Outlook 2003 (when "Hide when
minimized" option turned on) behave this way???? I always find myself
closing the main window only to find that I have completely shut Outlook
down. I hate that.

 

[Diane Poremsky [MVP]]

It beats accidentally closing outlook.

BTW - How does accidentally closing outlook fit in with the lack of menu
options on the tray icon?

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/

What a kludge. I'd rather not do this... I like being able to glance at
the Outbox folder icon and tell if I have stuff sitting there (because the
folder is "bold").... this renders that feature useless.

see http://www.outlook-tips.net/archives/2004/20040907.htm for a way to
help prevent accidentally closing outlook

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/

Every single application that utilizes a tray icon allows you to close
its main window without removing the tray icon. You can always close the
whole application by right-clicking on the tray icon. This has evolved
to be *standard behavior* Why doesn't Outlook 2003 (when "Hide when
minimized" option turned on) behave this way???? I always find myself
closing the main window only to find that I have completely shut Outlook
down. I hate that.

 

[Brian Tillman]

Every single application that utilizes a tray icon allows you to
close its main window without removing the tray icon. You can always
close the whole application by right-clicking on the tray icon.

Same with Outlook.

 

[CMM]

How so? There is no Exit or Close option in the tray icon menu... am I
missing something here?
And if you close the Outlook "Explorer" window you lose the icon and Outlook
completely unloads. If you have multiple Outlook "Explorer" windows open
(like you clicked on some folder and chose "Open in a New Window") you have
to be careful to to not close the very last Outlook window on your desktop.

All of this would be OK were it not for the fact that "tray applet" behavior
standards have evolved beyond this. Outlook violates all sorts of standard
UI Windows norms (at least in this regard... but probably others).

 

[Brian Tillman]

All of this would be OK were it not for the fact that "tray applet"
behavior standards have evolved beyond this. Outlook violates all
sorts of standard UI Windows norms (at least in this regard... but
probably others).

This is too funny. Since when do PC software vendors adhere to ANY industry
standards other than what they themselves define?

 

[CMM]

Well, I dunno about that. Cut/Copy/Paste is always in the Edit menu. And,
Minimize usually means minimize. IM clients (AIM, YIM, and even MS's IM)
foray into merging with the system tray initially had the "Hide when
Minimize" behavior similar to Outlook 2003's... but have since (for years
now) settled on the more intuitive Minimize means minimize and
close-means-close-window-but-not-app-in-the-tray.

Apparently the folks who develop Outlook don't run anything else on their
system to figure out the "right" way to do this.

 

[CMM]

It beats accidentally closing outlook.

BTW - How does accidentally closing outlook fit in with the lack of menu
options on the tray icon?

If you have Outlook set to "Hide when Minimized," which essentially turns it
into a (bad implementation of) system notification (tray) applet like IM
clients (AIM, Yahoo Messenger, Windows Messenger, etc), closing the main
Outlook window should not close Outlook as a whole.

NO other application that makes use of the tray behaves this way.

 

[Brian Tillman]

Well, I dunno about that. Cut/Copy/Paste is always in the Edit menu.

Copy/cut/paste is also always on Outlook's menu. The tray icon just doesn't
have such a menu.

And, Minimize usually means minimize.

That's Outlook's approach as well. For Outlook, however, Close also means
Close, while those IM clients you mention think they know better than the
user and subvert the meaning of the Close button.

IM clients (AIM, YIM, and even
MS's IM) foray into merging with the system tray initially had the
"Hide when Minimize" behavior similar to Outlook 2003's... but have
since (for years now) settled on the more intuitive Minimize means
minimize and close-means-close-window-but-not-app-in-the-tray.

So, they toy applications have decided they don't have to obey the user. No
wonder they're still toys.

Apparently the folks who develop Outlook don't run anything else on
their system to figure out the "right" way to do this.

The makers of Outlook have decided to continue doing the right thing, even
of the toy venders have not.

 

[CMM]

I disagree... and I don't think you've thought your post through. When you
double-click on the volume icon (the most standard and oldest "tray applet")
to open the mixer window, and then close the window, does your Volume icon
go away? It's not just IM "toy apps" it's *everything* that uses the system
notif area.

Besides, calling IM apps "toy apps" is subjective... we use IM in my
Development team a lot. Many would call Outlook a bloated toy app as well
(BTW, I wouldn't). This begs the question: is Outlook's implementation of a
tray icon "standard" and intuitive?... at least given the behavior of all
other apps that make use of the system notif area?

 

[Diane Poremsky [MVP]]

There is no UI standard on this - I wish there was as I have two apps that
load at boot and stay open on the screen until I minimize (-) the one to the
tray and X the other to the tray. The way I see it, if there were such a
standard, they both break it because they can't be minimized to tray on load
(without my assistance) and one breaks it because of the button I use.

 

[CMM]

I disagree. I think there is indeed a standard. I would say that if the
built-in standard Windows applets (Volume, Network Connection, Eject
Hardware, etc. etc.) DON'T unload when you close their main windows (the
Windows you get when you double-click on the icon) then that is pretty much
a standard. Outlook 2003 breaks away from that standard.

The only programs I have ever seen that implement the *Minimize* (-) besides
Outlook 2003 is BitComet (and very early versions of some of the IM clients
like YIM or AIM). Every other program I've ever seen (including my quite
Windows-hostile SonicWall VPN client) implement the "X" stay-loaded thing.

There is no UI standard on this - I wish there was as I have two apps that
load at boot and stay open on the screen until I minimize (-) the one to
the tray and X the other to the tray. The way I see it, if there were such
a standard, they both break it because they can't be minimized to tray on
load (without my assistance) and one breaks it because of the button I
use.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Need Help with Common Tasks? http://www.outlook-tips.net/beginner/

How so? There is no Exit or Close option in the tray icon menu... am I
missing something here?
And if you close the Outlook "Explorer" window you lose the icon and
Outlook completely unloads. If you have multiple Outlook "Explorer"
windows open (like you clicked on some folder and chose "Open in a New
Window") you have to be careful to to not close the very last Outlook
window on your desktop.

All of this would be OK were it not for the fact that "tray applet"
behavior standards have evolved beyond this. Outlook violates all sorts
of standard UI Windows norms (at least in this regard... but probably
others).

 

[Brian Tillman]

I disagree. I think there is indeed a standard. I would say that if
the built-in standard Windows applets (Volume, Network Connection,
Eject Hardware, etc. etc.) DON'T unload when you close their main
windows (the Windows you get when you double-click on the icon) then
that is pretty much a standard. Outlook 2003 breaks away from that
standard.

I think the difference may be whether or not the application is a service.
I didn't do a lot of testing, but it appears after a few tests that services
minimize to the tray when the X is clicked and non-service apps that allow
minimizing to the tray close when the X is clicked.

 

[CMM]

I don't disagree. As a developer I "get" the technical difference between a
service and an app. But from a user's POV this is a technical semantical
thing that has nothing to do with the user experience. After all, if you
have Outlook loaded 24/7 to notify you of Tasks and E-mail's, why can't it
be thought of as a "service" (semantically)?

Outlook 2003's implementation is just bad design. Pure and simply.

 

[Guest]

CMM, I agree, and I've been trying to get this done all night. I just
switched from Incredimail, which has the behavior of minimizing to the tray
when you close. I keep closing Outlook now and it's very frustrating. Did you
ever get a fix?

 

[CMM]

You can try this tool... http://www.cflashsoft.com/olload.htm it does what
you want (and then some). I wrote it a while ago for OL2000/2002.... It
works with OL2003 as well but having two icons in the tray is annoying and
you can't turn off Outlook's icon.

MS has in the last two or three years totally gone insane (not just with the
non-upgrade that is Office 2003 but also with Visual Studio 2005)... too
many cooks in the kitchen over there... too much "marketing department
driven" "non-innovations" that look splashy on paper but are of questionable
value in the real world.

They're in desperate need of a Steve Jobs type character to create an
atmosphere where quality and ATTENTION TO DETAIL trumps acronyms, vaporware,
and splashy useless new things that NOBODY uses.