Tools for creating a XPe image for a HP Compaq t5730 Thin Client

[pdonner]

I'm a newcomer in XPe development. If this is a FAQ, please kindly direct me
to the relevant information.

I'm setting up a development environment for the mentioned HP unit by using
microsoft tools. For application development I'm using Visual Studio 2005
Team Suite which I own through my MSDN Value subscription.

The HP t5730 comes with a Windows XPe license. Now I would like to expand
this base installation with my own programs and related XPe modules that the
programs rely on.

I would interpret the situation so that since HP has already paid for the
XPe license and I already own the tools for application development I
wouldn't need to pay anything for the creation of the new image with my
programs and the relevant XPe modules.

The XPe evaluation toolkit creates an image which is valid for a limited
time period. Can someone direct me to the tools/methods which would allow me
to create an image which takes advantage of the fact that the XPe license was
already paid by HP.

Thanks hp

 

[Raffaele Croci]

I'm a newcomer in XPe development. If this is a FAQ, please kindly direct me
to the relevant information.

I'm setting up a development environment for the mentioned HP unit by using
microsoft tools. For application development I'm using Visual Studio 2005
Team Suite which I own through my MSDN Value subscription.

The HP t5730 comes with a Windows XPe license. Now I would like to expand
this base installation with my own programs and related XPe modules that the
programs rely on.

I would interpret the situation so that since HP has already paid for the
XPe license and I already own the tools for application development I
wouldn't need to pay anything for the creation of the new image with my
programs and the relevant XPe modules.

The XPe evaluation toolkit creates an image which is valid for a limited
time period. Can someone direct me to the tools/methods which would allow me
to create an image which takes advantage of the fact that the XPe license was
already paid by HP.

Thanks hp

 

[crus]

hi pdonner,
to do a new XP embedded image a full Embedded Studio is required. The eval
version don't allow to insert the product key so it's a test bed only.
XPE licence that comes with HP device don't allow you to reuse the device
for a different purpose: this is my idea for that I know of licencing
conditions. MS people could give you a better reply.
Sorry but I don't see any way as the standard one.
Regards
Raffaele

 

[pdonner]

Thanks, Raffaele for your opinion. At the end of the form for downloading the
trial version I was adviced contact a partner organization in case I would be
interested in the full product. So I did just that. They aren't from MS but
their response contradicted what you wrote:

"Anyone who develops applications for a Windows system does not need the XPe
toolkit. He can write the SW in Visual Studio and if he makes sure the SW
works on the target device there is no licensing problem. HP have paid for
the XPe licence and that is all that is required."

So now I think your concluding statement seems to describe well the situation:

MS people could give you a better reply.

Greetings ph

 

[crus]

hi pdonner,
the reply you had from the organization is not opposite to mine.
They are a different way of handling the thing.
Yes you may use Visual Studio to write an application, both for XP PRO and
XPE you
don't need to pay licence for it, you don't need the Embedded Studio.
If HP embedded allows you to install your application you are done.
But if you want to do your own version of the operating system, you must
have the XPE Studio and licence
the new image.
To resume Visual Studio makes application programs, XPE tools make the OS
image.
Two corners of the question.
Regards
Raffaele

 

[pdonner]

Hi again. You are writing:

If HP embedded allows you to install your application you are done.
But if you want to do your own version of the operating system, you must
have the XPE Studio and licence the new image.

It seems to me that HP has a tool that allows us to do exactly that: HP
ThinState which was produced for image capture and redeployment.

Would however be inclined to think that

MS people could give you a better reply.

This is a matter which has an impact on the feasibility of my project and
the usefulness of Win XPe for this purpose. I understand that the MS
developers who are monitoring this newsgroup aren't all that well aware of
licensing issues, but maybe they should be able to relay my query to someone
who would be able to respond.

Thanks, ph

 

[Gordon Smith \(eMVP\)]

I work for a distributor (Avnet) so I have a pretty good idea about what's
going on here. I am, however, a technical person - not a licensing
specialist.

Two create a new image for the box (if allowed), you will need to purchase a
retail "Windows Embedded Studio" toolkit (aka "Target Designer" although
that's just one tool). The eval download cannot create non-expiring images.
You will also need the product ID. That # is HP's # and isn't printed on
your COA (license sticker aka certificate of authenticity). That PID
belongs to HP and tracks back to them from a legal/liability standpoint.
They aren't likely to give that to you.

The whole "Visual Studio" answer you received is only relavent to the
application build - not the OS build.

Furthermore, if want you want to do is build upon the image HP already
supplied to you, then you'd need to start with their SLX and SLD files which
they aren't likely to hand out as it would let their competitors have a
better understanding of what they do. What that means is that you'd be
building the image from scratch going through all of the effort that HP went
through to build their image. You would probably have to dig out the device
drivers, etc. out of the XPE build since I doubt they're supplied to you
independant from the XPE build.

In short, it's not a minor amount of work. Have you checked with HP to see
if they have a customization service? That might be the easier route for
you.

Are you just trying to add your applications (ie: all dependancies already
in the OS) or do you truely need to change the OS?

--Gordon Smith (eMVP)

 

[pdonner]

Thanks Gordon for your competent and thoughtful answer. You asked:

Are you just trying to add your applications (ie: all dependancies
already in the OS) or do you truely need to change the OS?

The image that HP supplies on the thin client is a minimal version of the
OS. The applications I aim at designing depend on a machinery which is much
more extensive. The manufacturer of the framework says that they have checked
that it works on XPe, but I really need to expand the OS before their
framework will work.

Have you checked with HP to see if they have a customization service?
That might be the easier route for you.

Yes they do. They offer a service provided by Altiris which is supposed to
take care of the customization. I tried to install the Altiris programs on my
development workstation. The result was so disastrous that my installation
had to undergo a major repair before I was back in the game.

I also feel uncomfortable with the idea that HP + Altiris will produce a
situation where some of the modules needed will be missing. HP offers many
kinds of packages (e.g. DirectX modules) to extend the OS. This could
possible be enough, but the MS tool would for sure provide all that I need.

Decided to purchase a cheap workstation for manipulation of the image
(without risking my development workstation) and thought it would be wise to
rely on Microsoft tools in changing the XPe image. -- So here I am.

Also purchased an external drive and created a mechanism which allows me to
quickly swap Vista installations (so now I think that I could undergo yet a
few more Altiris disasters without too much pain).

You wrote that Avnet is selling Windows Embedded Studio. WES doesn't seem to
be included in my MSDN Value subscription, which apparently only covers the
application build tools. Can you kindly give me a rough idea of the expense
involved for purchase of WES.

According to your explanation this seems, however, to create yet another
problem: I have to purchase a new PID for every image that I create with the
MS tools. Is this correct?

Friendly greetings, ph

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 

[Gordon Smith \(eMVP\)]

You wrote that Avnet is selling Windows Embedded Studio. WES doesn't seem
to
be included in my MSDN Value subscription, which apparently only covers
the
application build tools. Can you kindly give me a rough idea of the
expense
involved for purchase of WES.

According to your explanation this seems, however, to create yet another
problem: I have to purchase a new PID for every image that I create with
the
MS tools. Is this correct?

Friendly greetings, ph

The retail price of a toolkit (USD) is $995. You will definitely need a PID
to create a non-expiring image. I'm not 100% sure after that single runtime
purchase if you will to throw out the already purchased (through HP)
licenses on the box as you receive them today. I could certainly get a
licensing expert here at Avnet involved to help clarify.

Feel free to contact me offline and we'll pursue what's right for you
(gordon DOT smith AT avnet DOT com).

Thanks,
Gordon Smith (eMVP)