This is an example of why Linux loses.

[Cynic]

Did that include the "Big names" (Red Hat, Suse, etc.) ? I can believe
that some of the niche distrobutions would have limited support but
I've found the major players are pretty good.

I used to use Red Hat, but was advised that other systems are far more
"plug and play" and so my most receent try was with one I was
recommended at the time, which was the Debian release. I have never
purchased a commercial install no, and might try it - all my Linux
attempts have been with free downloads. As said, the use as servers
(about 8 years ago) was great (until I suffered a huge hacking
problem).

Well, I can only pass on my experience with Mandriva which has been
good. I would never go as far as to say you won't have *any* problems
but, given the list of cards you have had problems with, I can only
assume you either have fairly unusual hardware or have only tried
unusual linux versions,

You are at least replying helpfully and politely, and I *would* like
to get a workable Linux system running. How much is Mandriva, and
where's the best place to buy? My primary IDE it to a caddy, and so
it is easy for me to install a variety of OSs on different HDDs -
something that I prefer to a multi-boot system (in case the boot goes
wrong and I lose the lot!)

 

[Cynic]

After takin' a swig o' grog, Cynic belched out this bit o' wisdom:


The Win TV card is easy. When I popped one into my Debian desktop,
"discover" picked up on it and loaded the bt878 driver, and now I see it
as another audio/video device in my volume control applications and
media players. I didn't have to do a damn thing.

Odd. Its the Debian release I have installed on one of my removable
HDDs. I've since swapped to using a USB version of WinTV because I
needed the PCI slot for something else (another IDE card). Since
Debian did not recognise or install any drivers for my M/B USB
chipset, I can't use *any* USB devices with it.

 

[Cynic]

Not to mention that one of the more mainstream Linux distros -- say,
Ubuntu or SuSE or MEPIS -- doesn't need any additional driver installation
for any of those mentioned items.

Strange. Someone else said that there was no Linux driver yet
available for one of those items, and I did not give sufficient
details about at least two others for you to be able to make such a
pronouncement.

 

[Michael Cargill]

You are at least replying helpfully and politely, and I *would* like
to get a workable Linux system running. How much is Mandriva, and
where's the best place to buy?

You can get it from here:
http://www.mandriva.com/

There is a free version to download and it is probably worth trying to get
it working using that before going ahead and buying it - I don't think that
there is a great deal of difference between them other than a few extras
like the Nvidia drivers and Acrobat Reader being in-the-box with the bought
version.

I was using it early last year cos I wanted a new toy for a while but for
some reason the sound kept dissapearing after a while. Happened on two
different versions (this was during the Mandrake/Mandriva crossover) and
even after completely reinstalling it.

It was a bit of fun and I learnt a bit (got very familiar with the
installation process!) but it did irk me that some things seemed to be more
tricky than they really needed to be. Obviously the main problem is that I
am not used to it but these days I get fed up with even fixing any problems
on a system that I know, let alone learning a new one.

 

[Cynic]

Linux servers on 286's eh?

Yes. I've been in the business for a bit longer than you might have
thought. My first PC based application program ran on an 8086 IBM PC
with a green and black text-only screen, but I wrote my first computer
program 15 years before that. I've even got a couple of the '286
Linux machines in the storeroom. You're welcome to come and take
them. Also got a couple of CP/M systems running on on Z80's with
*two* 8 inch floppy drives as storage (luxury), but I'll keep those
(sentimental value).

 

[JEDIDIAH]

Sure - "If Linux don't support it, it can't be a real RAID card".

They work. They just aren't really RAID cards. They are
IDE or SATA cards with RAID implemented in software. They're the
RAID equivalent of winmodems.

OTOH, the RAID controller embedded into the motherboard(s)
on my Myth boxes have no problem using all of the IDE and SATA
interfaces (8 in total) under Linux.

Linux already has that, has had it for a long time too.

Doesn't help me I'm afraid. All I know is that it runs a striped two
disk array perfectly OK under Windoze, with the driver install being
a 5 minute job. There may be a Linux driver for it - I probably only

For a real RAID controller there will be no "intallation"
procedure just like there won't be one for the audio or firewire or
video. They will "just work".

spent 15 minutes searching because I'd already taken hours to get that
far. I didn't have to do any searching for the Windoze driver - it
came on the CD with the card.



Yes - I get that all the time when I mention Linux driver problems. I

You would get the EXACT SAME RESPONSE from Dell support
based on your approach.

[deletia]

 

[Guest]

Yes. I've been in the business for a bit longer than you might have
thought. My first PC based application program ran on an 8086 IBM PC
with a green and black text-only screen, but I wrote my first computer
program 15 years before that. I've even got a couple of the '286
Linux machines in the storeroom.

Interesting, really. You should tell Linus Torvalds, as those never existed
Linux needs a 386 *minimum*

So much for your credibility

 

[John Anderton]

You are at least replying helpfully and politely, and I *would* like
to get a workable Linux system running. How much is Mandriva, and
where's the best place to buy?

It depends what you want to pay. I'm currently running Mandriva
limited edition 2005
(http://www.softpedia.com/get/UNIX/Distributions/Mandriva-Linux.shtml
or
http://www.mandriva.com/en/download/otherdownloads/2005iso) which is
free.


There's also Mandriva Linux free
(http://www.mandriva.com/en/download/free) which is also, obviously,
free and I assume is an update of the software above but I haven't
tried it myself.

Or there are versions you can pay for and get additional software
(http://www.mandriva.com/en/download) and support. Again, I haven't
tried those.

One word of warning on the free stuff though. There are a lot of
packages on the 3 (LE 2005) CDs but I have a vague recollection that
when I tried to install some extra software that was listed as
available, it wasn't on the CDs and I had to extra online software
sources to get everything listed. I foolishly choose this moment to
run a software update so I can't currently list the extra sources at
present,

Cheers,

John

 

[John Anderton]

It depends what you want to pay. I'm currently running Mandriva
limited edition 2005
(http://www.softpedia.com/get/UNIX/Distributions/Mandriva-Linux.shtml
or
http://www.mandriva.com/en/download/otherdownloads/2005iso) which is
free.


There's also Mandriva Linux free
(http://www.mandriva.com/en/download/free) which is also, obviously,
free and I assume is an update of the software above but I haven't
tried it myself.

Or there are versions you can pay for and get additional software
(http://www.mandriva.com/en/download) and support. Again, I haven't
tried those.

One word of warning on the free stuff though. There are a lot of
packages on the 3 (LE 2005) CDs but I have a vague recollection that
when I tried to install some extra software that was listed as
available, it wasn't on the CDs and I had to extra online software
sources to get everything listed. I foolishly choose this moment to
run a software update so I can't currently list the extra sources at
present,

Damn fingers

Last paragraph should read :

One word of warning on the free stuff though. There are a lot of
packages on the 3 (LE 2005) CDs but I have a vague recollection that
when I tried to install some extra software that was listed as
available, it wasn't on the CDs and I had to add extra online software
sources to get everything listed. I foolishly chose this moment to
run a software update so I can't list the extra sources at
present,

 

[Linonut]

After takin' a swig o' grog, Cynic belched out this bit o' wisdom:

Odd. Its the Debian release I have installed on one of my removable
HDDs. I've since swapped to using a USB version of WinTV because I
needed the PCI slot for something else (another IDE card). Since
Debian did not recognise or install any drivers for my M/B USB
chipset, I can't use *any* USB devices with it.

What the hell chipset is it, then? Debian is really good at probing for
hardware.

What's the motherboard make and model number?

 

[JEDIDIAH]

[deletia]
Strange. Someone else said that there was no Linux driver yet
available for one of those items, and I did not give sufficient
details about at least two others for you to be able to make such a
pronouncement.

I believe that this is as much as anyone needs to know.

 

[flatfish+++]

The only problem now is the "mixing" - or lack thereof. If I'm playing
some music and something happens that would normally alert me with
sound... the alert sound never gets played. Seems that when one
application has the sound device open then nothing else can access it.
This isn't a big deal but it would be nice for multiple apps to "share"
the sound.

Welcome to Linux and the .asoundrc file.
One of Linux's dirty little secrets is the fact that playing 2 sounds at
once can be a bit tricky.

It depends on the distribution, the card, the ALSA version and of course
the .asoundrc file.

Sound/Audio with Linux is a mess.

FWIW Windows does this with ease.

 

[Linonut]

After takin' a swig o' grog, Cynic belched out this bit o' wisdom:

Yes. I've been in the business for a bit longer than you might have
thought. My first PC based application program ran on an 8086 IBM PC
with a green and black text-only screen, but I wrote my first computer
program 15 years before that. I've even got a couple of the '286
Linux machines in the storeroom. You're welcome to come and take
them. Also got a couple of CP/M systems running on on Z80's with
*two* 8 inch floppy drives as storage (luxury), but I'll keep those
(sentimental value).

You just blew your game open, Cynic. Even though there seems to have
been some effort at backporting to the 286, back when you were using a
286, there was no Linux kernel for it.

Now I'm realllllllly cynical.

See the sig.

 

[JEDIDIAH]

It depends what you want to pay. I'm currently running Mandriva
limited edition 2005

Paying for your copy of Desktop Linux won't help. It
never has really. Even the stable version of Debian has gotten
to the point where it is the equal of anything else in terms
of hardware support.

[deletia]

Many things will be automagically supported.

Some things will be completely unsupported.

Others may be a bit of a pain.

If you can tell a Dell tech support drone, or
a Linux Zealot in COLA what that hardware is, chances
are that Google will tell you if it's usable and how
problematic installing that hardware will be.

At this point, you can shop highly integrated
PC motherboards based primarily on the video chipset
embedded thereon.

 

[JEDIDIAH]

After takin' a swig o' grog, Cynic belched out this bit o' wisdom:


What the hell chipset is it, then? Debian is really good at probing for
hardware.

Just by amazing coincidence, that's really the only
WinTV hardware variant that doesn't have good support under
Linux.

What's the motherboard make and model number?

Yes, that would be interesting. I wasn't aware that
there were any mobo USB controllers not supported by Linux.
Aren't there something on the order of only 2 or 3 variants
to begin with.

 

[flatfish+++]

Try it over a remote connection where you only have a couple-k of spare
bandwidth to use.

I know which I'd prefer.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Cynic]

... these days I get fed up with even fixing any problems
on a system that I know, let alone learning a new one.

Yes, I know the feeling! Learning to drive the Linux on my Dreambox
(a satellite receiver) was quite good fun though, figuring out how to
load decryption modules and stream the video stream to my PC'c HDD via
the network etc.

 

[Cynic]

It depends what you want to pay. I'm currently running Mandriva
limited edition 2005
(http://www.softpedia.com/get/UNIX/Distributions/Mandriva-Linux.shtml
or
http://www.mandriva.com/en/download/otherdownloads/2005iso) which is
free.


There's also Mandriva Linux free
(http://www.mandriva.com/en/download/free) which is also, obviously,
free and I assume is an update of the software above but I haven't
tried it myself.

Or there are versions you can pay for and get additional software
(http://www.mandriva.com/en/download) and support. Again, I haven't
tried those.

Thanks for that. Working on the basis that you tend to get what you
pay for (within reason), I'll pay for a version, download it & give it
a try over the weekend. That'll also give me some support. I will
definitely be needing the nvidia drivers. Thanks for the links - most
helpful.

 

[Cynic]

You would get the EXACT SAME RESPONSE from Dell support
based on your approach.

I am fortunate not to own a Dell in that case.

"Hello, tech support - I am having problems installing X"
"Oh - I find that very hard to believe because I've never had a
problem with X. Goodbye."

Do they think people call them for fun and *pretend* to have a
problem?

 

[Cynic]

What the hell chipset is it, then? Debian is really good at probing for
hardware.
What's the motherboard make and model number?

It's a Neo MB - I don't recall the model and don't want to take the
cover off right now. Uses a single Intel Pentium running at 2.4GHz
with 1GB RAM. 2 IDE ports on the MB and two dual IDE PCI controllers,
one with RAID. Realtek ethernet (Linux loads that OK), but the
onboard sound chips are disabled and the Creative X-Fi card used
instead. I need a lot of storage (lots of HD video work). No
graphics chips on the MB. G-Force graphics card (nvidia driver), 2
removable HDDs, one on the primary master to carry the OS, and 4 500GB
drives in the case. I bought the MB about 3 years ago (built up the
PC myself). The USB uses an Intel 80821 DB/DBV host controller
driver, and there are 3 sets of dual USB host ports on the M/B.

I'll buy a Mandriva version online and try that - hopefully not a
waste of money. I was going to do it tonight but just remembered my
credit card is currently stopped due to it being skimmed earlier this
month and the replacement won't be here until Monday or Tuesday. so
I'll try then.

Thanks for your reply.